A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    Almost every single post for weeks has been about the impending government shutdown and of course since October 1st, the actual government shutdown.

    By now, almost every single poster must have formed an opinion as to how the government shutdown is going to end.

    I would like this thread to be posts about how posters believe this shutdown is going to end and your reasons why.

     

    p.s. This is different then how you think it SHOULD end. That is a different thread. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    Almost every single post for weeks has been about the impending government shutdown and of course since October 1st, the actual government shutdown.

    By now, almost every single poster must have formed an opinion as to how the government shutdown is going to end.

    I would like this thread to be posts about how posters believe this shutdown is going to end and your reasons why.

     

    p.s. This is different then how you think it SHOULD end. That is a different thread. 

     



    No its not different then what I posted in SHOULD end.

    It starts today with the GOP leadership meeting at the White House.

    Obama cracked open the door with his offer with a shortertem CR and Debt Ceiling solution for a committed promise to negotiate on budget and even ACA improvements

    Boehner indicated the door was open to such an offer

    Both sides win, both save face.

    Now just do it, and negotiate something of value over the next 3-6 months.

    Once a leader gets off their soapbox and looks at the issues the motivation and potential brokered solutions it all becomes easy.  Maybe with the pending apocalypse of a default the Spirits of Reagan and O'Neil vistied the President.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?


    It will end with enough of the business communtity joining together and putting the monster they helped create (Tea Party), back in its cage.  Boehner may get some token concession to help him save his political carcass, but it won't be anything to do with Obamacare.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    I think it should end by all our elected officials admitting to the facts of the constitution, principally, that they are co-equal branches, and must behave as such.  

    Then, I want our politicians to admit to another inconvenient fact, that they work for we the people.  I think there has been plenty of display fo the opposite principle in effect:  i.e. , shutting down the monuments on the mall to citizens while opening the mall at the other end for illegals.  This warped view has got to stop.  So, a heart felt pronouncement from our politicians, all of them, that theywork for us.  Ifthey can't do that convincingly, then, time for them to seek employment elsewhere.

    Then a group hug.  Seriously.  nothing is going to get done until they realize that they are in it together, with us, the people.  Enough of this two sets of books, two sets of rules.  We all perish or thrive by the same rules.

    Finally, I expect the politicians to take a long, hard look at what they are doing.  For example, foisting Obamacare on a people that have always been against it, and defund it.  Not because it is wrong necessarily, but because they went about it wrong.  Un-ring the bell.  It is not often we have suc ha chance.

    Having done the above, I expect Obamacare to be defunded, but I also expect an honest discussion to occur on how to best meet the needs of the people in terms of healthcare, a real debate, with Republicans coming to the table, a real sharing of issues, not the non-debate set up by a President flush with the trappings of power and rich on election rhetoric.

    People:  This is not about winning or losing, this is about doing the right thing.  Right now, our governemnt is not doing the right thing, behaving as promised, and doing so within the limits set by the consitution.

    Time to change that.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to bigdog2's comment:


    After learning today that the Obamacare website, that is still not working and a disaster, cost over $600 Million.................the shutdown will end with a One-Year delay for people/citizens to sign up.  A waiver for the folks, similar to the one for business, unions, etc



    Fox is reporting the cost at $93m.  Someone needs to reissue the daily talking points.

     

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/09/3-million-obamacare-website-may-face-months-glitches-experts-warn/

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    Dems and Obama will use judgement over vindictive politics and agree to compromise!

    The lawmakers representing their constituents will demand it as this one tries to:

    From the Washington Post:

    Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) had what some colleagues called "a heated exchange" and what she described as "a conversation" with President Obama during a White House meeting Wednesday afternoon regarding the District's budget constraints as a result of the partial government shutdown.

    Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.). (Post)

    Norton attended the meeting in the White House East Room with nearly 200 House Democrats and was one of a handful given the opportunity to ask the president a question. When she was called upon, Norton pressed Obama to support a House-passed bill that would permit the District to use its locally raised tax funds to maintain operations until Dec. 15.

    Democrats, including Obama, have held fast in opposition to such piecemeal funding bills, saying Republicans must come to a deal to fund the entire government, not just favored segments.

    Making her point, Norton spoke over the president and refused to yield the microphone, according to a lawmaker who attended the event. The lawmaker described Norton as "strident," "self-absorbed" and "parochial" in her exchange with Obama.

    But Obama held firm to his belief that Republicans should work to reopen the entire federal government and not pass stand-alone spending measures, said the lawmaker, who asked not to be identified in order to speak frankly and maintain relationships with colleagues.

    Norton confirmed in an interview that she pressed Obama to support the bill and that she doesn't care whether some colleagues felt uncomfortable about the exchange.

    "I wasn’t picking a fight with the president, I think the people of the District would expect me to have a conversation with him rather than just asking a question," Norton said.

    While most lawmakers might not interrupt Obama as he answered their question, Norton said she was compelled to interject when Obama suggested in his response to her that the budget crunch facing the District is similar to how other congressional districts are adjusting during the shutdown.

    "That demanded that I give a response," she said. "Obviously we’re the only District in the United States. We’re uniquely in this position."

    Norton insisted she meant no disrespect towards the president. "He’s a big boy and I’m a big girl," she said.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     


    After learning today that the Obamacare website, that is still not working and a disaster, cost over $600 Million.................the shutdown will end with a One-Year delay for people/citizens to sign up.  A waiver for the folks, similar to the one for business, unions, etc

     



    Fox is reporting the cost at $93m.  Someone needs to reissue the daily talking points.

     

     

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/09/3-million-obamacare-website-may-face-months-glitches-experts-warn/



    93 million is still in the range of a tousand times what it should cost.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     


    After learning today that the Obamacare website, that is still not working and a disaster, cost over $600 Million.................the shutdown will end with a One-Year delay for people/citizens to sign up.  A waiver for the folks, similar to the one for business, unions, etc

     



    Fox is reporting the cost at $93m.  Someone needs to reissue the daily talking points.

     

     

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/09/3-million-obamacare-website-may-face-months-glitches-experts-warn/

     

    (QUOTE)


     

    Sorry pal.........I know you and your ilk like to think that we use "talking points", we don`t.

    We use facts, see:

    "The exact cost to build Healthcare.gov, according to U.S. government records, appears to have been $634,320,919, which we paid to a company you probably never heard of: CGI Federal.  The company originally won the contract back in 2011, but at that time, the cost was expected to run “up to” $93.7 million – still a chunk of change, but nothing near where it ended up."

     



    The government records indicate that that is the cost for 10 years, as per airborne's post in the other thread.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     


    After learning today that the Obamacare website, that is still not working and a disaster, cost over $600 Million.................the shutdown will end with a One-Year delay for people/citizens to sign up.  A waiver for the folks, similar to the one for business, unions, etc

     



    Fox is reporting the cost at $93m.  Someone needs to reissue the daily talking points.

     

     

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/09/3-million-obamacare-website-may-face-months-glitches-experts-warn/

     

    (QUOTE)


     

    Sorry pal.........I know you and your ilk like to think that we use "talking points", we don`t.

    We use facts, see:

    "The exact cost to build Healthcare.gov, according to U.S. government records, appears to have been $634,320,919, which we paid to a company you probably never heard of: CGI Federal.  The company originally won the contract back in 2011, but at that time, the cost was expected to run “up to” $93.7 million – still a chunk of change, but nothing near where it ended up."

     

     



    The government records indicate that that is the cost for 10 years, as per airborne's post in the other thread.

     



    Still an order of magnitude above where it should be.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to bigdog2's comment:


    airborne is wrong as always.  Guess you missed this line from the GOVERNMENT agency report:  "which we paid"




     

    This is his post. I'll let you fight it with him. I'm not getting sucked down a rabbit hole...

     

     

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    That $634 million for the exchange is the cost over the complete lifecycle of the project which is 10yrs or about $63 mil/yr.

    So let's look at the comparison to:

    Facebook  6yrs/$600 million = $100mil/yr

    Twitter      5yrs/$360 million =  $72/mil   (not including $400 mill in 2011)

     

    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange IT Investment

    FY2013 (CY) Spending = $63.68 M

    Time frame of Investment  = 2011 - 2020

    This Exhibit 300 represents a summary of the current IT investments undertaken by HHS and Treasury to implement the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA). It includes the CMS Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight (CCIIO) Healthcare Insurance Exchange (HIX) investment and a set of major and non-major IT Investments managed by Treasury and IRS that provide support for ACA. HIX provides a platform for organizing the health insurance marketplace to help consumers and small businesses shop for coverage in a way that permits easy comparison of available plan options based on price, benefits and services, and quality.

    https://www.itdashboard.gov/investment?buscid=961

     

     

    * EDIT

    Actually the projected cost over the 10yr life cycle is $516.34 mil. or $118 mil less than the wingnut echo chamber article, which adds in Medicare spending etc.


    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange Federal Exchange Program System=$249.33 M

    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange Data Services Hub=$267.01 M

     

    So the revised figures are:

    $516.34 mil / 10 yrs = $51.634/yr

    or about half of Facebook burn rate and 2/3 of twitter burn rate.

    I apologize for the error.

     

    Can one of you wingnuts check my math?

     




     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Ya, thanks for encouraging the village idiot ...



    I'm not the one to find either set of data so I'm not planting my standards on either hill.

     

    Seems more likely that your information is correct, but don't really want to fight it out (though even as a yearly figure it does seem rather high).

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    So, in addition to people who know very little about health care insurance trying to dictate public policy about health insurance...

    ...now we have people who know very little about IT business services - security administration, networking, relational databases - trying to second-guess highly complex systems from the outside in (and which may involve highly sensitive personal data).  The government has many more rules about this stuff than commercial business does.

    How much it costs is even more arcane a topic.

     

    That said, as a longtime IT consultant myself, I can only surmise that the people who implemented the website are working 24/7 to update the software ASAP.  I've been called in to fight fires on projects like this, and it's not fun or easy.  And for their own sake, I can only hope the govt shutdown did not affect the contractor's ability to fix the mess they're in.

    Anybody upgrade to iOS 7 lately...??

     

    I also know for a fact that most of the individual state exchanges are running smoothly and on schedule...which may or may not be related to size/scope of those releases.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

    According to Digital Trends, CGI Federal received $634,320,919 to construct Healthcare.gov — or more than the amount spent building Linkedin ($200 million) and Spotify ($288 million) combined.

    The site also cost more than it took to initially create Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, according to the report.

    These comparisons are meaningless to the point of insanity.  Literally, it does not compute.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     

    According to Digital Trends, CGI Federal received $634,320,919 to construct Healthcare.gov — or more than the amount spent building Linkedin ($200 million) and Spotify ($288 million) combined.

    The site also cost more than it took to initially create Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, according to the report.

     

     

    These comparisons are meaningless to the point of insanity.  Literally, it does not compute.

     




     

    Tell it to the Govt agency that put it together.  You may also complain to Fox News, Fox Business News, the Boston Herald, the Drudge Report, and all the other (very credible) media outlets that are reporting it today.

    I`m sure they`ll listen to you.  After all, you are an expert posting on an anonoymous message board.



    I'll tell it to anyone who facetiously assumes that all websites and business systems are the same.

    Either way, the comparisons are a joke...

    ...as are arguments based upon them.

     

    How "credible" those news sources are is a separate question entirely.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    I also know for a fact that most of the individual state exchanges are running smoothly and on schedule...which may or may not be related to size/scope of those releases. 

    Early Tuesday the glitches were apparent, as consumers in Illinois, Texas and Idaho, to name a few states, were greeted by a message saying their sites were down.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

     


    airborne is wrong as always.  Guess you missed this line from the GOVERNMENT agency report:  "which we paid"

     




     

     

    This is his post. I'll let you fight it with him. I'm not getting sucked down a rabbit hole...

     

     

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    That $634 million for the exchange is the cost over the complete lifecycle of the project which is 10yrs or about $63 mil/yr.

    So let's look at the comparison to:

    Facebook  6yrs/$600 million = $100mil/yr

    Twitter      5yrs/$360 million =  $72/mil   (not including $400 mill in 2011)

     

    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange IT Investment

    FY2013 (CY) Spending = $63.68 M

    Time frame of Investment  = 2011 - 2020

    This Exhibit 300 represents a summary of the current IT investments undertaken by HHS and Treasury to implement the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA). It includes the CMS Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight (CCIIO) Healthcare Insurance Exchange (HIX) investment and a set of major and non-major IT Investments managed by Treasury and IRS that provide support for ACA. HIX provides a platform for organizing the health insurance marketplace to help consumers and small businesses shop for coverage in a way that permits easy comparison of available plan options based on price, benefits and services, and quality.

    https://www.itdashboard.gov/investment?buscid=961

     

     

    * EDIT

    Actually the projected cost over the 10yr life cycle is $516.34 mil. or $118 mil less than the wingnut echo chamber article, which adds in Medicare spending etc.


    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange Federal Exchange Program System=$249.33 M

    CMS CCIIO Healthcare Insurance Exchange Data Services Hub=$267.01 M

     

    So the revised figures are:

    $516.34 mil / 10 yrs = $51.634/yr

    or about half of Facebook burn rate and 2/3 of twitter burn rate.

    I apologize for the error.

     

    Can one of you wingnuts check my math?

     

     



    So, the math check:

     

    It is an apples to oranges comparison.  Facebook is not like an exchange in anything but a superficial way, i.e. they are both websites.

    But, continuing to play with numbers,  Facebook services 1.11 BILLION unique users each month. At a $100,000,000 budget per year, that's 9 cents per user.

    If the purpose of Obamacare is to force people to get coverage, and there qre 30 million without coverage, and the annual cost forthe website is 60 million, then the cost is $2.00 per user, or 22 times the cost efficiency of Facebook.

    doing back of the envelope, so someone please check the math.

     




     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    So, in addition to people who know very little about health care insurance trying to dictate public policy about health insurance...

    ...now we have people who know very little about IT business services - security administration, networking, relational databases - trying to second-guess highly complex systems from the outside in (and which may involve highly sensitive personal data).  The government has many more rules about this stuff than commercial business does.

    How much it costs is even more arcane a topic.

     

    That said, as a longtime IT consultant myself, I can only surmise that the people who implemented the website are working 24/7 to update the software ASAP.  I've been called in to fight fires on projects like this, and it's not fun or easy.  And for their own sake, I can only hope the govt shutdown did not affect the contractor's ability to fix the mess they're in.

    Anybody upgrade to iOS 7 lately...??

     

    I also know for a fact that most of the individual state exchanges are running smoothly and on schedule...which may or may not be related to size/scope of those releases.

     

     



    May I second that Matty.

    My husband has been senior software engineer for a long time. When new projects are rolled out, despite everything that has been done to avoid bugs, etc., he has often gotton calls in the middle of the night, on the weekend, etc., to work on the new project to put out one or more fires himself.

    Looking not at the mico, but the macro of this immense rollout, anybody in IT I am sure expected there were going to be problems. I would have been absolutely astounded if there were not.

    As you pointed out, the websites involving individual state exchanges are running smoothly and on schedule.

    However, the majority of the exchanges involve federal exchanges and and that is where the problems are.

    On top of this, contrary to the ongoing chant that people do not want Obamacare, the sites have been jammed with people who DO want Obamacare. Even sites that run perfectly well, when jammed, will crash.

    In addition, we do not know the demographics yet of those who are signing up for Obamacare. Specicfically, how computer literate they are. Nor do most of us know how computer friendly the websites are. These two factors could certainly be adding to the problems.

    I am sure with some time and patience, this will all get straightened out. IT people are amazing at fixing problems given the opportunity.

    Less we forget, people have until December 15th to get insured by January 1st. (That is OVER two months away.) They have until April 1st as an overall deadline.

    p.s. of course this has nothing to do with the title of the thread. The thread seems to have run off course...nothing new.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: A SURVEY: HOW DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    So, in addition to people who know very little about health care insurance trying to dictate public policy about health insurance...

    ...now we have people who know very little about IT business services - security administration, networking, relational databases - trying to second-guess highly complex systems from the outside in (and which may involve highly sensitive personal data).  The government has many more rules about this stuff than commercial business does.

    How much it costs is even more arcane a topic.

     

    That said, as a longtime IT consultant myself, I can only surmise that the people who implemented the website are working 24/7 to update the software ASAP.  I've been called in to fight fires on projects like this, and it's not fun or easy.  And for their own sake, I can only hope the govt shutdown did not affect the contractor's ability to fix the mess they're in.

    Anybody upgrade to iOS 7 lately...??

     

    I also know for a fact that most of the individual state exchanges are running smoothly and on schedule...which may or may not be related to size/scope of those releases.

     

     



    Ever notice how the closer you are to a news story that you know the facts about, due to your actual expertise or real knowledge of the more you realize that the media just doesn't get it.

    The media right their stories based on the stroy they want to tell not on the basis of the facts.

     
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