AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

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    AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

    Some good, some bad...some worse.  The overall study is fascinating, and the methodology is sound.  Yet, I would still like to hear some other experts in the field break it down.

     

    "Conclusions and Relevance  From 1990 to 2010, the United States made substantial progress in improving health. Life expectancy at birth and HALE increased, all-cause death rates at all ages decreased, and age-specific rates of years lived with disability remained stable. However, morbidity and chronic disability now account for nearly half of the US health burden, and improvements in population health in the United States have not kept pace with advances in population health in other wealthy nations.

    The United States spends the most per capita on health care across all countries, lacks universal health coverage, and lags behind other high-income countries for life expectancy and many other health outcome measures. High costs with mediocre population health outcomes at the national level are compounded by marked disparities across communities, socioeconomic groups, and race and ethnicity groups. Although overall life expectancy has slowly risen, the increase has been slower than for many other high-income countries. In addition, in some US counties, life expectancy has decreased in the past 2 decades, particularly for women.Decades of health policy and legislative initiatives have been directed at these challenges; a recent example is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is intended to address issues of access, efficiency, and quality of care and to bring greater emphasis to population health outcomes. There have also been calls for initiatives to address determinants of poor health outside the health sector including enhanced tobacco control initiatives, the food supply, physical environment, and socioeconomic inequalities.

     

    ...."

    To quote one health care researcher:

    "So how did we do compared to other countries? Not well. Between 1990 and 2010, among the 34 countries in the OECD, the US dropped from 18th to 27th in age-standardized death rate. The US dropped from 23rd to 28th for age-standardized years of life lost. It dropped from 20th to 27th in life expectancy at birth. It dropped from 14th to 26th for healthy life expectancy. The only bit of good news was that the US only dropped from 5th to 6th in years lived with disability."

    http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/the-state-of-us-health-aint-so-good/

    [emphasis mine]

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    Yea we suck.

    Do they tally in the war deaths?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Yea we suck.

    Do they tally in the war deaths?



    Yes, we kinda suck, but you're not paying attention.

    These are rankings of outcomes from our existing health care services...

    ...poor results for which we are paying way, way more than other OECD countries.

     

    More proof that "we have the best health care in the world" gibberish is just a sad, expensive lie.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy. Really, this argument is scientific fraud worthy of a "denier". 

    How does the health care system prevent traffic deaths, smoking, obesity, murders, accidents etc.etc. It is a free country, we can do what we want for the most part, even if it kills us.

    It is a lie told to gin up support for more money for health care, mostly from taxpayers. It is political propaganda.

    How about we ask civil engineers how the infrastructure is doing? Not well at all I bet they would find. Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy. Really, this argument is scientific fraud worthy of a "denier". 

     



    OMG...I am just shaking my head in disbelief over that statement...really..just shaking my head. What is that about "deniers"?

    Further..how can you even hope to have a converstation..let alone a debate about the pros and cons of our health care system with someone so rooted in denial?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    Matty..et al...speaking of health care in the US..I was going to put up a post about this article over the weekend..but it seems appropriate to just post it here..since I feel like this is a contributing factor to our overall ranking among industrialized nations.

     

    http://sojo.net/blogs/2013/07/05/infant-mortality-%E2%80%94-why-america-51st-place

     

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    Really BDC moderators? Really? 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Really BDC moderators? Really? 




    Yikes..I saw your comment pinkie...I can't figure out why it's not there either!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    Really BDC moderators? Really? 

     




    Yikes..I saw your comment pinkie...I can't figure out why it's not there either!

     



    I know right?!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy.

     



    You're right: modern medicine and the health care system resopnsible for administering it to people have nothing to do with how long we live.

     

    Wow.

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    How does the health care system prevent traffic deaths, murders, accidents

     

     

    I wasn't aware that people sought medical care to avoid being run over by cars, being shot, or being eaten by a bear.

     

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    smoking, obesity,

     

     

    Advice. Treatment. Prescription diet pills and smoking cessation programs.

    You're telling me that Matty is the one with the denier argument here?

    You people will say literally ANYTHING

     

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.

     

     


    Ah yes, the inevitable conspiracy theory. Is this really just a party of old defeated men, gnawing the ends of their plots?



    So a 15 year old shows up at a hospital and dies from a gun shot wound...how does the hospital have anything to do with how long the kid lived?

    How does a hospital or a doctor prevent us from eating donuts all our lives then showing up in the emergency room with a heart attack at 58? Oh they are no good because they can't force people to behave in a certain way? Maybe that is what you are looking for from the helath care system.

    All the health care system can do is treat people. They should be measured by how well they do treating disease and trauma victims, not if a million people decided to kill themselves slowly by smoking, etc.

    I suppose you only think oil companies are out to make money and create biased reports? What a simpleton you must be. Doctors don't make $500K a year and more by pretending they are Mother Theresa but they sure a dolts like you fooled.

    Do you think with that brain or do you sit on it?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    All the health care system can do is treat people.

     

    And how good a health care system is has nothing to do with how long their life expectancy is?

    With whether your doomed gunshot victim gets rapid quality care that might save his life...or not?

    Nothing?

    If that's your position we have nothing to talk about. I might as well talk to my cat.

     

     

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    Do you think with that brain or do you sit on it?

     

     



     

    Now that's rich, Mr. "medicine has nothing to do with living or dying"....  wowwwwweeeee



    Yeah, see how you twist things to suit your fancy:

    "medicine has nothing to do with living or dying"

    We are not talking about medicine, we are talking about the health care system. Two different things.

    Libruls are always complaining about gun violence? OK, do we have more gun violence than other countries or not? What the f can a health care system do about that. I suppose if we get the kind of "medicine" you want guns will be confiscated at the request of the Dept. of Health and f the 2nd amendment. Maybe I missed it, but is there medicine one can take to prevent you from being killed by a gunshot? If you measure US hospitals vs. others in treating gunshot wounds, who do you think would come out on top? We get plenty of practice.

    Do we use drugs more per capita than other countries? Do we suffer more deaths from drug overdoses? What the f can a hospital or a doctor do about that if a person wants to take drugs?

    Do we have more cars per capita? Tell me what "medicine" I can take to prevent a car accident?

    Is the USA tha fattest country in the world or not? OK, it is now no. 2 because MExico out fatted us. NOw if we all want to get fat eating junk, what can a hospital or a doctor do? Nothing.

    So you libruls like to complain about all this stuff but when it comes to the reality of it and how it affects life expectancy all of the sudden it disappears. IT is the health care systems fault. Priceless idiocy.

    All hospitals can do is treat people. If we have more people per capita behaving badly than in other countries how are they going to do anything about it? They can have all the education programs they want, but if more people behave badly here are statistics are going to suffer and it is not the fault of our health care system.

    But maybe that is what you want our health care system to do, force us to behave in a certain manner. Typical.

     

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

    Some good, some bad...some worse.  The overall study is fascinating, and the methodology is sound.  Yet, I would still like to hear some other experts in the field break it down.

     

    "Conclusions and Relevance  From 1990 to 2010, the United States made substantial progress in improving health. Life expectancy at birth and HALE increased, all-cause death rates at all ages decreased, and age-specific rates of years lived with disability remained stable. However, morbidity and chronic disability now account for nearly half of the US health burden, and improvements in population health in the United States have not kept pace with advances in population health in other wealthy nations.

    Figures in this Article

    The United States spends the most per capita on health care across all countries, lacks universal health coverage, and lags behind other high-income countries for life expectancy and many other health outcome measures. High costs with mediocre population health outcomes at the national level are compounded by marked disparities across communities, socioeconomic groups, and race and ethnicity groups. Although overall life expectancy has slowly risen, the increase has been slower than for many other high-income countries. In addition, in some US counties, life expectancy has decreased in the past 2 decades, particularly for women.Decades of health policy and legislative initiatives have been directed at these challenges; a recent example is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is intended to address issues of access, efficiency, and quality of care and to bring greater emphasis to population health outcomes. There have also been calls for initiatives to address determinants of poor health outside the health sector including enhanced tobacco control initiatives, the food supply, physical environment, and socioeconomic inequalities.

     

    ...."

    To quote one health care researcher:

    "So how did we do compared to other countries? Not well. Between 1990 and 2010, among the 34 countries in the OECD, the US dropped from 18th to 27th in age-standardized death rate. The US dropped from 23rd to 28th for age-standardized years of life lost. It dropped from 20th to 27th in life expectancy at birth. It dropped from 14th to 26th for healthy life expectancy. The only bit of good news was that the US only dropped from 5th to 6th in years lived with disability."

    http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/the-state-of-us-health-aint-so-good/

    [emphasis mine]

     



    Is this the study that heavily weights having socialized medicine as one of it's variables?

    In other words, not a focus on health outcomes as much a measure of a political goal.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

    All the health care system can do is treat people.

     

     

     

    And how good a health care system is has nothing to do with how long their life expectancy is?

    With whether your doomed gunshot victim gets rapid quality care that might save his life...or not?

    Nothing?

    If that's your position we have nothing to talk about. I might as well talk to my cat.

     

     

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

    Do you think with that brain or do you sit on it?

     

     

     

     



     

    Now that's rich, Mr. "medicine has nothing to do with living or dying"....  wowwwwweeeee

     

     



    Yeah, see how you twist things to suit your fancy:

     

     

    "medicine has nothing to do with living or dying"

    We are not talking about medicine, we are talking about the health care system. Two different things.

    Libruls are always complaining about gun violence? OK, do we have more gun violence than other countries or not? What the f can a health care system do about that. I suppose if we get the kind of "medicine" you want guns will be confiscated at the request of the Dept. of Health and f the 2nd amendment. Maybe I missed it, but is there medicine one can take to prevent you from being killed by a gunshot? If you measure US hospitals vs. others in treating gunshot wounds, who do you think would come out on top? We get plenty of practice.

    Do we use drugs more per capita than other countries? Do we suffer more deaths from drug overdoses? What the f can a hospital or a doctor do about that if a person wants to take drugs?

    Do we have more cars per capita? Tell me what "medicine" I can take to prevent a car accident?

    Is the USA tha fattest country in the world or not? OK, it is now no. 2 because MExico out fatted us. NOw if we all want to get fat eating junk, what can a hospital or a doctor do? Nothing.

    So you libruls like to complain about all this stuff but when it comes to the reality of it and how it affects life expectancy all of the sudden it disappears. IT is the health care systems fault. Priceless idiocy.

    All hospitals can do is treat people. If we have more people per capita behaving badly than in other countries how are they going to do anything about it? They can have all the education programs they want, but if more people behave badly here are statistics are going to suffer and it is not the fault of our health care system.

    But maybe that is what you want our health care system to do, force us to behave in a certain manner. Typical.

     

     




    You're not really the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you? You might actually be a spoon.

     



    I guess analytical thought was not one of your strong points in kindergarten.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

     


    Yeah, see how you twist things to suit your fancy:

    "medicine has nothing to do with living or dying"

    We are not talking about medicine, we are talking about the health care system. Two different things.

    Libruls are always complaining about gun violence? OK, do we have more gun violence than other countries or not? What the f can a health care system do about that.

     

     



     

     

    I twist things to suit my fancy?

    Are you mentally challenged? Seriously, though. Are you?

    Gun violence? Really? And where are people taken after they are shot? To a health care provider. Which is part of the health-care system. How well the health-care system functions impacts how well a health care provider provides care. Within the helath. care. system.

    THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DELIVERS THE MEDICINE.

    Did the capslock help?

     

     

     

     

     

     

    They can have all the education programs they want, but if more people behave badly here are statistics are going to suffer and it is not the fault of our health care system.

     

     

     

     

     

    So basically, when you dishonest fools claim that we have the best health care system in the world and Obamacare ruins it.....

    ...you're straight up lying. However, you feel your lie is justified because of a blind f'ing assumption that there is so much more per capita "bad behavior" here than elsewhere that the "best health care system in the world" just plain can't keep people healthy?

     

     

     

     

    Who needs data? Who needs analysis. Let's just call the other person a dummyface for not making whatever assumptions we make.

    "wicked smaht"

     



    Yeah wicked smaht you are. 

     

    You get shot, they take to the hospital. If you want to measure how well the health care system does you measure THE TREATMENT. That would be collecting data on how many survive, what the injury was, how long between the shooting and getting treatment, etc.  NOT collecting data on life expectancy and correlating that to what the health care system does.

    Let's say there are two hospitals, one in the US and another in the UK. In the US hospital, they get 100 visits to the ER by gunshot victims with an average age of 23. In the UK they get 4 with an average age of 30. In the US 20 die from their wounds, in the UK, they all die.

    Because the US has more deaths by gun violence that would drag down their life expectancy statistics. But does that mean the US has worse health care in this case?? No, it means more people get shot and die younger here. The same situation exists for deaths from car accidents, drug overdoses, obesity.

    You are concluding that the US Health Care system  is causing a lower life expectancy here when there is not even a correlation. 

    It is a completely bogus conclusion.

    If you can't figure it out then you are just an ideological wing nut.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:


    Ah yes, the inevitable conspiracy theory. Is this really just a party of old defeated men, gnawing the ends of their plots?



    Like Harry Reid, Dick Durbin and Chucky Schooooomer!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

    Some good, some bad...some worse.  The overall study is fascinating, and the methodology is sound.  Yet, I would still like to hear some other experts in the field break it down.

     

    "Conclusions and Relevance  From 1990 to 2010, the United States made substantial progress in improving health. Life expectancy at birth and HALE increased, all-cause death rates at all ages decreased, and age-specific rates of years lived with disability remained stable. However, morbidity and chronic disability now account for nearly half of the US health burden, and improvements in population health in the United States have not kept pace with advances in population health in other wealthy nations.

    Figures in this Article

    The United States spends the most per capita on health care across all countries, lacks universal health coverage, and lags behind other high-income countries for life expectancy and many other health outcome measures. High costs with mediocre population health outcomes at the national level are compounded by marked disparities across communities, socioeconomic groups, and race and ethnicity groups. Although overall life expectancy has slowly risen, the increase has been slower than for many other high-income countries. In addition, in some US counties, life expectancy has decreased in the past 2 decades, particularly for women.Decades of health policy and legislative initiatives have been directed at these challenges; a recent example is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is intended to address issues of access, efficiency, and quality of care and to bring greater emphasis to population health outcomes. There have also been calls for initiatives to address determinants of poor health outside the health sector including enhanced tobacco control initiatives, the food supply, physical environment, and socioeconomic inequalities.

     

    ...."

    To quote one health care researcher:

    "So how did we do compared to other countries? Not well. Between 1990 and 2010, among the 34 countries in the OECD, the US dropped from 18th to 27th in age-standardized death rate. The US dropped from 23rd to 28th for age-standardized years of life lost. It dropped from 20th to 27th in life expectancy at birth. It dropped from 14th to 26th for healthy life expectancy. The only bit of good news was that the US only dropped from 5th to 6th in years lived with disability."

    http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/the-state-of-us-health-aint-so-good/

    [emphasis mine]

     




    If this is accurate; it's about to get alot worse!

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy. 



    That seems to be the heart of the problem, as underlined by this study (and others).

    The system is fundamentally broken, and the results bear this out.

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.



    How is it "bogus", exactly?

    Do you have data that conflicts with the AMA's findings...?  

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    too many variables...

    Here's the one question that matters.....

    If you or your family member was critically ill or critically injured...what one place on the planet would you want to be????

    April 15, 2013 proves my point....Best hospitals, best nurses and best doctors on the planet and you don't need a passport to get here.....Boston, MA, USA

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

    too many variables...

     



    Then, uh, why did a substantial percentage of the conservatives here who oppose Obamacare claim that we have the best health care system in the world?

     


    How could we know this, if there are too many variables?



    So where would you take your critically ill family member if not Boston, MA..USA????  Best health care on the planet....

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     Obamacare's most vocal critics admit as much when they argue that all the good doctors (providers) came here because of our health care system.

     




    And many will leave now after this ACA debacle.

     

     
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