AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes


    Again I point out that not ONE of you would leave Boston if you or one of your family members were critically ill.....there's not one other place on the planet you would go to if given the option.

    Hypocrites......

    Best nurses, best doctors, best medical facilities ON THE PLANET!!!!!! 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

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    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

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    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So where would you take your critically ill family member if not Boston, MA..USA????  Best health care on the planet....

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Only if one can afford it.

    And that's the rub.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    I thought ACA was going to help make it affordable? 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    By shifting care models from the emergency room to the doctor's office?  It will absolutely be more affordable.

     

     

     

    Currently, ER care is as pricey as it gets.

     

     

     

     



    Sorry but that alone will not cut costs enough to counter the costs associated with the likes of obesity and smoking as two examples.

     

     

     



    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

     

    Now, as you've suggested, will it totally prevent knuckleheads who choose to smoke, drink, or wave their guns like cowboys?  Of course not.  This is America, where public idiocy is a common pastime (and point of pride in some circles).

    But that was never the goal of the law, either.  (Saying it was is frankly dishonest.)  It addresses the systemic problems which inflates all the costs of health care into the inefficient morass we have now...

    ...and the inefficiency and less-than-stellar patient outcomes which are directly measured in this study.

     

     



    But that was never the goal of the law, either.  (Saying it was is frankly dishonest.)  

    Who said it was?

     

    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. If people who already have coverage and already have PCP and ignore advice of said PCP, then what makes you think they will listen now? Just because Obamacare is implemented doesn't mean people's way of living is suddenly going to change. Obamacare is implement and suddenly people stop being lazy gluttonous pigs? I don't think so.

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.

     



    How is it "bogus", exactly?

     

    Do you have data that conflicts with the AMA's findings...?  

     



    The AMA whole-heartedly endorsing Obamacare is all the proof I need.  It is a partisan and extremely progressive organization.  Oh, every so often, it does something worhtwhile, but don't hold your breath.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy. 

     



    That seems to be the heart of the problem, as underlined by this study (and others).

     

    The system is fundamentally broken, and the results bear this out.

     

     



    It is not the system that is broken.  It is the people who are broken: Very high obesity rates, very bad diets, low exercise.

    I fear this study has little to do with how health care is delivered, but more to do with tthe state people find themselves in when sick.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

     

     

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    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So where would you take your critically ill family member if not Boston, MA..USA????  Best health care on the planet....

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Only if one can afford it.

    And that's the rub.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    I thought ACA was going to help make it affordable? 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    By shifting care models from the emergency room to the doctor's office?  It will absolutely be more affordable.

     

     

     

     

    Currently, ER care is as pricey as it gets.

     

     

     

     

     



    Sorry but that alone will not cut costs enough to counter the costs associated with the likes of obesity and smoking as two examples.

     

     

     

     

     



    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

     

     

    Now, as you've suggested, will it totally prevent knuckleheads who choose to smoke, drink, or wave their guns like cowboys?  Of course not.  This is America, where public idiocy is a common pastime (and point of pride in some circles).

    But that was never the goal of the law, either.  (Saying it was is frankly dishonest.)  It addresses the systemic problems which inflates all the costs of health care into the inefficient morass we have now...

    ...and the inefficiency and less-than-stellar patient outcomes which are directly measured in this study.

     

     

     



     

    You are still in denial about the direction of the cost curve.  All evidence, including the recent CBO data, points tot he cost curve going up and staying there.  Why? Because progressives are out to redistribute healthcare insurance, not fix it, to the extent it can be fixed.  If improving healthcare outcomes was the true goal, there would not be a medical device tax, mandatory purchasing of insurance, and government exxhanges, and so on.  All costly impacts to offering the best healthcare possible.

    The simpler, and more outcome impacting thing to do would be to lessen the impact of government on healthcare, not increase it.

    The truth is, making sure everyone has the same health care outcomes means that everyone gets mediocre and expensive care.  But, we will all be equal.

    That's the long and short of it.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:

     


    Again I point out that not ONE of you would leave Boston if you or one of your family members were critically ill.....there's not one other place on the planet you would go to if given the option.

    Hypocrites......

    Best nurses, best doctors, best medical facilities ON THE PLANET!!!!!! 

     




    I'll point out the stupidity of your supposed "gotcha' attempt at a point.

     

    Boston comprises about .05% of the country ya moron.

    I guess the other 95.95 % can suffer in silence....

    You really are pretty stupid.

    I should've known from the nh tag, as dumb as they get up there, that's fer sure....



    More "tough guy" talk from the biggest coward on BDC. Now THAT'S funny

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to macnh1's comment:


    Again I point out that not ONE of you would leave Boston if you or one of your family members were critically ill.....there's not one other place on the planet you would go to if given the option.

    Hypocrites......

    Best nurses, best doctors, best medical facilities ON THE PLANET!!!!!! 



    Typical myopia.  And elitist, to boot.

    Boston is but a small part of the country, in case you haven't noticed.

    And even in Boston, outcomes are never perfect.  Based on the DATA presented here, the U.S. overall core might be worse without our relative degree of quality.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. If people who already have coverage and already have PCP and ignore advice of said PCP, then what makes you think they will listen now? Just because Obamacare is implemented doesn't mean people's way of living is suddenly going to change. Obamacare is implement and suddenly people stop being lazy gluttonous pigs? I don't think so.

     

    There are assumptions to be made on both sides, and I agree that the jury is still out on how quickly our system can shift to a more efficient, preventative model.

    However, what this data/analysis shows is that such a shift is absolutely necessary to both improve outcomes and eliminate the glaring inefficiencies and inequities we're dealing with...

    ...some of the same factors driving up said costs, it must be said.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

     

    Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.

     

     



    How is it "bogus", exactly?

     

     

    Do you have data that conflicts with the AMA's findings...?  

     

     



    The AMA whole-heartedly endorsing Obamacare is all the proof I need.  It is a partisan and extremely progressive organization.  Oh, every so often, it does something worhtwhile, but don't hold your breath.

     



    Don't shoot the messengers.  Your ideological bent is irrelevant in light of the data.

    If you have other data with which to rebut, then lay it out there, homes....

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

     

    Our health care system has very little it can do to impact life expectancy. 

     

     



    That seems to be the heart of the problem, as underlined by this study (and others).

     

     

    The system is fundamentally broken, and the results bear this out.

     

     

     



    It is not the system that is broken.  It is the people who are broken: Very high obesity rates, very bad diets, low exercise.

     

    I fear this study has little to do with how health care is delivered, but more to do with tthe state people find themselves in when sick.



    No, it's very much about the way that health care is delivered and the costs of doing so.

    America isn't the only country with fat, lazy people, and yet somehow many of these countries can achieve better results...

    ...with more preventative care, less unnecessary diagnostics and more value for the money.

    The data proves it quite succinctly.

     

    Nobody is saying Americans don't have serious endemic health issues, but it's dishonest to say that the system we have deals with those issues in the best way it can on a macro level.  It doesn't...not by a long shot.

     

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. If people who already have coverage and already have PCP and ignore advice of said PCP, then what makes you think they will listen now? Just because Obamacare is implemented doesn't mean people's way of living is suddenly going to change. Obamacare is implement and suddenly people stop being lazy gluttonous pigs? I don't think so.

     

     

     

     

    There are assumptions to be made on both sides, and I agree that the jury is still out on how quickly our system can shift to a more efficient, preventative model.

    However, what this data/analysis shows is that such a shift is absolutely necessary to both improve outcomes and eliminate the glaring inefficiencies and inequities we're dealing with...

    ...some of the same factors driving up said costs, it must be said.

     

     



    Look, I'm all for Obamacare in that we definitely needed to get rid of things like pre-x and lifetime max for examples. And if we get everyone covered then HOPEFULLY our ERs will be for TRUE emergencies. Although I am not going to hold my breath on that. We live in an entitled country where everyone wants thing NOW. Not one or two days later but NOW. So there are still going to be those who feel waiting till Monday for an office visit for their fcuking sniffles is just totally unacceptable because they want treatment IMMEDIATELY. 

     

    But maybe ERs will get freed up enough to cut wait times to three hours : )

    Having said all that. I just don't believe Obamacare is going to have the great impact many on the Left as saying it will. I hope it does...but we'll see.

     



    I agree 100% that it won't happen overnight.  And I don't think anyone who truly understands health care thinks that, either...at least not if they're honest.

    And I agree about our "culture of entitlement" also being to blame for the mess we're in.  Heck, the whole reason we have insurance is because we're unable to set aside enough money for a rainy day...mortgaging our future and yoking ourselves to the usurious credit card industry.

    By the same token, nobody gets thin overnight, in spite of what the infomercials say.  In some ways, the culture is maybe starting to figure out that staying healthy and avoiding garbage can be hard work, a la insanity workouts, biggest loser, etc.  

    But the culture is also a macroscopic entity and doesn't turn on a dime.  Just like with our natural resources, the majority will have to come around eventually, or the consequences could be severe.  The notion of starting in the schools with children is just such a long-term goal.

    Medicare may not be perfect, but it did serve to dramatically lengthen lifespans and allow people to stay active and healthy late in life.  That's hardly a bad thing, and like the ACA, it didn't happen instantly.

    My hope is that, with more people getting more regular care, some of the more pervasive, genetic challenges of obesity, diabetes, etc. can be overcome...if not in our lifetimes then soon after.

    [Purely an aside: I sadly lost my maternal grandmother this past Sunday. She was 93, played tennis late into her life, lived well, and exercised every single day. She was a good example of maintaining simple, short-term measures to benefit the long run.  I'm both thankful and humble in that light.]

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. If people who already have coverage and already have PCP and ignore advice of said PCP, then what makes you think they will listen now? Just because Obamacare is implemented doesn't mean people's way of living is suddenly going to change. Obamacare is implement and suddenly people stop being lazy gluttonous pigs? I don't think so.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    There are assumptions to be made on both sides, and I agree that the jury is still out on how quickly our system can shift to a more efficient, preventative model.

    However, what this data/analysis shows is that such a shift is absolutely necessary to both improve outcomes and eliminate the glaring inefficiencies and inequities we're dealing with...

    ...some of the same factors driving up said costs, it must be said.

     

     

     



    Look, I'm all for Obamacare in that we definitely needed to get rid of things like pre-x and lifetime max for examples. And if we get everyone covered then HOPEFULLY our ERs will be for TRUE emergencies. Although I am not going to hold my breath on that. We live in an entitled country where everyone wants thing NOW. Not one or two days later but NOW. So there are still going to be those who feel waiting till Monday for an office visit for their fcuking sniffles is just totally unacceptable because they want treatment IMMEDIATELY. 

     

     

    But maybe ERs will get freed up enough to cut wait times to three hours : )

    Having said all that. I just don't believe Obamacare is going to have the great impact many on the Left as saying it will. I hope it does...but we'll see.

     

     



    I agree 100% that it won't happen overnight.  And I don't think anyone who truly understands health care thinks that, either...at least not if they're honest.

     

    And I agree about our "culture of entitlement" also being to blame for the mess we're in.  Heck, the whole reason we have insurance is because we're unable to set aside enough money for a rainy day...mortgaging our future and yoking ourselves to the usurious credit card industry.

    By the same token, nobody gets thin overnight, in spite of what the infomercials say.  In some ways, the culture is maybe starting to figure out that staying healthy and avoiding garbage can be hard work, a la insanity workouts, biggest loser, etc.  

    But the culture is also a macroscopic entity and doesn't turn on a dime.  Just like with our natural resources, the majority will have to come around eventually, or the consequences could be severe.  The notion of starting in the schools with children is just such a long-term goal.

    Medicare may not be perfect, but it did serve to dramatically lengthen lifespans and allow people to stay active and healthy late in life.  That's hardly a bad thing, and like the ACA, it didn't happen instantly.

    My hope is that, with more people getting more regular care, some of the more pervasive, genetic challenges of obesity, diabetes, etc. can be overcome...if not in our lifetimes then soon after.

    [Purely an aside: I sadly lost my maternal grandmother this past Sunday. She was 93, played tennis late into her life, lived well, and exercised every single day. She was a good example of maintaining simple, short-term measures to benefit the long run.  I'm both thankful and humble in that light.]

     



    Sorry about your loss. Good for your grandmother that she was living life to fullest at 93. Many older people pack it in so to speak when they get old. Sounds like your grandmother had the right attitude. Enjoy the hell out of the memories you have of her. It helps get through the down times.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

    Somehow it is not surprising that an organization of doctors is doing a bogus analysis to unlock more money for them and their health care colleagues.

     

     



    How is it "bogus", exactly?

     

     

    Do you have data that conflicts with the AMA's findings...?  

     



    The AMA whole-heartedly endorsing Obamacare is all the proof I need.  It is a partisan and extremely progressive organization.  Oh, every so often, it does something worhtwhile, but don't hold your breath.

     

    [/QUOT

    MGH...fell to number two as the best hospital on the planet.....  but you will go to Montreal if you are sick....good luck with that....

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I disagree.  Over time, that's precisely how the cost curve bends.

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. If people who already have coverage and already have PCP and ignore advice of said PCP, then what makes you think they will listen now? Just because Obamacare is implemented doesn't mean people's way of living is suddenly going to change. Obamacare is implement and suddenly people stop being lazy gluttonous pigs? I don't think so.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    There are assumptions to be made on both sides, and I agree that the jury is still out on how quickly our system can shift to a more efficient, preventative model.

    However, what this data/analysis shows is that such a shift is absolutely necessary to both improve outcomes and eliminate the glaring inefficiencies and inequities we're dealing with...

    ...some of the same factors driving up said costs, it must be said.

     

     

     

     



    Look, I'm all for Obamacare in that we definitely needed to get rid of things like pre-x and lifetime max for examples. And if we get everyone covered then HOPEFULLY our ERs will be for TRUE emergencies. Although I am not going to hold my breath on that. We live in an entitled country where everyone wants thing NOW. Not one or two days later but NOW. So there are still going to be those who feel waiting till Monday for an office visit for their fcuking sniffles is just totally unacceptable because they want treatment IMMEDIATELY. 

     

     

     

    But maybe ERs will get freed up enough to cut wait times to three hours : )

    Having said all that. I just don't believe Obamacare is going to have the great impact many on the Left as saying it will. I hope it does...but we'll see.

     

     

     



    I agree 100% that it won't happen overnight.  And I don't think anyone who truly understands health care thinks that, either...at least not if they're honest.

     

     

    And I agree about our "culture of entitlement" also being to blame for the mess we're in.  Heck, the whole reason we have insurance is because we're unable to set aside enough money for a rainy day...mortgaging our future and yoking ourselves to the usurious credit card industry.

    By the same token, nobody gets thin overnight, in spite of what the infomercials say.  In some ways, the culture is maybe starting to figure out that staying healthy and avoiding garbage can be hard work, a la insanity workouts, biggest loser, etc.  

    But the culture is also a macroscopic entity and doesn't turn on a dime.  Just like with our natural resources, the majority will have to come around eventually, or the consequences could be severe.  The notion of starting in the schools with children is just such a long-term goal.

    Medicare may not be perfect, but it did serve to dramatically lengthen lifespans and allow people to stay active and healthy late in life.  That's hardly a bad thing, and like the ACA, it didn't happen instantly.

    My hope is that, with more people getting more regular care, some of the more pervasive, genetic challenges of obesity, diabetes, etc. can be overcome...if not in our lifetimes then soon after.

    [Purely an aside: I sadly lost my maternal grandmother this past Sunday. She was 93, played tennis late into her life, lived well, and exercised every single day. She was a good example of maintaining simple, short-term measures to benefit the long run.  I'm both thankful and humble in that light.]

     

     



    Sorry about your loss. Good for your grandmother that she was living life to fullest at 93. Many older people pack it in so to speak when they get old. Sounds like your grandmother had the right attitude. Enjoy the hell out of the memories you have of her. It helps get through the down times.

     



    Thanks for your concern.

    I would not say that, exactly.  She lived her life as best she could for a very long time.  I'm not convinced that these past few years or so were the "fullest", but ultimately it was her decision to keep on living under acute care.

    And I bring it up only to say that I really don't believe in entitlements; I believe in empowerments...in empowering people to make the best decisions as they see fit with the best information at their disposal under the most equitable, dignified conditions we can muster.  

    Obviously, we're not nearly there yet, but we could be...with a little more effort, compassion and respect.  To me, it's the least we can do.

     

     
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