Re: AMA: U.S. Health Care is 28th in Health Outcomes
posted at 7/15/2013 2:42 PM EDT
In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
You get shot, they take to the hospital. If you want to measure how well the health care system does you measure THE TREATMENT. That would be collecting data on how many survive, what the injury was, how long between the shooting and getting treatment, etc. NOT collecting data on life expectancy and correlating that to what the health care system does.
Let's say there are two hospitals, one in the US and another in the UK. In the US hospital, they get 100 visits to the ER by gunshot victims with an average age of 23. In the UK they get 4 with an average age of 30. In the US 20 die from their wounds, in the UK, they all die.
Because the US has more deaths by gun violence that would drag down their life expectancy statistics. But does that mean the US has worse health care in this case?? No, it means more people get shot and die younger here. The same situation exists for deaths from car accidents, drug overdoses, obesity.
You are concluding that the US Health Care system is causing a lower life expectancy here when there is not even a correlation.
It is a completely bogus conclusion.
No. You are making a logical mistake. You are assuming that the existence of self-harm and accidental harm means that the quality of the health care system has no effect on overall life expectancy.
But it does, for obvious reasons. Two simple thought experiments.
1. Would you rather be shot in America or Zimbabwe?
2. Do you think you would have more or less chance of success quitting smoking if you had access to a doctor, advice on quitting methods/therapy, nicotine gum, etc., - all of which is present in our health care system.....
....or if you were in Zimbabwe?
3. Do you think checkups, advice, etc, are more likely to catch and counter your problems in America or Zimbabwe.
You are acting like the quality of a health care system has nothing to do with the providers who are attracted to become part of it, and the care they therefore provide.
A healthcare system is insurers, facilities, doctors, medicine, equipment: All of that together.
Of course these things are connected. Obamacare's most vocal critics admit as much when they argue that all the good doctors (providers) came here because of our health care system.
No, I am not saying that. I am saying that because we have a higher percentage of people with unhealthy behaviors that drags down life expectancy stats. And it is not logical to measure a hospital by something it has no control over.
Where am I more likely to get shot, America or Iceland?
Where am I more likely to be fat from a lousy diet, America or China?
Where is it more likely to find people dying of drug overdoses?
Where am I more likely to die in a car accident?
Yes the health care system has a role in these incident - treatment. That is what should be measured. Even if we have better treament outcomes the bad behaviors are so much more prevalent it could outweigh treatment.
Exactly right. Our behaviors have a HUGE impact on our life expectancy. We have great doctors and hospitals here. But if I don't go to my doctor for regular checkups then there is only so much doctors and hospitals can do to save me when the pain I was ignoring all those years turned out to now be stage 4 cancer. Too late. People like Airborne feel it's ok to put blame on our health care system rather than putting the blame where it belongs...on me for not taking advantage of our health care early enough.
Look at our obesity rate. We all know those who are obese have been instructed by their doctor to start exercising and eating healthier, yet our obesity rate keeps going up. Most aren't taking their doctors advice. Same goes for smoking. Drugs use. Alcohol abuse.
We also have too many morons who have zero commonsense who leave loaded guns around for kids to pick up and accidentally shoot themselves or their sibling.
We're all in such a fcking hurry that we drive too fast and reckless and as a result cause deaths
We also have stress levels off the charts. No other country worries about work like we do here. So unhealthy and a killer for many
We change our priorities and mindsets a bit and we would be that much healthier. But I won't hold my breath on that.