Re: Are dems hiding the real costs of the ACA?
posted at 7/3/2013 12:39 PM EDT
In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
They presented plenty of plans.
McCain proposed a tax credit in 2008 debates. If memory serves it was $5000, rendering it meaningless by 2011.
The problem critics of Obamacare are facing is that they can't articulate a way to reduce actual health care costs - the amount insurers bargain to pay providers for particular service. What are you going to do, set absolute price controls?
This is why every other developped country has gone to some kind of single payer. It's the only system that lets costs be dealt with on a uniform basis.
As it stands, the same procedure costs widlly different amounts depending on which particular provider who performs it. Obamacare doesn't do anything about that. Nothing Republicans proposed do anything about that.
The only thing Obamacare can do is try to lower premiums (and they have grown more slowly since it passed) and get more people covered, thereby - hopefully - leading to more preventative care while stopping people from gaming the system.
If Obamacare is so awful, why can't ANYONE here who criticizes it articulate a specific alternate plan and why it would work.
A few people have shouted "free market" without explanation. Well, yippee.
Does anyone have any solid critiques? It's sounding more like "bush lied, people died" every day.
Try googling "Paul Ryan health care plan". You will get plenty. I bet if you googled some other names or maybe some conservative think tanks in the same manner you'd get plenty of content to dismiss and pretend that no one offers alternatives.
"As it stands, the same procedure costs widlly different amounts depending on which particular provider who performs it. Obamacare doesn't do anything about that. Nothing Republicans proposed do anything about that."
How do you know? I thought there was no alternative proposed? How can you make that claim when there clearly are alternatives and you are just too lazy to find them?
All that aside, our healthcare system is just a big ole mess and adding Obamacare on top of it is not going to make it better.
If you have to deal the the health care industry, you know that it is run by government regulations. Yeah, the government doesn't own it but they might as well because they regulate it to death.
Try reading up on how Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements are determined. It will make your hair hurt it is so stupid.
I will give you one thing for sure. I have not heard any serious argument for greatly reducing the role of government in health care. I don't think even the Republicans are that interested in it.
All that said a reason healthcare is so expensive here is that no one makes money by preventing disease. That is up to indivudual behaviors. And we would rather take a pill to control something rather than skip the pill and modify the behavior. Pills make money. What they call "preventive care" is really early detection. So the industry wants you to behave in an unhealthy manner so they can test you to make sure you are OK until the test is positive andn then they can fix you up. Real preventive care is a money loser. Stop eating junk. Stop smoking. Start moving, etc. Can't make anything on that except maybe some DVDs to peddle on a PBS begathon.
You are a funny guy. Lost in your ideological ignorance but funny none the less.
Let's see, Ryan's healthcare plan..... what are the key points.....
1. Preventing Disease and Promoting Healthier Lifestyles;
Ooooh freaking ground breaking that is. That's about as much as a no-brainer for the no-brainers as you can get. Heck Michelle's got that covered all by herself.
2. Creating Affordable and Accessible Health Insurance Options- Creates State Health Insurance Exchanges;
Now where have I heard that before, it sounds awful familiar... and not in a new and different way either ... just in a "deja vu all over again" echo type of way.
3. Equalizes the Tax Treatment of Health Care, Empowering All Americans with Real Access to Coverage; Economic analysts across the political divide agree that the tax code is stacked in favor of the wealthy....
Hmmmmm can you say "Cadillac health plans"?
Yada, yada, yada...
The key points from boy-Robin are EXACTLY the same provisions as in ACA and yet the wingnuts continue to tilt at their imaginary windmills, oblivious of reality.
The only reason the 'knutes keep fighting ACA is because it was... gawd forbid.... written and passed by the Dems.... ohhh the horror.
Like I said, alternatives have been proposed. And like I said if you found it you would dismiss it..
So the problem isn't that no alternative has been proposed. You just hadn't bothered to look into it, you just wanted to mouth off.
Alternatives have been proposed on both sides - remember the public option?
Republicans controlled congress for 12 years - from 1995 to 2007. Health care costs and premiums doubled during that time. Where were the Republican alternatives then? You think congressional Republicans get to sit on their hands for 12 years, but as soon as there's actual movement on an issue, the ideas of the majority should be swept aside in favor of those who stayed silent for so long?
Besides all that, it's a lie. When push came to shove, the Republican Mantra was "start over" and "push the reset button". They were never interested in changing he status quo - just hoping to stall until the mid-terms.