ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

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    ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    The below article goes into this basic question.

    Will e-cigarettes cause more or fewer people to smoke? This is a question where the answer truly matters.

    My fervent hope is that e-cigs wil lead to less people smoking. There is hardly a concensus that that will be the case.

    For those of you who have ever lost a loved one to lung cancer this is a must read. 

     

     

     

    The essence of their disagreement comes down to a simple question: Will e-cigarettes cause more or fewer people to smoke? The answer matters. Cigarette smoking is still the single largest cause of preventable death in the United States, killing about 480,000 people a year.

    Dr. Siegel, whose graduate school manuscripts Dr. Glantz used to read, says e-cigarette pessimists are stuck on the idea that anything that looks like smoking is bad. “They are so blinded by this ideology that they are not able to see e-cigarettes objectively,” he said. Dr. Glantz disagrees. “E-cigarettes seem like a good idea,” he said, “but they aren’t.”

    Science that might resolve questions about e-cigarettes is still developing, and many experts agree that the evidence so far is too skimpy to draw definitive conclusions about the long-term effects of the devices on the broader population.

    “The popularity is outpacing the knowledge,” said Dr. Michael B. Steinberg, associate professor of medicine at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School at Rutgers University. “We’ll have a better idea in another year or two of how safe these products are, but the question is, will the horse be out of the barn by then?”

    This high-stakes debate over what e-cigarettes mean for the nation’s 42 million smokers comes at a crucial moment. Soon, the Food and Drug Administration is expected to issue regulations that would give the agency control over the devices, which have had explosive growth virtually free of any federal oversight. (Some cities, like Boston and New York, and states, like New Jersey and Utah, have already weighed in, enacting bans in public places.)

    The new federal rules will have broad implications for public health. If they are too tough, experts say, they risk snuffing out small e-cigarette companies in favor of Big Tobacco, which has recently entered the e-cigarette business. If they are too lax, sloppy manufacturing could lead to devices that do not work properly or even harm people.

    And many scientists say e-cigarettes will be truly effective in reducing the death toll from smoking only with the right kind of federal regulation — for example, rules that make ordinary cigarettes more expensive than e-cigarettes, or that reduce the amount of nicotine in ordinary cigarettes so smokers turn to e-cigarettes for their nicotine.

    Continue reading the main story

    “E-cigarettes are not a miracle cure,” said David B. Abrams, executive director of the Schroeder National Institute for Tobacco Research and Policy Studies at the Legacy Foundation, an antismoking research group. “They need a little help to eclipse cigarettes, which are still the most satisfying and deadly product ever made.”

    Smoking is already undergoing a rapid evolution. Nicotine, the powerful stimulant that makes traditional cigarettes addictive, is the crucial ingredient in e-cigarettes, whose current incarnation was developed by a Chinese pharmacist whose father died of lung cancer. With e-cigarettes, nicotine is inhaled through a liquid that is heated into vapor. New research suggeststhat e-cigarettes deliver nicotine faster than gum or lozenges, two therapies that have never quite taken off.

    Sales of e-cigarettes more than doubled last year from 2012, to $1.7 billion, according to Bonnie Herzog, an analyst at Wells Fargo Securities. Ms. Herzog said that in the next decade, consumption of e-cigarettes could outstrip that of conventional cigarettes. The number of stores that sell them has quadrupled in just the last year, according to the Smoke Free Alternatives Trade Association, an e-cigarette industry trade group.

    “E-cigarette users sure seem to be speaking with their pocketbooks,” said Mitchell Zeller, director of the F.D.A.’s Center for Tobacco Products.

    Public health experts like to say that people smoke for the nicotine but die from the tar. And the reason e-cigarettes have caused such a stir is that they take the deadly tar out of the equation while offering the nicotine fix and the sensation of smoking. For all that is unknown about the new devices — they have been on the American market for only seven years — most researchers agree that puffing on one is far less harmful than smoking a traditional cigarette.

    But then their views diverge.

    Pessimists like Dr. Glantz say that while e-cigarettes might be good in theory, they are bad in practice. The vast majority of people who smoke them now also smoke conventional cigarettes, he said, and there is little evidence that much switching is happening. E-cigarettes may even prolong the habit, he said, by offering a dose of nicotine at times when getting one from a traditional cigarette is inconvenient or illegal.

    What is more, critics say, they make smoking look alluring again, with images on billboards and television ads for the first time in decades. Dr. Glantz says that only about half the people alive today have ever seen a broadcast ad for cigarettes. “I feel like I’ve gotten into a time machine and gone back to the 1980s,” he said.

    Researchers also worry that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to traditional cigarettes for young people. The devices are sold on the Internet. The liquids that make their vapor come in flavors like mango and watermelon. Celebrities smoke them: Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Leonardo DiCaprio puffed on them at the Golden Globe Awards.

    A survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that in 2012, about 10 percent of high school students said they had tried an e-cigarette, up from 5 percent in 2011. But 7 percent of those who had tried e-cigarettes said they had never smoked a traditional cigarette, prompting concern that e-cigarettes were, in fact, becoming a gateway.

    THE NEW SMOKE

    • Articles in this series will examine the multibillion-dollar market for e-cigarettes and the consequences for public health.

     

    “I think the precautionary principle — better safe than sorry — rules here,” said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the C.D.C.

    E-cigarette skeptics have also raised concerns about nicotine addiction. But many researchers say that the nicotine by itself is not a serious health hazard. Nicotine-replacement therapies like lozenges and patches have been used for years. Some even argue that nicotine is a lot like caffeine: an addictive substance that stimulates the mind.

     

    “Nicotine may have some adverse health effects, but they are relatively minor,” said Dr. Neal L. Benowitz, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, who has spent his career studying the pharmacology of nicotine.

    Another ingredient, propylene glycol, the vapor that e-cigarettes emit — whose main alternative use is as fake smoke on concert and theater stages — is a lung irritant, and the effects of inhaling it over time are a concern, Dr. Benowitz said.

    But Dr. Siegel and others contend that some public health experts, after a single-minded battle against smoking that has run for decades, are too inflexible about e-cigarettes. The strategy should be to reduce harm from conventional cigarettes, and e-cigarettes offer a way to do that, he said, much in the way that giving clean needles to intravenous drug users reduces their odds of getting infected with the virus that causes AIDS.

     

     

    There are many different kinds of smokers, and they need different solutions. As an incredible nicotine addict (whose dad is so addicted...

     

    Solid evidence about e-cigarettes is limited. A clinical trial in New Zealand, which many researchers regard as the most reliable study to date, found that after six months about 7 percent of people given e-cigarettes had quit smoking, a slightly better rate than those with patches.

    “The findings were intriguing but nothing to write home about yet,” said Thomas J. Glynn, a researcher at the American Cancer Society.

    In Britain, where the regulatory process is more developed than in the United States, researchers say that smoking trends are heading in the right direction.

    “Motivation to quit is up, success of quit attempts are up, and prevalence is coming down faster than it has for the last six or seven years,” said Robert West, director of tobacco studies at University College London. It is impossible to know whether e-cigarettes drove the changes, he said, but “we can certainly say they are not undermining quitting.”

    The scientific uncertainties have intensified the public health fight, with each side seizing on scraps of new data to bolster its position. One recent study in Germany on secondhand vapor from e-cigarettes prompted Dr. Glantz to write on his blog, “More evidence that e-cigs cause substantial air pollution.” Dr. Siegel highlighted the same study, concluding that it showed “no evidence of a significant public health hazard.”

    That Big Tobacco is now selling e-cigarettes has contributed to skepticism among experts and advocates.

    Cigarettes went into broad use in the 1920s — and by the 1940s, lung cancer rates had exploded. More Americans have died from smoking than in all the wars the United States has fought. Smoking rates have declined sharply since the 1960s, when about half of all men and a third of women smoked. But progress has slowed, with a smoking rate now of around 18 percent.

    “Part of the furniture for us is that the tobacco industry is evil and everything they do has to be opposed,” said John Britton, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Nottingham in England, and the director for the U.K. Center for Tobacco and Alcohol Studies. “But one doesn’t want that to get in the way of public health.”

    Carefully devised federal regulations might channel the marketing might of major tobacco companies into e-cigarettes, cannibalizing sales of traditional cigarettes, Dr. Abrams of the Schroeder Institute said. “We need a jujitsu move to take their own weight and use it against them,” he said.

    Dr. Benowitz said he could see a situation under which the F.D.A. would gradually reduce the nicotine levels allowable in traditional cigarettes, pushing smokers to e-cigarettes.

    “If we make it too hard for this experiment to continue, we’ve wasted an opportunity that could eventually save millions of lives,” Dr. Siegel said.

    Dr. Glantz disagreed.

     

    “I frankly think the fault line will be gone in another year,” he said. “The evidence will show their true colors.”

     

     

     

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/health/a-hot-debate-over-e-cigarettes-as-a-path-to-tobacco-or-from-it.html

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    I honestly don't know how anyone can smoke. People ask me if I was ever curious to try smoking. Curious? About what...lung cancer? COPD? Heart disease? Or was I supposed to be curious about getting yellowed teeth, aged skin, smelly breath, smelly clothes? Hahaha...honestly are these people kidding?

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    This is a bizarre situation.

    The eCig is nothing but a nictoine delivery system. Except they do add propylene glycol to create "smoke" which indicates that there is some psychological aspect to smoking that the manufacturers of ecigs want to address.

    Some people are worried that these ecigs will cause more people to smoke reall cigarettes. They want to ban the fake cigarette, so more people won't resort to real cigarettes.

    A real cigarette has no healthful useful purpose. Why not ban the real thing instead of the fake one??

    I know it isn't going to happen. There are too many vested interests in keeping real cigarettes - tobacco companies, governments that make more on a pack of cigarettes than the tobacco companies, and others. What if y ou had a company that existed solely on people smoking cigarettes? There are plenty out there. Sure some would be glad to do something else but not all.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?


    "some public health experts, after a single-minded battle against smoking that has run for decades, are too inflexible about e-cigarettes. The strategy should be to reduce harm from conventional cigarettes, and e-cigarettes offer a way to do that"

    Well said. The "public health experts', and the Government, are very much partners with the tobacco industry. The state Governments are addicted, not to nicotine, but  to  tobacco tax revenue.

    The Government bureaucrats rail against the evil and immoral tobacco companies making money from their cancer sticks, while the Government makes billions from the same product!

    "Dr. Benowitz said he could see a situation under which the F.D.A. would gradually reduce the nicotine levels allowable in traditional cigarettes, pushing smokers to e-cigarettes."

    One thing for sure, the Government's meddling regulators will find a way to mess up the health benefits from ecigs...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    I think that it would be crazy to decide to start using any addictive drug regardless of the delivery method. That said, I would have loved to have had electronic cigarettes around when I was actively smoking.

     

    A real cigarette has no healthful useful purpose.

     

    Cigaretes don't but nicotine may have some benefits...

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/14/science/researchers-investigate-horrors-nicotine-s-potential-benefits.html

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    I think that it would be crazy to decide to start using any addictive drug regardless of the delivery method. That said, I would have loved to have had electronic cigarettes around when I was actively smoking.

     

    A real cigarette has no healthful useful purpose.

     

    Cigaretes don't but nicotine may have some benefits...

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/14/science/researchers-investigate-horrors-nicotine-s-potential-benefits.html

     

     



    SB,

    Went to that link, but it came up empty.

    I know I have read that there is some connection between nicotine and people not developing ulcerative colitis. This is a severe intestinal disorder with no cure.

    In a UK study they tripped over the fact that people who smoked never ever developed UC. Since then they have been trying to find the connection and how to connect it to humans without the harmful side effects of nicotine.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    Andie, the link seems to work for me.

    The only harmful side effect of nicotine is that fact that it's addictive and makes you want to smoke tobacco which is where the harmful substances reside.

    If they could alter the nicotine molecule to do the good things without being addictive they might have something going on...

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I honestly don't know how anyone can smoke. People ask me if I was ever curious to try smoking. Curious? About what...lung cancer? COPD? Heart disease? Or was I supposed to be curious about getting yellowed teeth, aged skin, smelly breath, smelly clothes? Hahaha...honestly are these people kidding?

     




    I quit a long time ago.... and thankfully none of my children picked up the habit. I don't see the e-cigs as a path keeping people from smoking. I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I honestly don't know how anyone can smoke. People ask me if I was ever curious to try smoking. Curious? About what...lung cancer? COPD? Heart disease? Or was I supposed to be curious about getting yellowed teeth, aged skin, smelly breath, smelly clothes? Hahaha...honestly are these people kidding?

     




    I quit a long time ago.... and thankfully none of my children picked up the habit. I don't see the e-cigs as a path keeping people from smoking. I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.



    Good for you for quitting. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I honestly don't know how anyone can smoke. People ask me if I was ever curious to try smoking. Curious? About what...lung cancer? COPD? Heart disease? Or was I supposed to be curious about getting yellowed teeth, aged skin, smelly breath, smelly clothes? Hahaha...honestly are these people kidding?

     




    I quit a long time ago.... and thankfully none of my children picked up the habit. I don't see the e-cigs as a path keeping people from smoking. I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.



    Good for you for quitting. 



    Ditto. I have had friends and family who went thru hell in their attempts to quit.

    Was always thrilled when each of them was finally able to do it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    I quit a long time ago.... and thankfully none of my children picked up the habit. I don't see the e-cigs as a path keeping people from smoking. I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good for you for quitting. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ditto. I have had friends and family who went thru hell in their attempts to quit.

    Was always thrilled when each of them was finally able to do it.

    [/QUOTE]


    I had tried a variety of methods to quit... accupuncture, the patch, hypnosis.....it was finally my youngest asking me to quit that got to me.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:




    I quit a long time ago.... and thankfully none of my children picked up the habit. I don't see the e-cigs as a path keeping people from smoking. I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.



    Good for you for quitting. 



Ditto. I have had friends and family who went thru hell in their attempts to quit.

Was always thrilled when each of them was finally able to do it.




I had tried a variety of methods to quit... accupuncture, the patch, hypnosis.....it was finally my youngest asking me to quit that got to me.

 



That is such a sweet story.

I basically made my husband's life a living hell in regards to smoking to get him to quit.

He had been smoking since he was a teenager. In our first three weeks together he threw in the towel at age 26.

I took a slightly different approach from your youngest. :)

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

     I'm witnessing many kids picking up the e-cigs.



    Isn't the real question whether they ever switch from e-cigs to real cigs?

     

    Because the e-cigs themselves aren't harmful.



    Because the e-cigs themselves aren't harmful.

     

    That we know of yet.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:

     

    The NYT also ran a much more panicked article, which focused on the possibility of kids gulping down an entire vial/bottle of the liquid used to fill the e-cig chambers:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/24/business/selling-a-poison-by-the-barrel-liquid-nicotine-for-e-cigarettes.html?hpw&rref=health

    My thoughts there (which apparently got some self-righteous folks screaming at me):

     

    Plenty of household chemicals, things found in medicine cabinets, things found in liquor cabinets, and so on can kill children.

    This article expels a cubic mile of hot air in the course of its scare-mongering, but the real issue typically boils down to one factor alone: parenting.

    This is yet another issue that needs responsible parenting. We don't "need a law" for everything...

    At least, unlike the NYT's scare piece on legalized marijuana, it actually is possible to die from the subject...

     

    _______________________________________________'

     

     

    As for this OP: generally a path from.

    If a path too, again, parenting.

    The only sense in which government should really be stepping in is if there is evidence that they are being directly pushed to children - as in they used to hand out cigarettes to kids, etc.

    The main angle people complain about is that they are sold with fruity flavors. Well I have some friends trying to quit, and guess what: They're using e-cigarettes with fruity flavors, not the 'tobacco' flavor.

    Kids aren't the only people who like sweets, as America's collective waistline conclusively proves.

    But at the end of the day, nicotine itself is safe and even possibly beneficial in small regular doses - if you are willing to stand the nags of addiction. (Foolishly, I smoked cigarettes for a few years during college, so I'm well aware....  1-1.5 pack/day. Ugh.)

    Unless you go drinking the vial of liquid, e-cigs are perfectly harmless (though now I wonder about propylene glycol. Isn't that a toxic preservative/anti-fungal? Believe it's used in the humidifying part of cigar humidors).

    I suspect that people who start on e-cigs with their fruity flavors and not-burning-harsh smoke aren't going to switch to cigarettes. If they do, again, so what? If you aren't going to make cigarettes illegal....this really isn't a concern of government's.

     

     



    WNDYW,

     

    I read the other nytimes piece you cited.

    I also read some other articles about e-cigs.

    I do not think you can say that they are perfectly harmless, as you did in your post.

    Below is one of those articles I mentioned. This article talks about research which found metals in the vapor of e-cigs.

     

     

    Electronic cigarettes are becoming big business. Users say the devices have helped them stop smoking traditional cigarettes and that "vaping" is safer than smoking tobacco. 

    But, the tiny devices haven't been on the market long enough to have any long-term health studies conducted on the very vapor they send straight into the lungs of its users.

    So, the ABC15 Investigators wanted to take a closer look at the contents of this vapor. We enlisted the help of a lab to test the vapor you're breathing in each time you use an e-cigarette.

    "VAPING IS A WAY OF LIFE"

    Travis Saul started using electronic cigarettes a year ago. Now, he says, "Vaping is a way of life."

    He said he turned to e-cigarettes so he could quit smoking traditional ones. "If you want to quick smoking, vaping will work," he said.

    The father of two wanted to kick his 18-year-old habit for his family. "I'd have to go outside to smoke," he said.

    He didn't want his kids to be around him while he was smoking.

    "...second-hand is just as bad as the smoking," he said.

    Now, Saul owns his own company selling electronic cigarettes in stores and online. He says they are completely safe.

    BREATHING IN ULTRA-FINE PARTICLES

    Dr. Stanton Glantz is a professor at the University of California at San Francisco and one of the leading researchers on e-cigarettes.

    He believes calling ‘vaping' safe is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

    "If you are around somebody who is using e-cigarettes, you are breathing in ultra-fine particles and you are breathing in nicotine," he said.

    You can buy e-cigarettes without nicotine in them, but most of them contain the addictive chemical.

    "It heats up a mixture of nicotine, proplynegycal and other chemicals, and that heated mixture becomes an aerosol, which is inhaled deeply into your lungs to deliver the addictive drug nicotine," Glantz said.

    Current research shows there is detectable levels of nicotine in non-smokers who hang around people using e-cigarettes.

    COPPER, NICKEL AND TIN FOUND

    "I would say e-cigarettes are the cigarettes of the 21 st century," according to scientist Dr. Prue Talbot. She and her team at the University of California Riverside are among the first in the country to analyze the vapor in e-cigarettes.

    The ABC15 Investigators had her team test two brands of e-cigarettes using a smoking machine and a specialized microscope.

    The first test was for Smoking Everywhere Platinum. It showed metals.

    "There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel."

    Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets.

    "I think the fact there is significant amount of tin in these pellets is important. This means the people using this product are going to be inhaling the tin," said Dr. Talbot.

    The doctor continue to say that inhaling tin directly or even second-hand can be dangerous.

    "Nanoparticles in general can be toxic," she said. "In the case of e-cigarettes, the nanoparticles would tend to go deeper into the respiratory system."

    "These particles are so very small they go from your lungs straight into your blood stream, and carry the toxic chemicals into your blood, and then appear in various organs," said Dr. Glantz.

    The research team has tested many brands of e-cigarettes, and each one had a different result. But, keep in mind, each brand is manufactured differently.

    For example, the second brand we had the lab test, Mistic, had no tin in the vapor. But, the lab found concentrations of copper.

    Supporters say e-cigarettes are only 10 to 20 percent as polluting as tobacco cigarettes. But Dr. Glantz said that's still not good. "On an absolute whole, it's still a bad thing," she said.

    Both Smoking Everywhere and Mistic are made in China. We contacted both companies, but we have not received a response.

    THE FEDS WEIGH IN

    There is currently no federal regulation of the products even though they use nicotine. However, Arizona has made it illegal to sell them to minors.

    We asked the Food and Drug Administration about any future plans for possible regulation.

    "Electronic cigarettes are battery-operated products that turn nicotine, which is highly addictive, and/or other chemicals into a vapor that is inhaled by the user. The FDA regulates electronic cigarettes that are marketed for therapeutic purposes as drugs or devices. The FDA intends to propose a regulation that would extend the agency's 'tobacco product' authorities -- which currently only apply to cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco -- to other categories of tobacco products that meet the statutory definition of 'tobacco product.' Further research is needed to assess the potential public health benefits and risks of electronic cigarettes and other novel tobacco products," the agency said in a statement.

    Even though FDA only currently regulates electronic cigarettes if they make a therapeutic claim, consumers may submit...

     

     

     

     

    http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/are-e-cigarettes-safe-to-use-new-research-shows-metals-found-in-vapor-of-electronic-cigarettes

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to redmassguy's comment:

    E CIGS ARE  HARMLESS. MY SPOUSE HAS BEEN USING THEM FOR MONTHS. WATER VAPOR ONLY ACCORDING TO DR.



    You are incorrect.

    The above article and research study is but one of many out there which backs up the conclusion the e-cigs are not harmless. People are inhaling nicotine and several different kinds of metals. Even the people around them have found to have these substances in their lungs.

    If you want to find at least one study that backs up your claim that they are harmless, then you should find one and post the link.

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to redmassguy's comment:

    E CIGS ARE  HARMLESS. MY SPOUSE HAS BEEN USING THEM FOR MONTHS. WATER VAPOR ONLY ACCORDING TO DR.



    You are incorrect.

    The above article and research study is but one of many out there which backs up the conclusion the e-cigs are not harmless. People are inhaling nicotine and several different kinds of metals.



    It focused on only two of myriad manufaturers.

    One had tin, the other had copper.

     

     

    Of course, it should be possible to require manfucaturers to produce the solution in such a way that there are no such metals in them.



    Actually, in the first company, what they found was not just tin.

    "There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel."

    Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets."

     

    Both companies also had nicotine of course. And just like with cigarettes and second hand smoke, it turned out there is the same effect with e-cigs on people near people using e-cigs.

     

    Bans are starting to go up on the public use of e-cigs similar to the bans on the public use of cigarettes.

    Of course one of the key factors is the health of those around people using e-cigs.

    We have generations of people who were forced to inhale secondary smoke because there wee no laws to stop those around them from smoking and those of us growing up had parents who refused not to smoke around their growing children.

     

    IMO the bans against the public use of e-cigs will start to rapidly increase...esp. as the public learns that these things are far from harmless in more ways than one.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to redmassguy's comment:

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to redmassguy's comment:

    E CIGS ARE  HARMLESS. MY SPOUSE HAS BEEN USING THEM FOR MONTHS. WATER VAPOR ONLY ACCORDING TO DR.



    You are incorrect.

    The above article and research study is but one of many out there which backs up the conclusion the e-cigs are not harmless. People are inhaling nicotine and several different kinds of metals.



    It focused on only two of myriad manufaturers.

    One had tin, the other had copper.

     

     

    Of course, it should be possible to require manfucaturers to produce the solution in such a way that there are no such metals in them.




    THANK YOU. MY SPOUSE USES A BRAND RECOMMENDED BY OUR DR. I SUPPOSE NOW OUR DARLING ANDIEJEN HAS A MEDICAL DEGREE AND KNOWS BETTER THAN A DR?



    Excuse me. My fault.

    I made the mistake of engaging a gremlin on the boards, redmass.

    Or do you prefer GODVERNMENT?

     
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    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    THANK YOU. MY SPOUSE USES A BRAND RECOMMENDED BY OUR DR

    She must be a saint.

     

     
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    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    Of course one of the key factors is the health of those around people using e-cigs.


    Andie, the "smoke" is water vapor. There's really nothing really bad about e-cigs if you discount the addiction factor.

     

     
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    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    THANK YOU. MY SPOUSE USES A BRAND RECOMMENDED BY OUR DR

    She must be a saint.

     



    Or live in another country.

    A long distance marriage.

    Cannot imagine this on a daily basis unless she was as looney as he is.

     
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    Re: ARE E-CIGARETTES A PATH TO TOBACCO OR FROM IT?

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    THANK YOU. MY SPOUSE USES A BRAND RECOMMENDED BY OUR DR

    She must be a saint.

     



    Or live in another country.

    A long distance marriage.

    Cannot imagine this on a daily basis unless she was as looney as he is.




    No question..... definitely not my gremlin.

    You can have this one....lol.

     

     
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