Austerity bites!

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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     


    I don't need snark when your inability to post a shred of evidence shows how inept you are at this debate thing.

    For the person who lives in his alternate reality like you do:

    Some inconvenient truths.

    The tax rates  for the highest brackets in the 60's was 65-90% and yet that was the longest period of sustained economic growth in the country

    The second longest period of economic growth immediately followed the Bush Sr tax increase and the Clinton tax increase.

    Even St Ronnie raised taxes 11 times during his turn at the helm.

     




    I've posted two countries that did this successfully.  That's evidinece.  Here are two more:

     

     

    Ireland (in the 90's)

    Turkey

    Of course, you will claim that neither of these are evidence either, because you are ideologically wed to the big ideolgical economic lie.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     



    Chile? -  Really?

     

    I guess the gov't's stimulus of $4 Billion, equaling 5% of GDP was just 'austerity' in disguise.

    Chile's finance minister said the economy should not enter in a recession in 2009 thanks to government moves to ease the impact of a global downturn, an interview published in daily El Mercurio said on Saturday.

    Minister Andres Velasco told the newspaper he did not expect gross domestic product to fall in two consecutive quarters of this year, which would technically constitute a recession.

    Earlier this week, the government announced a $4 billion economic stimulus plan to spur employment and growth despite the global financial crisis, aiming for an expansion of between 2 percent and 3 percent of GDP this year.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/01/10/chile-economy-minister-idUSN1027661220090110

     


    Latvia? Really?

    In 2012, 4 yrs after Latvia's meltdown, GDP is still a full 15% below pre-crisis levels.


    What enabled Latvia to survive the crisis were EU and IMF bailouts  – whose payments will soon fall due.

     

    And when 10% of the population just gets up and leaves that is a huge hit to both GDP and GNP:


    Latvians resigned themselves to the situation and left. Demographers estimate that 200,000 have departed the past decade – roughly 10 per cent of the population – at an accelerating rate that reflects the austerity being inflicted....If a similar percent left the US, some 30 million would exit.  Where would they go? Mexico?  Surely, this model cannot be reproduced in any sizeable country.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/25/latvias-fake-economic-model/

     

    Ireland in the 90's was a booming economy so you're just ignorant of reality as usual.

     

     




    You clearly do not understand the principle here.  The principle is that what you call austerity, in most cases is not austerity at all, but a reduction in the growth of spending.  Point one.

     

    Point two:  expansionary fiscal contraction puts more money back into private hands where it works by limiting  the amount ofthe economy the government consumes.  when you considerthat government, local federal, state, consume somewhere in the vicinity of 50% of our GDP, we have a problem.

    As far as your cherry picking details on the countries mentioned where it has been tried, well, nothing works perfectly for ever.  Remember that economies go through cycles.  The question is, does long term borrowing help or hurt?  I gave you four examples where it helped.  Now for some places where execessive government spending has not helped:

    Japan

    USA

     But, here is the big economic lie:  that there isn't a cost to long term borrowing as a means to grow the economy now.  there is, and the cost is huge.  Greece went through it, Japan is about to go through it, and I fear we will as well.  Places that are more contractionary in their government spending will fare better in the long run.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    As far as your cherry picking details on the countries mentioned where it has been tried, well, nothing works perfectly for ever.  Remember that economies go through cycles.  The question is, does long term borrowing help or hurt?  I gave you four examples where it helped.  Now for some places where execessive government spending has not helped:

     




    HA, ha, ha... You're hilarious!

     

    I just posted concrete evidence that shows specifically that you're full of crap and you just keep regurgitating echo chamber talking points.

    Ignorance is bliss....

     

     




    No, you didn't.  You cherry-picked reports over a couple of decades.  And you still don't understand expansionary fiscal contraction. 

     

    But, I give up.  Instead, why don't you tell me how borrowing a trillion plus a year indefintiely from future generations will help our economy?

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    As far as your cherry picking details on the countries mentioned where it has been tried, well, nothing works perfectly for ever.  Remember that economies go through cycles.  The question is, does long term borrowing help or hurt?  I gave you four examples where it helped.  Now for some places where execessive government spending has not helped:

     




    HA, ha, ha... You're hilarious!

     

    I just posted concrete evidence that shows specifically that you're full of crap and you just keep regurgitating echo chamber talking points.

    Ignorance is bliss....

     

     




    No, you didn't.  You cherry-picked reports over a couple of decades.  And you still don't understand expansionary fiscal contraction. 

     

    But, I give up.  Instead, why don't you tell me how borrowing a trillion plus a year indefintiely from future generations will help our economy?

     




    Typical nonsense.

     

    You offer no proof to back up your inane posts and all you can do is cry "cherry picking" because your posts are worth less than the pixels it takes to post them. Every country you named is either in an extended recession because of austerity or did the exact opposite of what you say they did.

    To you ideologues, any evidence to the contrary must be called 'cherry picking' because you have no other recourse. You can't argue facts and you can't post any evidence.

    Here's a tip, just because an idea is floating in your empty head and you write it down doesn't make it true.

    Hey nitwit, your "expansionary fiscal contraction" is a theory that has never been used, much less proven, in the real world.

    Figures, the idiots who think Ayn Rand was an economist prefer to live in their own alternate reality.

    See ya in the funny papers Bozo.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, I'll stipulate to oyur slightly insane post.  Here's the point:


    You are unwilling to explain how borrowing a trillion plus a year  indefinitiely is a proper economic course. 

    Thought so.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    I got this feeling that austerity measures were way cool when Obama was pushing for them, but are bad now that he isn't.



    Austerity is a bad plan no matter who is pushing it. You are really only able to see issues in relation to party. That's very sad and a huge part of the problem in this country.

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    All austerity is created equal. Or in other words, because Obama was pushing precisely the same measures Greece did....    

     

     

     



    Is austerity, the term, that is, an indication of actual cuts, or just cuts in the expected rate of growth?

    I fail to see any real austerity going on here.

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    Here's more evidence you're full of schtup.


    The study concluded that Irish growth in the 1980s was actually lower than would have been expected without the fiscal contraction using the UK growth during the same period as a comparison.

    An IMF working paper on Expansionary Austerity and the Expansionary Fiscal Contraction hypothesis that examined changes in policy designed to reduce deficits found that austerity had contractionary effects on private domestic demand and GDP.

    Research carried out by the United Kingdom's Office for Budget Responsibility  indicates that the austerity policies enacted in the United Kingdom had the effects of reducing the 2011-2012 economic growth by 1.4 percent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansionary_fiscal_contraction

     


    Now slink away and find some other economic phrase that you don't understand, nor can prove.

     

     {break}

     

    Wikpedia.  Now's there a credible source.  Sigh.  Why no austrian school, or chicago school refrences?

    I've shown you cases where it worked in some measure.  Can't help that you are ideologically wed to faux-Keynsian economics. 

     

    If your approach is so sound, and so able to fix the economy, why not just print up a million or so dollars for everyone in this country?  Won't that cause the economy to just explode?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    Spin ain't workin mate.  I was against Obama's austerity RE: SS and Medicaid and am against the repubicans propsing the same.

    Can YOU say the same?



    Really so you were not in favor of the Ryan budget?

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    I've shown you cases where it worked in some measure.  Can't help that you are ideologically wed to faux-Keynsian economics. 

     

     

    If your approach is so sound, and so able to fix the economy, why not just print up a million or so dollars for everyone in this country?  Won't that cause the economy to just explode?

     

     




     

    Here's your problem: You haven't "shown" anything.

    You named a few countries with no supporting facts, I posted the data on those countries that shows you're an idiot and yet you just continue on in your ideological ignorance.

    [/QUOTE]

     

    you are stuck in the Krugman syndrome, find things that support your point of view even if they are wrong.  but, again, I'll stipulate to your argument. So:

    Tell me again why borrowing and spending a trillion dollars a year is such a great idea.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]I fail to see any real austerity going on here.



    Bingo.

     


    If people are arguing that European austerity has most severely impacted the economy of countries implementing the strictest austerity.....

     

    ...then it's no more than rude and meaningless noise for someone to simper, "oh YEAH!? Well Obama..he wanted austerity. But you're criticizing austerity! And I call you a poopoodummyhead librul! So HAH! Hypocrite!"

     

     

     

    Same old same old, and quite boring.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think I have mentioned Obama once.

    i think my point is that EFC is likely to work. However, you need to have a reality-based view of where the economy really is, and not this fantasy being put forth by progressives.

    but, again, I'll stipulate to your argument. Just tell me how borrowing and spending a trillion dollars every year for many many years is going.

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!


     
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    Re: Austerity bites!

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:





    BERNIE AND SISTER!  WICKED COMMIES!

     
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    Re: Austerity bites!


     
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    Re: Austerity bites!


     
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