Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

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    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!

     



    Talk about a dumb opinion.  The Admin didn't give Fallujah back, the Iraqi's couldn't keep the bad guys out, end of story.  Its not surprising considering we destroyed their military, kicked out their experienced soldiers, and then recreated their amry with scraps and light armaments.  Our presense there is over and thankfully we have pulled our guys out of an active combat role.  If the Iraqi's want American fire power they can easily hire one of our many mercenary groups.  US interests are not served by continuing to pour american treasure into a bottomless pit.  

     

    President Obama has led a war,  halfway around the world,  for 5 years. Talk about a bottomless pit.

    "575 US troops died in Afghanistan during the Bush presidency. By August 18, 2010, following two troop surges initiated by President Obama, that number had doubled. Today, over 1500 US troops have died in Afghanistan since President Obama took office—and yet, little in that war-torn country has changed."

    As usual, liberal peaceniks only feign outrage at Republican Presidents.

    Is President Obama a "neo-con", given that he has led a foreign war for 5 years and counting, with little or nothing to show for it?



    Yet another war that was started by bush with zero exit strategy.Afghanistan crippled the Soviet union and was major reason for its collapse. I have zero interest in continuing our military presence Afghanistan, at this point it is a serious waste of resources.



    Afghanistan was started by Bush? Are you kidding? Do you not remember 9/11 and bin Laden? Remember the whole thing about going after bin Laden for 9/11? In fact at that point pretty much the entire world was behind us on that one. 



    True, but only to the extent of finding and punishing the perpetrators.  The Obama administration, with a cold trail, accomplished this in 2 years and change.  Don't you at least wonder what our committment in Afghanistan would have looked like without the Iraq distraction?  Or with a more competent leadership?



    You're getting into a different discussion. The issue was about someone saying Bush STARTED Afghanistan. He didn't. End of story.

     



    Last time I checked al-Qaeda isn't a government of any nation. It's true we were attacked on 9/11 and because of the results, we lost that war. Are you so warm blooded that you can not comprehend that maybe it was bin ladens plan to get us stuck in the quagmire that is Afghanistan. That nothing would be more damaging to us then being stuck in a prolonged war that would put a serious strain on our military and economic resources, you know the exact same thing that helped to end the soviet union. You have demonstrated one of the biggest issues in America today. A total and utter lack of critical thinking.

    Almost nothing in history or politics is so cut and dry that you can say things like end of story, and by making such a statement you cut yourself off from any new information.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:


    Yet another war that was started by bush with zero exit strategy.Afghanistan crippled the Soviet union and was major reason for its collapse. I have zero interest in continuing our military presence Afghanistan, at this point it is a serious waste of resources.

     

     




     

    Hard to say.

     

    Iraq was a pointless debacle, but I think we had very real interests in toppling the Taliban so we could go after Al Queda/Bin Laden.

    It doesn't seem like it would be very feasible to go after Al Queda in Afghanistan/Pakistan without taking control of some of the areas. If there was a way to get them without toppling the Taliban, then maybe it would be in our national interest to do that (despite how evil the Taliban tends t be).....but I'm not aware of anyone making a case that it was possile.

    If it wasn't possible, then it was (a) do nothing in response to the attack, (b) go to war.



    Was a full invasion really necessary? The Taliban were already fighting a losing war against the northern alliance and as we know now, bin laden wasn't even in Afghanistan, but in Pakistan under the protection of the people we were paying billions of dollars to look for him. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

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    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!

     



    Talk about a dumb opinion.  The Admin didn't give Fallujah back, the Iraqi's couldn't keep the bad guys out, end of story.  Its not surprising considering we destroyed their military, kicked out their experienced soldiers, and then recreated their amry with scraps and light armaments.  Our presense there is over and thankfully we have pulled our guys out of an active combat role.  If the Iraqi's want American fire power they can easily hire one of our many mercenary groups.  US interests are not served by continuing to pour american treasure into a bottomless pit.  

     

    President Obama has led a war,  halfway around the world,  for 5 years. Talk about a bottomless pit.

    "575 US troops died in Afghanistan during the Bush presidency. By August 18, 2010, following two troop surges initiated by President Obama, that number had doubled. Today, over 1500 US troops have died in Afghanistan since President Obama took office—and yet, little in that war-torn country has changed."

    As usual, liberal peaceniks only feign outrage at Republican Presidents.

    Is President Obama a "neo-con", given that he has led a foreign war for 5 years and counting, with little or nothing to show for it?



    Yet another war that was started by bush with zero exit strategy.Afghanistan crippled the Soviet union and was major reason for its collapse. I have zero interest in continuing our military presence Afghanistan, at this point it is a serious waste of resources.



    Afghanistan was started by Bush? Are you kidding? Do you not remember 9/11 and bin Laden? Remember the whole thing about going after bin Laden for 9/11? In fact at that point pretty much the entire world was behind us on that one. 



    True, but only to the extent of finding and punishing the perpetrators.  The Obama administration, with a cold trail, accomplished this in 2 years and change.  Don't you at least wonder what our committment in Afghanistan would have looked like without the Iraq distraction?  Or with a more competent leadership?



    You're getting into a different discussion. The issue was about someone saying Bush STARTED Afghanistan. He didn't. End of story.

     



    Last time I checked al-Qaeda isn't a government of any nation. It's true we were attacked on 9/11 and because of the results, we lost that war. Are you so warm blooded that you can not comprehend that maybe it was bin ladens plan to get us stuck in the quagmire that is Afghanistan. That nothing would be more damaging to us then being stuck in a prolonged war that would put a serious strain on our military and economic resources, you know the exact same thing that helped to end the soviet union. You have demonstrated one of the biggest issues in America today. A total and utter lack of critical thinking.

    Almost nothing in history or politics is so cut and dry that you can say things like end of story, and by making such a statement you cut yourself off from any new information.



    Sigh....what a waste of time you turned out to be.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    We've wasted trillions of dollars on these wars, injuring or killing thousands of young lives in the process. Now that we are swimming in debt because of these stupid wars, the House GOP wants to cut things like food stamps and unemployment benefits for the poor to pay for their follies without raising revenues so much as a centimeter.

    What sick minds they have!  Vote accordingly.



    We are not swimming in debt because of these wars. What is the national debt now? $16 trillion? What did  the Iraq War cost $2 trillion? That will grow if you count the costs to treat wounded vets, but so with the spending from the other sources whcih dwarf what was spent on the wars in Iraq, Afghanistn etc.

    Put down the DNC manual and do some meditation.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    (REPEAT due to senisitve poster)

    OK General, not that you have the slightest qualification to judge what would have worked, but just how many decades, how many lives, and how much money should be spent cleaning up Bush's failed attempt to "bring democracy to the middle east"?

     



    We did establish a democracy!
    de·moc·ra·cy (d-mkr-s)

     

    n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies 1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.  

     

    They had elections and elected representatives.   After 2009 the jihadist knew all they had to do was wait it out, because the leadership now was just a "paper tiger" that didnt have the resolve any longer and would flee!   They were right!




    Hogwash.....Democracy is alien to them.  Iraq is an artificial nation cobbled together by foreign interests.  They are basically three countries trying to be one.  There will never be any democracy of multi-ethnic and religious groups working together in harmony.  The sooner we accept this, the better off we'll be. 

     



    Democracy is alien to them. Can you please email President Obama and let him know. He thinks this Arab Spring BS is about democracy. NOT!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

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    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!

     



    Talk about a dumb opinion.  The Admin didn't give Fallujah back, the Iraqi's couldn't keep the bad guys out, end of story.  Its not surprising considering we destroyed their military, kicked out their experienced soldiers, and then recreated their amry with scraps and light armaments.  Our presense there is over and thankfully we have pulled our guys out of an active combat role.  If the Iraqi's want American fire power they can easily hire one of our many mercenary groups.  US interests are not served by continuing to pour american treasure into a bottomless pit.  

     

    President Obama has led a war,  halfway around the world,  for 5 years. Talk about a bottomless pit.

    "575 US troops died in Afghanistan during the Bush presidency. By August 18, 2010, following two troop surges initiated by President Obama, that number had doubled. Today, over 1500 US troops have died in Afghanistan since President Obama took office—and yet, little in that war-torn country has changed."

    As usual, liberal peaceniks only feign outrage at Republican Presidents.

    Is President Obama a "neo-con", given that he has led a foreign war for 5 years and counting, with little or nothing to show for it?



    Yet another war that was started by bush with zero exit strategy.Afghanistan crippled the Soviet union and was major reason for its collapse. I have zero interest in continuing our military presence Afghanistan, at this point it is a serious waste of resources.



    Afghanistan was started by Bush? Are you kidding? Do you not remember 9/11 and bin Laden? Remember the whole thing about going after bin Laden for 9/11? In fact at that point pretty much the entire world was behind us on that one. 



    True, but only to the extent of finding and punishing the perpetrators.  The Obama administration, with a cold trail, accomplished this in 2 years and change.  Don't you at least wonder what our committment in Afghanistan would have looked like without the Iraq distraction?  Or with a more competent leadership?



    You're getting into a different discussion. The issue was about someone saying Bush STARTED Afghanistan. He didn't. End of story.

     



    Last time I checked al-Qaeda isn't a government of any nation. It's true we were attacked on 9/11 and because of the results, we lost that war. Are you so warm blooded that you can not comprehend that maybe it was bin ladens plan to get us stuck in the quagmire that is Afghanistan. That nothing would be more damaging to us then being stuck in a prolonged war that would put a serious strain on our military and economic resources, you know the exact same thing that helped to end the soviet union. You have demonstrated one of the biggest issues in America today. A total and utter lack of critical thinking.

    Almost nothing in history or politics is so cut and dry that you can say things like end of story, and by making such a statement you cut yourself off from any new information.



    Sigh....what a waste of time you turned out to be.



    Go sigh yourself.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    Now where are those maps that cheney and his secret enegry task force drew up locating those Iraq's oil field back in 2001

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    Now where are those maps that cheney and his secret enegry task force drew up locating those Iraq's oil field back in 2001

    Probably in the same place where they keep President Obama's academic records.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    From Robert Gates memoir:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/01/07/top-10-revelations-from-robert-gatess-memoir/

    2. Contempt for Vice President Biden
    Mr. Gates expresses particular dissatisfaction with Vice President Joe Biden. He describes Mr. Biden as a “man of integrity” who “has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.” Specifically, Mr. Gates said he opposed Mr. Biden’s proposed limited strategy in Afghanistan to focus on counter-terrorism: “Whac-A-Mole hits on Taliban leaders weren’t a long term strategy,” he writes.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    Now where are those maps that cheney and his secret enegry task force drew up locating those Iraq's oil field back in 2001

    Probably in the same place where they keep President Obama's academic records.

     




    Good one

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    Former SOD Gates book supports that the administration was more concerned with politics than what was best for the military of the countries interests.

    Im sure the left will just critisize Gates or ignore/play down!

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In a new memoir, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is opening up for the first time about his years inside the cabinets of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. In more than 600 pages, “Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War” offers a detailed history of battling with Congress and taking on the Pentagon bureaucracy.

    But it’s Gates’ scathing critique of President Obama’s leadership as commander-in-chief and the performance of his administration on national security that is raising eyebrows across Washington.

    Gates served as defense secretary from 2006-2011, leading the Pentagon through some of the most difficult periods of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Gates closes his memoir by revealing he is to be buried in Arlington Cemetery’s Section 60, the final home for many killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. “The greatest honor possible would be to rest among my heroes for all eternity.”

    Statements like that have always made Gates a highly respected figure on both sides of the aisle in Washington. And it’s also why many observers find “Duty” a surprisingly damning account, belying Gates’ reputation for an even-tempered, soft-spoken, professional calm.

    But as Gates admits, he was frequently “seething” and “running out of patience on multiple fronts.”

    Gates writes in an excerpt published in The Wall Street Journal that he frequently fantasized about quitting as defense secretary in front of the congressional panels he so despised. “All too often during my 4½ years as secretary of defense, when I found myself sitting yet again at that witness table at yet another congressional hearing, I was tempted to stand up, slam the briefing book shut and quit on the spot. The exit lines were on the tip of my tongue: I may be the secretary of defense, but I am also an American citizen, and there is no son of a dog in the world who can talk to me like that. I quit. Find somebody else.”

    Indeed, Gates’ contempt for Congress is obvious in the memoir in a way it never was at the witness table. “I saw most of Congress as uncivil, incompetent at fulfilling their basic constitutional responsibilities (such as timely appropriations), micromanagerial, parochial, hypocritical, egotistical, thin-skinned and prone to put self (and re-election) before country,” fumes Gates in a portion reported by the Journal.

    Losing Faith in the Afghanistan Strategy

    The most serious charge made by the former secretary of defense against the commander-in-chief is that Obama sent 30,000 troops into harm’s way in Afghanistan with little to no confidence in the success of their mission.

    According to published reports in both The Washington Post and The New York Times, Gates writes of the president's 2009 decision to surge troop levels in Afghanistan that the president was “skeptical, if not outright convinced it would fail.”

    Gates ultimately concluded the president had lost faith in his own Afghanistan strategy following a National Security Council meeting in March 2011. Gen. David Petraeus, then CENTCOM commander overseeing both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, had recently made remarks to the press suggesting discomfort with a fixed date for withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    According to Gates, President Obama began the meeting by blasting military leaders for “popping off to the press,” saying he would not tolerate any delay of the start of the Afghan withdrawal. Obama then made a veiled threat to the military leadership, Gates writes, concluding, “‘If I believe I am being gamed…’ and left the sentence hanging there with the clear implication the consequences would be dire.”

    Gates continues to say he felt “pretty upset” with Obama’s comments, feeling that “implicitly accusing” Petraeus and others “of gaming him in front of thirty people in the Situation Room was inappropriate, not to mention highly disrespectful of Petraeus. As I sat there, I thought: the president doesn’t trust his commander, can’t stand [Afghanistan President Hamid] Karzai, doesn’t believe in his own strategy, and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him, it’s all about getting out.”

    The alleged mistreatment of military leaders by the president and his administration appears to be major theme of his memoir, based on multiple reports. “All too early in the [Obama] administration,” he writes, “suspicion and distrust of senior military officers by senior White House officials — including the president and vice president — became a big problem for me as I tried to manage the relationship between the commander in chief and his military leaders.”

    Frustration with Afghanistan policymaking also led to Gates contemplate resignation, according to The Times. After a contentious 2009 meeting to assess the way forward in Afghanistan, Gates writes he “was deeply uneasy with the Obama White House’s lack of appreciation — from the top down — of the uncertainties and unpredictability of war.” He recalls, “I came closer to resigning that day than at any other time in my tenure.”

    White House “Breaches of Faith”

    According to The Post, Gates described 2010 as “a year of continued conflict and a couple of important White House breaches of faith,” including over the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy and defense spending.

    Despite several months of debate and deliberation on the how to eliminate the ban on gays serving in the military, Gates said he felt “blindsided” when “on one day’s notice” Obama informed him and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mike Mullen “that he would announce his request for a repeal of the law.” Obama’s request would come even as the Pentagon was still trying to work out details about implementation of the repeal.

    A second disappointment came as the battle over defense spending intensified in Washington. “I was extremely angry with President Obama,” Gates writes. “I felt he had breached faith with me…on the budget numbers.”

    These two disappointments left Gates feeling “that agreements with the Obama White House were good for only as long as they were politically convenient.”

    Harsh Words for Vice President Biden

    Gates’ memoir is unsparing in its criticism of Vice President Joe Biden. He calls Biden “a man of integrity,” but says he thinks Biden “has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.” He goes on to accuse Biden of “poisoning the well” against the military leadership on a number of issues within the White House.

    Most Controlling White House on National Security Since Nixon

    In the Wall Street Journalexcerpt, Gates writes that the Obama White House was “by far the most centralized and controlling in national security of any I had seen since Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger ruled the roost.”

    “Most of my conflicts with the Obama administration during the first two years weren't over policy initiatives from the White House but rather the [national security staff's] micromanagement and operational meddling, which I routinely resisted,” Gates writes.

    According to The Post, relations with the White House national security team reached a low point in 2011 during deliberation of U.S. intervention in Libya. When Gates learned White House staff were “talking about military options with the president without Defense being involved,” he decided to put the White House on an information diet. He issued instructions inside the Pentagon: “Don’t give the White House staff and [national security staff] too much information on the military options. They don’t understand it, and ‘experts’ like Samantha Power will decide when we should move militarily.”

    And it wasn't just him who was offended by the White House’s “controlling nature.” The Obama White House’s “determination to take credit for every good thing that happened while giving none to the career folks in the trenches who had actually done the work, offended Secretary [of State Hillary] Clinton as much as it did me.”

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to twelve_angry_men's comment:

    So, as someone who serves at the pleasure of the PotUS, when Gates didn't like the way his boss, the duly elected CinC, did things he acted like a petulant child and withheld vital information critical to making informed decisions.

    Ya, the guy sure has "integrity".

     

    When Gates learned White House staff were “talking about military options with the president without Defense being involved,” he decided to put the White House on an information diet. He issued instructions inside the Pentagon: “Don’t give the White House staff and [national security staff] too much information on the military options. They don’t understand it, and ‘experts’ like Samantha Power will decide when we should move militarily.”




    Once again, this is why IMO anyone elected as President should have a military background of some sort.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    The POTUS and his admin were counter productive and were making military decisions based on the political winds of the moment instead of what was best for the country or national security!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!




    And how many lives are you ok with in keeping it?  I know Biden meant as far as The President withdrawing troops from an area we did not ned to be.  I like the nation buidling liberals who think we should stay in Iraq. Our troops are better off home and other places

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to steven11's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!




    And how many lives are you ok with in keeping it?  I know Biden meant as far as The President withdrawing troops from an area we did not ned to be.  I like the nation buidling liberals who think we should stay in Iraq. Our troops are better off home and other places



    Im not ok with any lives being lost. Our military men and women volunter to serve our country and face evil in the name of security.

    They did that honorably in Iraq and sacrificed more than most can fathom and now we have just thrown all of that sacrifice away because politicians making decisions based on the political winds of the time!

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    The POTUS and his admin were counter productive and were making military decisions based on the political winds of the moment instead of what was best for the country or national security!




    That ain't as bad as an POTUS and his admin making military decisions based on war profiteering

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Biden Flashback: Iraq Will Be One of Obama's Greatest Achievements

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to steven11's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Its a shame this admin gave back fallujah after so many of our troops fought and died to secure it.

    We could of left some fast attack teams in close proximity and they could have prevented this huge setback!

    But, it was more about appeasing than doing the right thing for the US interests or Iraq!




    And how many lives are you ok with in keeping it?  I know Biden meant as far as The President withdrawing troops from an area we did not ned to be.  I like the nation buidling liberals who think we should stay in Iraq. Our troops are better off home and other places



    Im not ok with any lives being lost. Our military men and women volunter to serve our country and face evil in the name of security.

    They did that honorably in Iraq and sacrificed more than most can fathom and now we have just thrown all of that sacrifice away because politicians making decisions based on the political winds of the time!




    yes, we are grateful to our vets.  But we cannot stay there forever. The cost of lives and the dollar cost is too much.  Bush never really had an exit plan except for a withdrawel date. 

     
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