Border Fence

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would we want to JUST grant a path to citizenship with out trying to stop or at least slow the human trafficking and smuggling that is directly related to this issue?

    What you are saying is "we need to treat these people with respect and grant them citizenship even though they broke the law but, fcvk all the innocents women and children being killed and enslaved in the same process"

    How is that humane???







     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    pfft, as long as those that make it get a path to citizenship why try to stop this. Right?

    Six people face federal indictments for running a widespread illegal immigrant prostitution ring that stretched from accross the US.

    The suspects advertised women for 'massage services' on backpage.com, and leased apartments in Bellevue and Kirkland, Scottsdale, Arizona, Chicago, Illinois, and Falls Church/Tysons Corner, Virginia, according to U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan.

    The six men were indicted for conspiracy to transport individuals for prostitution, conspiracy to use a communications facility to promote prostitution and conspiracy to engage in money laundering.

    "These defendants exploited vulnerable young women immigrants to enrich themselves," said Durkan. "We will work with our partners to stop this exploitation. I commend the member of our community who alerted law enforcement.

    or this

    4:30 AM EDT, Fri June 21, 2013

    (CNN) -- Authorities found four human bodies abandoned in the Arizona desert Thursday.

    Initial indications point to exposure as the probable cause of death, said Victor Brabble, a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

    "It is probable that they are immigrants attempting to cross into the U.S.," he said. "However, we don't have enough to draw a conclusion on it now."

    The bodies were found near Gila Bend, Arizona, about 70 miles north of the border. They have not been identified, the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office said.

    Immigrants often try to cross the Sonoran Desert's harsh terrain, and there are many heat-related deaths, Brabble said Thursday.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    pfft, as long as those that make and it get a path to citizenship why try to stop others from coming. Right?

    Six people face federal indictments for running a widespread illegal immigrant prostitution ring that stretched from accross the US.

    The suspects advertised women for 'massage services' on backpage.com, and leased apartments in Bellevue and Kirkland, Scottsdale, Arizona, Chicago, Illinois, and Falls Church/Tysons Corner, Virginia, according to U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan.

    The six men were indicted for conspiracy to transport individuals for prostitution, conspiracy to use a communications facility to promote prostitution and conspiracy to engage in money laundering.

    "These defendants exploited vulnerable young women immigrants to enrich themselves," said Durkan. "We will work with our partners to stop this exploitation. I commend the member of our community who alerted law enforcement.

    or this

    4:30 AM EDT, Fri June 21, 2013

    (CNN) -- Authorities found four human bodies abandoned in the Arizona desert Thursday.

    Initial indications point to exposure as the probable cause of death, said Victor Brabble, a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

    "It is probable that they are immigrants attempting to cross into the U.S.," he said. "However, we don't have enough to draw a conclusion on it now."

    The bodies were found near Gila Bend, Arizona, about 70 miles north of the border. They have not been identified, the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office said.

    Immigrants often try to cross the Sonoran Desert's harsh terrain, and there are many heat-related deaths, Brabble said Thursday.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    "Dumb argument. Even if we decided to deport them all, 7-12 million would not be deported at once so you are making a wild exaggeration of the cost."


    Completely idiotic argument. The only part of the argument that taking their precious time to do it would do away with is the cost of building new facilities. Whenever they are held, it will still cost the same money.

    But if they're going to save money to do it as slowly as you think is so wicked smaht...     they'll just be trickling right back in.

     

    "Plus once we started deporting in a serious manner a huge number would leave on their own."

    My argument is "dumb," but your Einstein-grade work is based purely on a self-serving assumption? Kidding me?

     

     

    "Secondly, border security is a fundamental responsibility of the government. "

    This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, which is that the "deport them all" idea is stupid and unworkable.

     

    "Remove the incentives for them to come here, so they self deport:

    1. No benefits for those here illegally

    2. Jail for employers who hire illegals

    3. Deport illegals when detected in the course of law enforcement

    4. Decriminalize drug use

    5. No federal money for any city or juristiction that declares itself a "sanctuary city" or refuses to cooperate with federal authorities to enforce immigration laws."

     

    1.Benefits: The right keeps saying it. Funny they can never prove it. At most they come up with one at a time.

    A dishonest argument.

    2. I already suggested going very hard against employers. If you are going to call my argument "dumb", you might want to avoid agreeing with it.

    3. They already deport violent ones. We do not have the facilities or resources to deport them all, even as they discover them. We don't even have room for our own citizens in existing jails. Hear what the Supreme Court ordered CA to do?

    Maybe you should do some research.


    4. Ok, and I certainly have agreed with that elsewhere for reasons that have nothing to do with illegals.

    5. Ok.

    But again, each of the numbered points you made doesn't contradict anything I said: That the round them up and deport them all approach is foolishly inefficient and expensive.

     

     

     

     

    "You are making a false argument."

    Calling the other side dumb is not an argument. Agreeing with things your opponent has said and then calling them dumb....even worse.

     



    Sorry, I don't have the time or inclination to search this place to find out what you have said elsewhere.

    First of all, how many people are really saying round them up and deport them? No one of any importnace for sure and I do not even see anyone here saying that. So - nice strawman.

    Then you claim from that false premise that it is too expensive. Well no one is going to deport millions of people all at once so mulitplying by 7-10 million as you suggested is dumb. ANd to deny that a huge portion of the 7-1o million would self-deport once they saw a concerted action to go after them shows you lack some level of common sense.

    We do not deport violent aliens as a matter of course. Many states let them go before determining their criminal status. They do not cooperate with federal programs to detain violent criminals based on some stupid notion of bias or whatever.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Border Fence


    Mass deportation - never going to happen in peace time.

    Grant the illegals here a path to citizenship and get serious about securing the border.

    Fences are ok in areas where people can just walk accross but, what is required is alot more border agents 1-2 for every mile of border with Mexico. Vehicles; trucks, all terrain. Regional headquarters every 50 miles or so with real time survelliance equipment and direct communication with agents in specific areas and air survelliance with fast response personnel.

    Last: Inprison smugglers and coyotes with extended sentences and develop a viable way for quick deportation of the others caught. When it becomes difficult and risky to try to get here illegally less will try or be forced to try.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Mass deportation - never going to happen in peace time.

    Grant the illegals here a path to citizenship and get serious about securing the border.

    Fences are ok in areas where people can just walk accross but, what is required is alot more border agents 1-2 for every mile of border with Mexico. Vehicles; trucks, all terrain. Regional headquarters every 50 miles or so with real time survelliance equipment and direct communication with agents in specific areas and air survelliance with fast response personnel.

    Last: Inprison smugglers and coyotes with extended sentences and develop a viable way for quick deportation of the others caught. When it becomes difficult and risky to try to get here illegally less will try or be forced to try.

     



    Securing the border has been the "carrot" since 1986, and it STILL HASN'T HAPPENED!

    Look, what is missiing here is common sense, and some honesty.  You can't solve the illegal immigration problem until you solved the root cause, a porus border.

    The Democrats do not want top hear this and argue a bit too strongly that it won't work.  That emotive response tips their hand.  They don't want to have to explain to the newly minted Democrats that Gammie and Grampie can't walk acros sthe border and become citizens, too.

    Secure the border.  Put everything else on hold until the border is reasonably secure.

    That is the only sane position.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Not already against the law to hire"illegals", but since soooo many are soooo worked up about the IRS, let us not forget the fact it is also against the law to pay employees of any kind under the table. To say lots of people and businesses do it does not justify it one bit.

    Forget moral values, forget integrity...it is against the law. Some of those people and businesses will only hire those who accept being paid under the table.  They force those people to forgo a job opportunity or break the law...against their will.

    Of course it is also against the law to not pay the minimum wage. Not a living wage...but the legal minimum wage. 

    It is hardly just a black and white issue...no pun or slur implied. The employers who "hire" people here illegally, commit more than one crime themselves. 

    And the argument that they cannot afford to pay the prevailing wage, and follow the rules is a strawman's argument.

    Just a way to deflect they are trying to justify a means to an end. The end being lowering their overhead which in turn ups their bottom line,  regardless of how many laws they themselves are breaking themselves. 

     

                                                                 

     



    Who's arguing in favor of those who hire illegals? I don't think anyone is defending these people. Simple solution...don't hire illegals and they'll eventually leave. In order to do this we need to crack down harder on businesses that hire illegals. It's ILLEGAL to hire illegal immigrants....so let's start enforcing this.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    46&2,

    !st, my post really should have started , Not is it ALREADY against the law to hire illegals but...

    2nd, my points about the other side of the coin should have been more direct.

    Of course I am not advocating hiring illegals. However enforcement is a nightmare in so many ways.

    The strong point I was going for is akin to the crime of prostitution. There is a major difference in the way our system, and society, views the prostitute and and how they treat and view the client/john.

    The prostitute is viewed as pond scum, wh*re, etc. by society in general. They are the ones thrown in jail and prosecuted.

    The client/john is rarely arrested. Their names are rarely printed in the newspaper. Yet they have committed the same crime. Engaging in prostitution. If they did not "hire" prostitutes, then no demand...supply would dry up.

    There is also the power difference The employer/john has the money...the employee/prostitute needs the money. Rarely is this the profession they chose to be in.

    Same thing with those that hire illegals and those who are illegals. Border fence to keep the illegals out, etc. But not this big great movement to hunt down, find and prosecute to the max allowed those that hire them.

    Illegals=pond scum and worse. Employers of illegals=fill in the blank. 

    And enforcing against the employers costs more money , more "big government" picking on the small businessman. Hard to get a lot of people behind that right now.

     

    Maybe that is a better version of my 1st post on this point. Certainly different way of going about it.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Border Fence


    Simple..no fence guarantees a never ending supply of government dependent future voting Democrats....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Border Fence


    and dont say it cant be built...Panama Canal???  Hoover Dam....Boston Harbor Tunnel project (threw that in for laughs)  we can build anything we want.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    Not already against the law to hire"illegals"

    ----------------------------

    Yes it is.

    8 USC § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens

    (a) Making employment of unauthorized aliens unlawful (1) In general

    It is unlawful for a person or other entity—

     

    (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3) of this section) with respect to such employment, or

    (B)

    (i) to hire for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) of this section or

    (ii) if the person or entity is an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 1802 of title 29), to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) of this section.



    Gregin,

    Not already against the law to hire"illegals"

    As I replied to 46&2, that line was supposed to read:

                            Not is it ALREADY against the law to hire "illegals" etc.

     

    That was sloppy on my part. My bad. Mea culpea. Etc.

    Like the site from the United States Code (USC). 

    If you read my prostitution analogy from my 2nd swing at the plate in trying to make the point, the sites should prove to be far less dry than the USC... not to mention any case law. :)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Border Fence

    pfft, as long as those that make and it get a path to citizenship why try to stop others from coming. Right?

    Six people face federal indictments for running a widespread illegal immigrant prostitution ring that stretched from accross the US.

    The suspects advertised women for 'massage services' on backpage.com, and leased apartments in Bellevue and Kirkland, Scottsdale, Arizona, Chicago, Illinois, and Falls Church/Tysons Corner, Virginia, according to U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan.

    The six men were indicted for conspiracy to transport individuals for prostitution, conspiracy to use a communications facility to promote prostitution and conspiracy to engage in money laundering.

    "These defendants exploited vulnerable young women immigrants to enrich themselves," said Durkan. "We will work with our partners to stop this exploitation. I commend the member of our community who alerted law enforcement.

    or this

    4:30 AM EDT, Fri June 21, 2013

    (CNN) -- Authorities found four human bodies abandoned in the Arizona desert Thursday.

    Initial indications point to exposure as the probable cause of death, said Victor Brabble, a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

    "It is probable that they are immigrants attempting to cross into the U.S.," he said. "However, we don't have enough to draw a conclusion on it now."

    The bodies were found near Gila Bend, Arizona, about 70 miles north of the border. They have not been identified, the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office said.

    Immigrants often try to cross the Sonoran Desert's harsh terrain, and there are many heat-related deaths, Brabble said Thursday.

     

    Mass deportation - never going to happen in peace time.

    Grant the illegals here a path to citizenship and get serious about securing the border.

    Fences are ok in areas where people can just walk accross but, what is required is alot more border agents 1-2 for every mile of border with Mexico. Vehicles; trucks, all terrain. Regional headquarters every 50 miles or so with real time survelliance equipment and direct communication with agents in specific areas and air survelliance with fast response personnel.

    Last: Inprison smugglers and coyotes with extended sentences and develop a viable way for quick deportation of the others caught. When it becomes difficult and risky to try to get here illegally less will try or be forced to try.

     
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