CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    The CBO is....all together now, a "nonpartisan" branch of the Congress....


    So it's findings are always clearly above reproach...unless it irks liberals, then they are subject to criticism...


    The Congressional Budget Office is out with its long-term budget and economic projections.


    What the CBO does write is that one of the downward pressures on the labor force is Obamacare. As the report finds:


     "Over the next few years, CBO expects that the rate of labor force participation will decline about 1/2 percentage point further... the most important of those factors is the ongoing movement of the baby-boom generation into retirement, but federal tax and spending policies will also tend to lower the participation rate. In particular, certain aspects of the Affordable Care Act will tend to reduce labor force participation, with the largest effect stemming from the subsidies that reduce the cost of purchasing health insurance through the exchanges. Because the subsidies decline with rising income (and increase with falling income) and make some people financially better off, they reduce the incentive for some people to work as much as they would without the subsidies.


    [This is common sense, something lacking in those who worship Big Government....]



    "We won't rehash the debate here over whether or not it's a good thing for the welfare state to provide so much that people will choose not to work - but it's pretty undeniable at this point that ACA is disincentivizing work for Americans in an era where we're wondering if the decline in labor force participation is the new normal."


    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/kevinglass/2014/08/27/cbo-report-obamacare-denting-labor-force-n1883893" rel="nofollow">http://townhall.com/tipsheet/kevinglass/2014/08/27/cbo-report-obamacare-denting-labor-force-n1883893


    To paraphrase Thatcher, "eventually the socialists will run out of other people to work,  to pay for the handouts"....

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]


    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    "... but it's pretty undeniable at this point that ACA is disincentivizing work for Americans in an era where we're wondering if the decline in labor force participation is the new normal."

    If the fact that people will only have to work 1 1/2 full-time jobs instead of 2 or 2 1/2 full time jobs to afford healthcare then that's a 'disincentive' I can get behind.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

     Obamacare was touted as a wonderful plan to make those who could afford health insurance but didnt buy it, to pay their fair share...that was a lie.


    Obamacare is just another massive boondoggle welfare program, led by incompetent bureaucracy.


    Leading to the usual side effect of encouraging dependency, and discouraging self reliance and work..more helpless Government dependents, more Democratic voters.


     


     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]

    The reason health insurance exists is because health care is too expensive for anybody to be self reliant.  Insurance is a bet against yourself - you hope you live your whole life without ever getting your money's worth, and if you are unlucky enough that you do spend more than you put in, then no matter how responsible you tried to be, you're a burden to your fellow policy holders.  I do find that wrong - both ethically and from a free market perspective.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]


    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.

    [/QUOTE]


    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...

    [/QUOTE]

    What's this?  An idea besides "push the reset button"?  This would have been worth mentioning back in 2010, when you weren't whacking off to Scott Brown centerfolds.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]


    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.

    [/QUOTE]


    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...

    [/QUOTE]


    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.

    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I don't follow.

    I guess I would say that Obamacare doesn't impact accessibility to healthcare, seeing it is only healthcare insurance?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, so that was the point.

    Progressives will never get tired of taking other people's money and telling them what to do with what's left.

    of course one should take care of their own healthcare.  If that isn't obvious, even to progressives, how can we have a logical discussion?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]


    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.

    [/QUOTE]


    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...

    [/QUOTE]


    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.

    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The exchanges do nothing for competition. That's a big lie.  It is price fixing and creating a captive market.  Progressives think this is how free markets operate.  That's the problem.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]


    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.

    [/QUOTE]


    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...

    [/QUOTE]


    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.

    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     [/QUOTE]

    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.

    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...

    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...

    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "

    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:



    In response to high-road's comment:


    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]


    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    [QUOTE]


    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]


    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.



    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.


     





    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...


    [/QUOTE]


    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.


     [/QUOTE]

    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..


    Dems own the failure.


    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...


    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...


    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "


    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance


    [/QUOTE]


    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.


    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.


    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts


    The wingnuts own the mandate!


    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.


    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.


    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors


    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)


    http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182#I


    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to high-road's comment:


    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     



    In response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     



    In response to miscricket's comment:


    [QUOTE]



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    [QUOTE]



    In response to slomag's comment:


    [QUOTE]



    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.




    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?






    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.


     


     


     


     





    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...


     


     





    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


     


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.


     


     [/QUOTE]

    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..


     


    Dems own the failure.


     


    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...


     


    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...


     


    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "


     


    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance


     


    [/QUOTE]


    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.


     


    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.


     


    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts


     


    The wingnuts own the mandate!


     


    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.


     


    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.


     


    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors


     


    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)


     


    http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182#I" rel="nofollow">http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182#I" rel="nofollow">http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182#I


     


    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...


    [/QUOTE]
    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?


    The only relevant fact is:


     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...


     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    n response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to high-road's comment:
     
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    in response to miscricket's comment:


    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     response to slomag's comment:




    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.




    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.




    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...




    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     


    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.


    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...


    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...


    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "


    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance


     


     


     


    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.


    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.


    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts


    The wingnuts own the mandate!


    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.


    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.


    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors


    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)


    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...



    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?


    The only relevant fact is:


     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...


     


    [/QUOTE]


     Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!


    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.


    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.


    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?


    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.


    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 was is old history too.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, so that was the point.

    Progressives will never get tired of taking other people's money and telling them what to do with what's left.

    of course one should take care of their own healthcare.  If that isn't obvious, even to progressives, how can we have a logical discussion?

    [/QUOTE]

    Subsidies are for the middle class.  When it comes to health care, the government has been taking money from the middle class for years and giving it to others to subsidize their health care - the elderly, the poor, the veterans, the incarcerated.  That they are now getting some small amount of that back would seem to contradict your complaint.

    "I'm so smart and obviously correct" he thought to himself "that I'm forced to direct my logic and brilliance at fellow MENSA member ComingLiberalCrackup." 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    n response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to high-road's comment:
     
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    in response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     response to slomag's comment:

     




    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.




    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.




    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...




    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     


    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.


    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...


    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...


    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "


    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance


     


     


     


    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.


    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.


    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts


    The wingnuts own the mandate!


    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.


    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.


    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors


    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)


    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...


     


    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?

     

     

    The only relevant fact is:

     

     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!

     

    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.

     

    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.

     

    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?

     

    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.

     

    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 was is old history too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     





    In response to high-road's comment:
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    n response to high-road's comment:
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    In response to high-road's comment:
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    n response to miscricket's comment:
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
     
    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.

    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.



    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?



    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.


     
    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...
     
    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.

    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.



    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...


     
    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...
     
    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "

    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance



    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.
    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.
    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts
    The wingnuts own the mandate!


    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.



    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.


     
    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors



    Nov. 23, 1993


    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)



    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ... 



    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?



    The only relevant fact is:


    NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...



    Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!
     
    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.
     
    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.
     
    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?
     
    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.
     
    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 is old history too.



    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?





    The entire wingnut premise of creating the individual mandate was 'personal responbility' and no 'freeloaders'.


    Are you saying that now the wingnuts believe in no 'personal responsibility'?


    Or that it's okay to be a 'freeloader' and pass the costs onto others?


    The underlying principal of the original wingnut mandate stayed the same, the only thing that changed was who wrote the bill ... this time around.


    Ya can't state one principal when drafting your two attempts at passing a mandate, and then turn around and expect people believe that concept is now somehow wrong only because of who wrote it into the bill this time .... well I guess you can, the wingnuts have proven me wrong.


    What earth shattering event happened between the previous wingnut's 2 bills requiring the mandate ... to the time it was included in the ACA proposal ... that would render the wingnut idea of the mandate moot ... other than Obama getting elected.


    The same is true for the exchanges.


     


    The wingnuts kept crowing about 'competition' and how it was a panecea for all that ails the system.


     


    Well, the exchanges provided one-stop comparison for various plans ... you know competition ... and now the wingnuts attack that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    n response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to high-road's comment:
     
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    in response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     response to slomag's comment:

     




    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     



    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.




    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...




    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     


    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.

     

    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...

     

    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...

     

    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "

     

    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.

     

    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.

     

    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts

     

    The wingnuts own the mandate!

     

    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.

     

    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

     

    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors

     

    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)

     

    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...

     

     


    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?

     

     

    The only relevant fact is:

     

     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!

     

    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.

     

    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.

     

    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?

     

    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.

     

    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 was is old history too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to completely absolve Republicans of ObamaCare.  But then you have to give them all the blame for the state of health care and insurance between the defeat of HillaryCare in 1994 and the passing of ObamaCare in 2010, meaning rate of costs increase, decline of quality, increase in uninsured, skyrocketing premiums, and record profits for insurance companies.  The party of no fought to do nothing, and they won for 15 years, so that's all on the GOP.  Fair, right?

     

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to completely absolve Republicans of ObamaCare.  But then you have to give them all the blame for the state of health care and insurance between the defeat of HillaryCare in 1994 and the passing of ObamaCare in 2010, meaning rate of costs increase, decline of quality, increase in uninsured, skyrocketing premiums, and record profits for insurance companies.  The party of no fought to do nothing, and they won for 15 years, so that's all on the GOP.  Fair, right?

     

     [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough. Neither Party addressed problems or issues with our health care system, with legislation targeting the problems, while keeping the free market system that had made our health care system the envy of the world...the best advanced medical treatement ...

    What the Democrats did in 2008 was inexcusable,...the equivalent of treating a mosquito bite with amputation...

    On the Feb. 21, 2010, edition of ABC's This Week, conservative columnist George Will -- a critic of the plan backed by President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats -- cited poll figures about Americans' satisfaction with their own health coverage.

    "When we started this health care debate a year ago, 85 percent of the American people had health insurance, and 95 percent of the 85 percent were happy with it," Will said during the show's roundtable discussion. "So there was no underlying discontent that you now postulate to drive this radical change."

    Ramming through a Government takeover of 1/6 of the private economy. Obamacare is the worst Legislation passed in 50 years...an atrociously drafted boondoggle.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to completely absolve Republicans of ObamaCare.  But then you have to give them all the blame for the state of health care and insurance between the defeat of HillaryCare in 1994 and the passing of ObamaCare in 2010, meaning rate of costs increase, decline of quality, increase in uninsured, skyrocketing premiums, and record profits for insurance companies.  The party of no fought to do nothing, and they won for 15 years, so that's all on the GOP.  Fair, right?

     

     [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough. Neither Party addressed problems or issues with our health care system, with legislation targeting the problems, while keeping the free market system that had made our health care system the envy of the world...the best advanced medical treatement ...

    What the Democrats did in 2008 was inexcusable,...the equivalent of treating a mosquito bite with amputation...

    On the Feb. 21, 2010, edition of ABC's This Week, conservative columnist George Will -- a critic of the plan backed by President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats -- cited poll figures about Americans' satisfaction with their own health coverage.

    "When we started this health care debate a year ago, 85 percent of the American people had health insurance, and 95 percent of the 85 percent were happy with it," Will said during the show's roundtable discussion. "So there was no underlying discontent that you now postulate to drive this radical change."

    Ramming through a Government takeover of 1/6 of the private economy. Obamacare is the worst Legislation passed in 50 years...an atrociously drafted boondoggle.

    [/QUOTE]

    The poll Will was sourcing was satisfaction with one's insurance plan.  Satisfaction with the cost of one's plan was about 60/40 in favor, and keep in mind more than half the country was already heavily subsidized, and of those that weren't subsidized by taxes, the majority were covered through their employers.  Very few people actually knew the costs of their own plans, so that's a very large 40%.

    Also, 15% of a country with a population of 300 million is 45 million uninsured, many of whom were excluded from the possibility of insurance.  Many of whom were dying because of their lack of insurance.  That's a pretty big number to just gloss over on the way to another spinning point.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to slomag's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    n response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to high-road's comment:
     
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    in response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     response to slomag's comment:

     




    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     



    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.




    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...




    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     


    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.

     

    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...

     

    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...

     

    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "

     

    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.

     

    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.

     

    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts

     

    The wingnuts own the mandate!

     

    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.

     

    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

     

    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors

     

    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)

     

    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...

     

     


    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?

     

     

    The only relevant fact is:

     

     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!

     

    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.

     

    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.

     

    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?

     

    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.

     

    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 was is old history too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to completely absolve Republicans of ObamaCare.  But then you have to give them all the blame for the state of health care and insurance between the defeat of HillaryCare in 1994 and the passing of ObamaCare in 2010, meaning rate of costs increase, decline of quality, increase in uninsured, skyrocketing premiums, and record profits for insurance companies.  The party of no fought to do nothing, and they won for 15 years, so that's all on the GOP.  Fair, right?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Kinda hard to 'absolve' the wingnuts when they attached 168 amendments to the bill as it made it's way through Congress.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to high-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    n response to high-road's comment:



    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


    In response to high-road's comment:
     
    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    in response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:


     response to slomag's comment:

     




    I appreciate that there's something inherently wrong with the idea that you are better off making less money.
     
    But on the other hand, there's something even more wrong with the idea that you're only working so you can afford to get sick.

     



    The idea of self reliance is seemingly alien to the progressive mindset....so the idea of working to make sure one is responsible and can pay for treatment for any health problems, and not be a burden to society , is wrong?




    All well and good except that the cost of health care has far outpaced inflation. People making minimum wage..or even twice minimum wage can ill afford to pay health bills should they get sick...even if they save every available penny. Self reliance is one thing..bankrupting people because they have the misfortune to become ill is something that no industrialized nation believes in..with the exception of the US.




    Then we should have enacted a plan to protect against catastrophic medical bills...not turned over 1/6 of the economy , our health care system,  and our freedom and autonomy, to incompetent Government bureaucrats...




    If ya'll don't like the individual mandate then you shouldn't have created the idea in the first place ... or put it into practice as a model for future healthcare reform.


    Sooo creating exchanges that fosters competition between insurers and lowers prices is a bad thing? Do tell.

     


    LOL.... facts are stubborn things....NO Republicans....ZERO Republicans...NADA Republicans, voted for Obamacare..

    Dems own the failure.

     

    The fact the Heritage Foundation in 1995 floated the idea of the individual mandate ....means nothing, except to demented moonbats...

     

    And, again, ObamaCare as implemented has no individual mandate, it is all free goodies...

     

    Aug 7: "A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions. "

     

    "The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.  
    The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Yes facts are a stubborn thing.

     

    Twice the wingnuts introduce bills containing the exact 'individual mandate' in Congress.

     

    The fact that they would now oppose it purely out of partisan politics just to oppose this admin is a non-sequiter. They created the mandate, tried to get it passed twice ... those are the facts

     

    The wingnuts own the mandate!

     

    You can run and hide or block your ears and stamp your feet but either way it doesn't change the legislative history of the mandate.

     

    Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

     

    Nov. 20, 1993
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)
    Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors

     

    Nov. 23, 1993
    Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770)
    Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)

     

    And there's also the inconvenient fact that your wingnut nominee for PotUS actually enacted the mandate ...

     

     


    Going way back to 1993 to try to link Republicans to the massive disaster known as ObamaCare ? Why not go back to Teddy Roosevelt?

     

     

    The only relevant fact is:

     

     NO Republicans voted for ObamaCare...the Dems totally own the trainwreck.....in 2010, 63 House setas flipped because the Dems voted for Obamacare...in 2014, it is incumbent Dem Senators's turn to rue the day they voted for the monstrosity...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Newsflash spanky, if you change your 'principals' more often than you change your underwear, then you ain't got principals, you got empty rhetoric.  HILARIOUS!!!!

     

    You don't know what a 'conservative' position is because it's constantly changing, your head is on a swivel following the echo chamber bs.

     

    Glad you admit that ya'll are a bunch of flip/flopping jellyfish, though.

     

    So why shouldn't those wingnut senators that created the mandate, and are still in office 'rue' their vote?

     

    Oh that's right, because voters like you keep your lips firmly pressed to their backsides ... forgive and forget is your mantra.... it has to be, in order to lie to yourself so badly.

     

    I guess nominating the 'severely' conservative ... father of the individual mandate ... Mittens ... all the way back in 2012 was is old history too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Have we mentioned no Republicans voted for ObamaCare? Zero. How can you possibly claim the GOP flipflopped, when they didnt go for the flop known as ObamaCare?

    [/QUOTE]

    The only thing the progressives prove by constantly going back to the well on the "republicans birthed the individual mandate" issue is that there are a lot of republicans that are liberal, or at least statist.

    i don't see how the above legislative references protect Obama, or the American people, from a disastrous policy of the government running health care.  It is bad for us all, no matter who does it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CBO Report: Obamacare Denting Labor Force

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only thing the progressives prove by constantly going back to the well on the "republicans birthed the individual mandate" issue is that there are a lot of republicans that are liberal, or at least statist.

    i don't see how the above legislative references protect Obama, or the American people, from a disastrous policy of the government running health care.  It is bad for us all, no matter who does it.

    [/QUOTE]

    But some (Lugar, Grassley & Bond) of the 20 Republicans (out of 43) who co-sponsored the bill with the individual mandate in 1993 were still in office in 2010, and would not even come to the table on Obamacare.  That's evidence, if not out-right proof, that the Republicans were making a calculated move to stone-wall the President, regardless of what they thought of the policy.  

    The bottom line is Obamacare was close to the last Republican compromise on record.  So either the GOP made a calculated decision to block the legislation to deny Obama a 'win', or the party reversed itself so drastically in 15 years that its own co-sponsors no longer believed in it.  I'm not sure which is the uglier truth for the GOP.

     

     

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