Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    The left is enraged with the President and the Tea Party is nipping at Boehner; we might have reached the right level of shared pain.

    Obama faces heat from left on possible entitlement spending cuts



    Washington (CNN) -- Sensing a shift away from their priorities, progressive Democrats and advocacy groups warned Thursday they could turn on President Barack Obama if a deficit-reduction deal reduces benefits in entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

    "Depending on what they decide to recommend, they may not have Democrats," said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, of whether his Democratic colleagues would support a compromise. "I think it is a risky thing for the White House to basically take the bet that we can be presented with something at the last minute and we will go for it."

    Others were more blunt.

    "If President Obama supports cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security benefits, that will be a defining moment of presidential weakness -- and put all Democrats facing re-election in 2012 at risk," said Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, a political advocacy group.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    So there are no opinions about this?  Or are we all too busy responding to insipid threads about how stupid each party's leaders are?  Debating "Strategery", Internets, 57 states, which state Concord is in, viewing Russia from Palin's back deck, or waiting for Biden to gaffe again or Romney for flip flop (it could happen any minute).

    I guess nothing surprises me.
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal? : There are a myriad of stories on what's going on in the negotiations. It's hard to form an opinion when all the reporting so far is from unnamed sources and rumor. No one from either party, as far as I know, has stated any firm positions. With the exception of the intransient wingnut position of no new revenue.
    Posted by 12-Angry-Men


    Don't you mean "With the exception of the intransient wingnut position of no having an adult conversation on entitlements.

    I believe the GOP has said that they are open to revenue discussion, even some Tea Party Frosh Reps, I know much to your mindsets chagrin.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal? : Don't you mean "With the exception of the intransient wingnut position of no having an adult conversation on entitlements . I believe the GOP has said that they are open to revenue discussion, even some Tea Party Frosh Reps, I know much to your mindsets chagrin.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe


    Here's the deal:  Obama has waded in late to a discussion between those who want to raise taxes, and those who want to cut spending.  His solution will be a little of both, which is half-a'ed.  The republicans will claim they managed to cut spending by $4 trillion over ten years, which means the deficit will still rise to at least $25 trillion by the end of ten years, hardly a win, and hardly looking out for the people.

    The democrats will get to raise taxes on corporate jets, rich people, and a few more non-protected classes of people.  Obama will claim a victory for the people, and will greatly increase his re-election chances.  The reality is that tax revenue will go down, we will see articles about the stalling corporate jet industry, and more jobs and revenue will move overseas.  Hardly a win for the people.

    The overall result will be that the middle class, the great middle class, which every politician supposedly swears they are protecting, will get hammered again.  Taxes in real dollars will go up, incomes will go down, and unemployment will stay high.  The housing market will continue to be on life support, and government budgets at he local, state, and federal level will continue to rise.

    So, that's my view as to what will happen with the debt ceiling.  thoughts?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    Besides, the discussion is not about the debt ceiling, it is about paying down our current debts.  Democrats want to raise the debt ceiling ( as do many republicans)  why?  So they can pay down the debt?  NO!!! SO THEY CAN BORROW MORE MONEY WE CAN'T PAY BACK!

    We are obligated to pay our debts, have plenty of cash flow to do so.  the whole discussion is about allowing more borrowing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    Besides, the discussion is not about the debt ceiling, it is about paying down our current debts.  Democrats want to raise the debt ceiling ( as do many republicans)  why?  So they can pay down the debt?  NO!!! SO THEY CAN BORROW MORE MONEY WE CAN'T PAY BACK! We are obligated to pay our debts, have plenty of cash flow to do so.  the whole discussion is about allowing more borrowing.
    Posted by skeeter20


    No we don't have adequate cash flow for the responsiblities we have currently.  That's why they are doing all this talking and why we are on the verge of default.  To get the cash flow you need in the future you have to cut spending or raise revenue.  Both will have to happen to have a chance at a deal.  And both sides are digging in their heels saying they wont go there (cuts for Dems and taxes for Reps)  It is not looking good...
     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    Reminds me of my kids fighting over toys. Gees!!!!  fair/flat tax = more money but less "BORG" control and spending cuts = more money but less control. We could let the SS/Medicare slide for a few years see what happens. 
    Posted by howiewho


    That is a no deal.  The tax would have to be higher across the board which means that the folks least able to pay extra would get hit the hardest: millionaires are not struggling in this economy.   Flat taxes are inherently regressive.  We have had a progressive tax system for 100 years or so and it is not going anywhere. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    With the latest Dem bluster it looks like the Dems are going to cause a financial crisis because they are refusing to have any discussion on entitlements.


    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    • Congressional Democrats oppose entitlement trims
    • Rhetoric heats up during debt negotiations
    • Meeting scheduled for Sunday at White House
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    Looks like Pelosi and Reid have scuttled any attempt for the big deficit correction.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal? : No we don't have adequate cash flow for the responsiblities we have currently.  That's why they are doing all this talking and why we are on the verge of default.  To get the cash flow you need in the future you have to cut spending or raise revenue.  Both will have to happen to have a chance at a deal.  And both sides are digging in their heels saying they wont go there (cuts for Dems and taxes for Reps)  It is not looking good...
    Posted by Reubenhop


    I understand your point, but I don't think it will work.  You can't continuously borrow money to pay responsibilities, you can't raise taxes because it will reduce the amount of capital available for wealth creation, which is taxed, i.e. total tax receipts will go down.  It is the worst possible combination.

    As far as responsibilities, I'll get right to the point:  social security is not a responsibility.  the courts have already ruled the government does not have to pay social security.  Not sure about Medicare, but I think it is reasonable that the same logic applies.

    Bottom line: $2 T over ten years is a joke.  We need radical change, and this isn't it.  this is the Bohner $60 billion in savings deal all over again.  Face it, neither side wants to make the cuts that are needed. 

     If we continue to borrow to pay supposed responsibilities, we will die as a country.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    With the latest Dem bluster it looks like the Dems are going to cause a financial crisis because they are refusing to have any discussion on entitlements. http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/08/congress.entitlements/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 STORY HIGHLIGHTS Congressional Democrats oppose entitlement trims Rhetoric heats up during debt negotiations Meeting scheduled for Sunday at White House
    Posted by massmoderateJoe


    Why no mention of the Republicans refusal to consider tax increases?  It takes two sides to have a political impasse.  You really should delete that "moderate" moniker.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal? : I understand your point, but I don't think it will work.  You can't continuously borrow money to pay responsibilities, you can't raise taxes because it will reduce the amount of capital available for wealth creation, which is taxed, i.e. total tax receipts will go down.  It is the worst possible combination. As far as responsibilities, I'll get right to the point:  social security is not a responsibility.  the courts have already ruled the government does not have to pay social security.  Not sure about Medicare, but I think it is reasonable that the same logic applies. Bottom line: $2 T over ten years is a joke.  We need radical change, and this isn't it.  this is the Bohner $60 billion in savings deal all over again.  Face it, neither side wants to make the cuts that are needed.   If we continue to borrow to pay supposed responsibilities, we will die as a country.
    Posted by skeeter20


    The country does not do "radical change". Even our Revolution was not "radical".
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    So where is this going?  Dem's postured Friday ; No Touching Entitlements.  GOP - responded no tax increases.  President continues to challenge those at table for a big deal, which he needs to avoid this discussion just before the election next fall, but he can't help demagoguing the GOP at the same time.

    Obama needs the big deal to survice in 2012.  The GOP wins with a samller deal, they aren't shutdown villians and there is a second bite at the apple next year.  DNC is looking at supporting the president's re-election or their own.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    So where is this going?  Dem's postured Friday ; No Touching Entitlements.  GOP - responded no tax increases.  President continues to challenge those at table for a big deal, which he needs to avoid this discussion just before the election next fall, but he can't help demagoguing the GOP at the same time. Obama needs the big deal to survice in 2012.  The GOP wins with a samller deal, they aren't shutdown villians and there is a second bite at the apple next year.  DNC is looking at supporting the president's re-election or their own.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe


    Good analysis. 

    It is important to the country that neither wins.  The Democrats will raise taxes and starve the people while claiming to help us, and the Republicans will not cut enough because they fear that 50% of the people are not behind them.

    We need massive, massive cuts to everything in order to live long and prosper.  Any other plan is just window dressing. 

    No way to raise enough taxes to get out of this.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from newman09. Show newman09's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    Massive cuts are needed and now! First off we need to go after cutting entitltments, there is just no way to sustain the current pay out. There are many wealthier seniors out their that do not need to collect $600. a month from SS. This would have an imediate impact on money coming out of the Treasury. Where that wealth line is drawn is for Washington to figure out.

    Medicare/Medicaid is a bigger and tougher problem. Again though, wealthier seniors need to cut back on what they're able to receive. Just like in assisted living care, what you pay out of your own pocket is determined by your wealth. Also (most, not all) wealthier seniors have private health care as well to off set. 

    Raising taxes in this economy would be devastating to all hindering job growth, especially on the small businesses side of things. We are going to need them if we want to see unemployment numbers drop.

    I hate to pick on our seniors, but many of them are receiving dollars from these entitlements, and can afford not to. With the boomer generation entering into the senior category, it's going to be impossible to keep up the current system.
     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    The rhetoric increases; Obama said he will not sign a short-term deal that would require revisiting the debt issue in a month or two, so I guess this means the President would let the country default if he can't get his way?

     

    WASHINGTON - President Obama this morning ramped up the pressure on Republicans to agree to compromise legislation that would increase the country’s debt limit while cutting $4 trillion in federal spending, including on entitlement programs, and raising taxes on wealthier Americans.

    “We might as well do it now, pull off the Band-aid, eat our peas,” he said during a news conference in the White House Briefing Room. “If not now, when? Let’s step up. Let’s do it.”

    Obama said he will not sign a short-term deal that would require revisiting the debt issue in a month or two.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    Misnomer alert: "fiscal conservative" = "deficit hawk"; there is nothing fiscally conservative about running a deficit.  Without closing some tax loopholes or otherwise increasing tax revenues, the U.S. will continue to run a deficit. 

    Is there anyone who seriously thinks that a default would be no big deal or that such fears are overblown, as some repubs (demint) are trying to claim...??
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    Misnomer alert: "fiscal conservative" = "deficit hawk"; there is nothing fiscally conservative about running a deficit.  Without closing some tax loopholes or otherwise increasing tax revenues, the U.S. will continue to run a deficit.  Is there anyone who seriously thinks that a default would be no big deal or that such fears are overblown, as some repubs (demint) are trying to claim...??
    Posted by MattyScornD

    That's one view; but we could increase revenues with a more business friendly government or we could decide to only spend what we make plus X % to pay down debt.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sshore123. Show sshore123's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    Is there anyone who seriously thinks that a default would be no big deal or that such fears are overblown, as some repubs (demint) are trying to claim...??

    Absolutely not, a default would be disastrous, but at the same time the US isn't going to magically default on 8/3 either.  You're smart enough to know that both side are now playing political hot potato since John Q (that includes posters in here I'm sure) don't know the difference.  The ceiling has nothing to do with the ability to pay debt, just taking on more.  DeMint is correct in that we could continue to make payments on the current debt, problem is we'd than be forced into massive spending cuts without new revenues or the ability to roll out more Treasury bills, a no win in either event without meaningful reform.  It's sad that it looks like the prez and Boehner had a deal ironed out, only for Pelosi & Reid (who did nothing with the past 2 budget cycles) joined Sanders and Co. in not agreeing to fall in line with any deal Obama makes, which prompted the frosh repub house member to have their hissy fit about taxes.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?

    In Response to Re: Close to a Debt Ceiling Deal?:
    The rhetoric increases;  Obama said he will not sign a short-term deal that would require revisiting the debt issue in a month or two, so I guess this means the President would let the country default if he can't get his way? By Donovan Slack, Globe Staff   WASHINGTON - President Obama this morning ramped up the pressure on Republicans to agree to compromise legislation that would increase the country’s debt limit while cutting $4 trillion in federal spending, including on entitlement programs, and raising taxes on wealthier Americans. “We might as well do it now, pull off the Band-aid, eat our peas,” he said during a news conference in the White House Briefing Room. “If not now, when? Let’s step up. Let’s do it.” Obama said he will not sign a short-term deal that would require revisiting the debt issue in a month or two.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe


    Not raising the debt ceiling does not put us in default.  that is a myth of the left.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share