Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    Maybe the president will have somethng Presidential for us at 2:00, I'm not holding my breath.

    During my commute this morning I listened to NPR and there was a good interview by Steve Inskeep with former Spkr Hastert.  Hastert has been making the rounds and has been talking about how to deal and compromise in a divided government he spoke about his negotiations with Clinton.  Inskeep pushed at the point that Boehner wasn’t been able to negotiate in 2011 and he walked away.  Inskeep then says so why should the President try to negotiate with him.

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.  To which Inskeep says what if it’s impossible to negotiate with Boehner, why should the President do it?.  To which Hastert responds, "if he doesn’t then he’s not doing his job".

    Bingo, exactly that is the leadership that we need.  The article link is below and it has a 4 minute audio track.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/10/08/230256554/hastert-primary-challenges-making-congress-kind-of-neurotic

    This situation kind of reminds me of Stealers Wheel, by Gerry Raferty; How does that song go crickets to left ...............no its.

     

    Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right, here am I stuck in the middle with you. Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you, Stuck in the middle with you, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    Blaming both sides only makes on 'in the middle' if both sides are wrong, and equally so.

     

     

    People seem to lose sight of that too easily these days.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    The problem with Hastert's analysis is previous instances of negotiation have always been tied to critical moments where those requesting concessions (the GOP) are essentially holding the financial stability of the country hostage.  In doing so previously, the President inadvertantly gave credibility to those tactics and the GOP has now gone to the well 3 times to do the exact same thing and now they have apparently decided they can do through hostage taking what they couldn't do legislatively, via the supreme court, or the 2012 election, and that is get rid of Obamacare.  The admin has already proposed a CR that is strikingly similar in raw numbers to that proposed in the Ryan budget.  Its not Obama's job to facilitate the GOP's priorities, they want to get rid of Obamacare then they have the proper channels to do so, this isn't that channel and therefore the Admin is correct in not negotiating.  

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Funny how he conveniently left out the next step in the Constitutional process:


    Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."


    So the process is that once the House writes their bill they send it to the Senate who gets a chance to propose or concur with Amendments. After the Senate holds a vote, that same bill is now intended to be voted on in the House.

    The House, so far, has repeatedly not allowed any vote on a CR that has gone through the process outlined in the Constitution.



    Funny how left left out the rest of his statement."if he (Obama) doesn’t then he’s not doing his job".

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    The problem with Hastert's analysis is previous instances of negotiation have always been tied to critical moments where those requesting concessions (the GOP) are essentially holding the financial stability of the country hostage.  In doing so previously, the President inadvertantly gave credibility to those tactics and the GOP has now gone to the well 3 times to do the exact same thing and now they have apparently decided they can do through hostage taking what they couldn't do legislatively, via the supreme court, or the 2012 election, and that is get rid of Obamacare.  The admin has already proposed a CR that is strikingly similar in raw numbers to that proposed in the Ryan budget.  Its not Obama's job to facilitate the GOP's priorities, they want to get rid of Obamacare then they have the proper channels to do so, this isn't that channel and therefore the Admin is correct in not negotiating.  



    It's not the proper channel because you say so?

    It appears that there is some movement in what I've been reading today on a number of fronts. One idea is to agree to discuss to refine ACA over a specific timeline tied to a clean CR and debt resolution; that sounds like a mini-grand compromise.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Funny how he conveniently left out the next step in the Constitutional process:


    Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."


    So the process is that once the House writes their bill they send it to the Senate who gets a chance to propose or concur with Amendments. After the Senate holds a vote, that same bill is now intended to be voted on in the House.

    The House, so far, has repeatedly not allowed any vote on a CR that has gone through the process outlined in the Constitution.




    Its becoming more obvious everyday that the GOP has abandoned the normal legislative processes that has served this nation for 250 years. 

    They now depend solely on shut-down and debt-ceiling extortion to make gains that they cannot get by Congressional votes.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    "presidential" for joe apparently means "doing whatever the hegemonists in the gop" want...

    ...including denying health insurance for millions and crashing the global economy worse than lehman bros. ever did.

     

    Gotta love that phony moderation pose.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Funny how he conveniently left out the next step in the Constitutional process:


    Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."


    So the process is that once the House writes their bill they send it to the Senate who gets a chance to propose or concur with Amendments. After the Senate holds a vote, that same bill is now intended to be voted on in the House.

    The House, so far, has repeatedly not allowed any vote on a CR that has gone through the process outlined in the Constitution.

     




     

    Its becoming more obvious everyday that the GOP has abandoned the normal legislative processes that has served this nation for 250 years. 

    They now depend solely on shut-down and debt-ceiling extortion to make gains that they cannot get by Congressional votes.

    [/QUOTE]

    They have a fine model to follow in the abandonment of normal legislative process the Democrats used to pass Obamacare.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    They have a fine model to follow in the abandonment of normal legislative process the Democrats used to pass Obamacare.


    At least you can admit that this is all about spite and nothing actually constructive.  Good.

     

    Now the healing can begin....

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BilltheKat. Show BilltheKat's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    I knew the wingnuts were apoplectic over Obamas second term win but I never thought they would resort to crying and burning down the house, all the while stomping their feet just to show their displeasure. Really childish.

    Those must have been some awfully sour grapes.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to BilltheKat's comment:

    I knew the wingnuts were apoplectic over Obamas second term win but I never thought they would resort to crying and burning down the house, all the while stomping their feet just to show their displeasure. Really childish.

    Those must have been some awfully sour grapes.



    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....this coming from the side who cried "Bush stole the election" for....well...you STILL cry about it....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

     

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Funny how he conveniently left out the next step in the Constitutional process:


    Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."


    So the process is that once the House writes their bill they send it to the Senate who gets a chance to propose or concur with Amendments. After the Senate holds a vote, that same bill is now intended to be voted on in the House.

    The House, so far, has repeatedly not allowed any vote on a CR that has gone through the process outlined in the Constitution.

     

     




     

     

    Its becoming more obvious everyday that the GOP has abandoned the normal legislative processes that has served this nation for 250 years. 

    They now depend solely on shut-down and debt-ceiling extortion to make gains that they cannot get by Congressional votes.



    They have a fine model to follow in the abandonment of normal legislative process the Democrats used to pass Obamacare.

     

     




     

    And years and years of history (1970s and 1980s) when Democrats had control and shutdown the govt 17 times..........and tied multiple laws, amendments, arguments, and negotiations, to the debt/ceiling/limit

    [/QUOTE]

    That never happened.  There has always been theater surrounding the debt ceiling, and there have been negotiations that lasted until the eleventh hour, forcing emergency spending bills.  But the Dems have never shut down the government as a negotiating tactic. 

    And remember - this isn't the Dems vs the Republicans or the House vs the Senate.  The Senate passed an amended CR, and Boehner won't allow the House to vote on it because he knows there are enough blue-state republicans to pass it.  So this all comes down to the will of a minority of the HOR.  

    This has never happened before, and it's embarrassing for the country.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to BilltheKat's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I knew the wingnuts were apoplectic over Obamas second term win but I never thought they would resort to crying and burning down the house, all the while stomping their feet just to show their displeasure. Really childish.

    Those must have been some awfully sour grapes.

     



    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....this coming from the side who cried "Bush stole the election" for....well...you STILL cry about it....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The world still cries about W's tenure.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    Hastert responded that regardless of what the Senate thinks funding has to start in the House and that the Speaker is Boehner.

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Funny how he conveniently left out the next step in the Constitutional process:


    Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."


    So the process is that once the House writes their bill they send it to the Senate who gets a chance to propose or concur with Amendments. After the Senate holds a vote, that same bill is now intended to be voted on in the House.

    The House, so far, has repeatedly not allowed any vote on a CR that has gone through the process outlined in the Constitution.

     

     



    Funny how left left out the rest of his statement. "if he (Obama) doesn’t then he’s  not  doing his job".

     

     

     

     




    What the heck does that have to do with the Constitutional process of passing appropriations bills? That's his opinion, only.

     

    Why would PotUS 'negotiate' over a bill that hasn't even gone through the process outlined in the Constitution?

    If one chamber refuses to follow the lawful process, what's there to 'negotiate'?

    It seems ridiculous that PotUS should have to 'negotiate' with wingnuts in the House doing their jobs and following the Constitution. They are trying to circumvent the process.

     

    If the wingnuts want a 'negotiation' then they should hold a vote on the CR bill that has met the Constitutional standard and then there would be a commom starting point, in writing, for debate.

    [/QUOTE]

    If we, the country fail, its a failure of all involved and its the ultimate failure of leadership.  Just like the coach who can't deliver even though he has great raw talent.  At sometime the leader owns it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to slomag's comment:

    And remember - this isn't the Dems vs the Republicans or the House vs the Senate.  The Senate passed an amended CR, and Boehner won't allow the House to vote on it because he knows there are enough blue-state republicans to pass it.  So this all comes down to the will of a minority of the HOR.  

    This has never happened before, and it's embarrassing for the country.  



    And no matter what any thinkgs about Obamacare, spending, or fruit roll-ups, the bottom line is that those are all questions separate from whether or not the GOP is engaged in an honorable demcratic strategy and deserves to be negotiated with.


    They are holding us all hostage in order to try to force Obama to cut off his nose to spite his face.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BilltheKat. Show BilltheKat's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to BilltheKat's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I knew the wingnuts were apoplectic over Obamas second term win but I never thought they would resort to crying and burning down the house, all the while stomping their feet just to show their displeasure. Really childish.

    Those must have been some awfully sour grapes.

     



    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....this coming from the side who cried "Bush stole the election" for....well...you STILL cry about it....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well it certainly was something to cry about. Apparently you feel good about King Georges reign of error.

    But I do see you finally (FINALLY) found a wingnut on these boards who feels America has devolved into a third world country, or have you conveniently forgot about that whole exchange?

    sigh

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    If we, the country fail, its a failure of all involved and its the ultimate failure of leadership.  Just like the coach who can't deliver even though he has great raw talent. 


    Great raw talent?

    Rembmer that poll I posted? Congress was rated better than Ebola, but worse than cockroaches.

     

    Bad analogy re: "raw talent"

     

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE] At sometime the leader owns it [/QUOTE]

    And that's why you are seriously deluded if you think Obama and the Dems are to blame for any of this.

    Obama didn't force a shutdown to defund Obamacare. To blame him for the shutdown is to claim precisely that, no matter how much anyone says the word "negotiate."

    The GOP needs to do this through elections and legislation.

     

     

    The Dems have never forced a shutdown to demand Rs defund their own legislation but even if they had this would STILL be wrong. And dangerous.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    Bottom line: Anyone blaming the Dems/Obama for the shutdown is saying "the ends justify the means."

     

    That principle doesn't belong in a free country.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    "presidential" for joe apparently means "doing whatever the hegemonists in the gop" want...

    ...including denying health insurance for millions and crashing the global economy worse than lehman bros. ever did.

     

    Gotta love that phony moderation pose.

     

     



    Well that's an uninformed load of BS.

    Presidential means leading, bringing arguing parties together and negotiating for the good of the country no matter how hard he has to hold his partisan nose.  After all the President is the leader of the country not just the Dem party.

    The Debt ceiling must be raised to pay for our previously voted on debt.

    ACA, I still believe a simpler more moderate step would be better which is why I do support the difficult repeal and replace philosophy.

    Many of the good items in ACA can be accomplished sepaerately from the omnibus ACA bill. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    They have a fine model to follow in the abandonment of normal legislative process the Democrats used to pass Obamacare.

     

     


    At least you can admit that this is all about spite and nothing actually constructive.  Good.

     

    Now the healing can begin....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess it was called reconciliation...............

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right,

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    Well that's an uninformed load of BS.

    Presidential means leading, bringing arguing parties together and negotiating for the good of the country no matter how hard he has to hold his partisan nose.  After all the President is the leader of the country not just the Dem party.




    And that's several metric tons of vapid BS.

    You aren't speaking specifically to what should be done because you know perfectly damn well the GOP is doing the wrong thing here.

    That's why you are reduced to sloganeering: "leading" "negotiate". You're repeating whatever Boehner says at press conferences.

     

     

    What you call "leading" is in reality giving in to Republican demands.

    Do you think agreeing to defund Obamacare would look like "leading" to anyone who voted for Obama because of his health care legislation? And then reelected him?

    Of course not. Which gives the lie to your position.

     

    You are being completely disengenuous when you pretend to frame the criticism as "leading."

    You are really saying "the ends justify the means. GOP! GOP! GOP!"

     

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