Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : And what would The SCOTUS do if laws could not be challenged?  Dissolve? There's 2 important things that need to be mentioned.  #1 There are tons of unconstitutional laws out there.  Its up to somebody to work within the system to get it in front of the SCOTUS.  Many of the legal decisions that have shaped what our culture and society has become took many arduous attempts and typically more failures than successes.  #2 SCOTUS decisions are generally a random walk.  Its all politics.  Many of the basic truths we, as Americans, take for granted were only determined fairly recently.  Not because the Constitution is poorly written or vague, but because the politics of the past took a lot of time and effort to be vanquished.
    Posted by movingtangent


    Agree.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : You do know that the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land" don't you?  Sure politics infect the Supreme Court (the justices are people under those robes after all) but stare decisis is basic to the system.  Things can change, but untiil they do, the law is the law.  And speaking of credentials, I have years studying (and teaching) in a formal educational setting and still more years working in the formal legal system.
    Posted by Reubenhop


    Reuben,
    You 2 are in violent AGREEMENT. There isn't too much daylight between your position and his, except the terminology. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : I view it that they were wong BEFORE 2002. To me, if the primary reason for the school is non-religious education, then it does not go astray of the establishment clause. This will be different if vouchers go to a seminary school.
    Posted by Charles2008


    We can civilly agree to disagree.  I don't see how its ok to subsidize a religious school even if only one class is overtly religious. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : Reuben, You 2 are in violent AGREEMENT. There isn't too much daylight between your position and his, except the terminology. 
    Posted by Charles2008


    No threat of violence here: I save that for the uncivil.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : We can civilly agree to disagree.  I don't see how its ok to subsidize a religious school even if only one class is overtly religious. 
    Posted by movingtangent


    I think it is teh same than the goverment working with some religious charity to work on a project that has nothing to do with religion, maybe a soup kitchen?
    But, I think we are veering too far off the topic of this discussion.

    Conservatives nowadays: Liar or Stupid?  I would say that 10% of them are liars and the rest is stupid.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : No threat of violence here: I save that for the uncivil.
    Posted by Reubenhop


    Just a joke. I always wanted to use this line.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    I love how the title of this posting board insists that Conservatives are either liars or just stupid when we have a president along with a House and Congress running up MASSIVE UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT in America and still expect Americans to pay for all their Socialistic government policies and programs. Fact is, if this was a business and any one of us tried to run the business the way the government is running the country now. We would all be fired, arrested and put in jail for a very long time. Yet, conservatives are the liars and stupid ones. Just look in the mirror lefties and see that the real enemy of America is you.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    Wasn't it you I asked a week ago for a list of Obama's socialistic policies?  How's that coming?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    Wasn't it you I asked a week ago for a list of Obama's socialistic policies?  How's that coming?
    Posted by movingtangent



    Just look at what he is doing. It is REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH and GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER or PART TAKEOVER of most of the economic engines in America. First, it was the banks and financial institutions, then the car industry, and now he wants to put his teeth into Nationalized Healthcare. Once government gets its foot in the door, it will want to take it over eventually. That is Socialistic.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:

    First, it was the banks and financial institutions, then the car industry, and now he wants to put his teeth into Nationalized Healthcare. Once government gets its foot in the door, it will want to take it over eventually. That is Socialistic.
    Posted by gabootwo2006


    I don't know what you are compaining about:
    - Banks and financial institutions:  First, this was during your hero's term, trying to cover for his buddy's scrw ups by deregulating banking.
    - Car industry: how high do you think unemployment would be if we just closed out auto sector?  Do you we could afford to have that at this time?  Get it through your head, we came within a sliver of re-enacting the great depression.  Amazing how some people can't even remember 6 months back.  Or maybe you were in coma then?
    - Healthcare: We have the costliest system in the world (2-3 x), growing at tripple inflation (cost doubled since 2000). It now takes 17% of our GDP. How long do you think we can afford to keep it before it bankrupt us.  How long before our businesses cease to be competitive? 

    Some prople prefer to burry their heads and hum to thenselves "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"...   Less possibility of headaches, right?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : Just look at what he is doing. It is REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH and GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER or PART TAKEOVER of most of the economic engines in America. First, it was the banks and financial institutions, then the car industry, and now he wants to put his teeth into Nationalized Healthcare. Once government gets its foot in the door, it will want to take it over eventually. That is Socialistic.
    Posted by gabootwo2006


    The foot (leg really) is already in that door.  Will you be turning down medicare?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreginMedford. Show GreginMedford's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    Banks and financial institutions:  First, this was during your hero's term, trying to cover for his buddy's scrw ups by deregulating banking.
    ----------------

    Ah, Clinton
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dexter67. Show dexter67's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    Wasn't it you I asked a week ago for a list of Obama's socialistic policies?  How's that coming?
    Posted by movingtangent


    Bwahahahahahaha....you're the LAST person who should be saying that. Wasn't it you who said WEEKS ago that you were going to put together a healthcare solution? How's that coming???
     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    All Politicians in general lie, they call it spin. The two politicians least to lie was Johnson and Reagan. I lived in ILL in 60's and it has not changed best liar always won. Just look at the Buress. and "Change". We all thought it would be smaller GOV.   My grand pappy said "them that can do,them that can't talk about it"
    Posted by howiewho


    Short memory on presidential lying: cherry tree, axe, Washington...

    And I think Johnson lied "just a bit", he was from Texas after all.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    Banks and financial institutions:  First, this was during your hero's term, trying to cover for his buddy's scrw ups by deregulating banking. ---------------- Ah, Clinton
    Posted by GreginMedford


    Wrong again.  Buddies = Gramm & Co.     Ever heard of him?    Check out his biggest accomplishments.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WingsOfGold. Show WingsOfGold's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    You left out another option, how about "Better than you".
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtangent. Show movingtangent's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : Bwahahahahahaha....you're the LAST person who should be saying that. Wasn't it you who said WEEKS ago that you were going to put together a healthcare solution? How's that coming???
    Posted by dexter67


    And you saw my response.  Do you have short term memory problems? 
    Stupid question.  You're the Dex.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dexter67. Show dexter67's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : And you saw my response.  Do you have short term memory problems?  Stupid question.  You're the Dex.
    Posted by movingtangent


    I saw that you posted nothing
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : I don't know what you are compaining about: - Banks and financial institutions:  First, this was during your hero's term, trying to cover for his buddy's scrw ups by deregulating banking. - Car industry: how high do you think unemployment would be if we just closed out auto sector?  Do you we could afford to have that at this time?  Get it through your head, we came within a sliver of re-enacting the great depression.  Amazing how some people can't even remember 6 months back.  Or maybe you were in coma then? - Healthcare: We have the costliest system in the world (2-3 x), growing at tripple inflation (cost doubled since 2000). It now takes 17% of our GDP. How long do you think we can afford to keep it before it bankrupt us.  How long before our businesses cease to be competitive?  Some prople prefer to burry their heads and hum to thenselves "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"... "Socialistic"...   Less possibility of headaches, right?
    Posted by Charles2008


    First off, Obama has created unsustainable debt for America in which even his administration has underestimated. Therefore, a correction was made over a 10 year period where they added 2,000,000,000,000 more to the debt. He had his Community and Reinvestment Act passed along with an Omnibus bill filled with entitlements during a time in which, as you say, we were a sliver away from re-enacting another GREAT DEPRESSION. Now why spend, spend, spend when even an idiot knows "you can't spend your way out of debt"? Even my son knows that and he is 7. Obama didn't follow along with what American households were doing all over the land when they were reducing their costs, spending only on things they could afford, and cutting back where ever they could save. Oh no, he pressed on with his agenda which is ladened with Socialistic programs. He bailed out the banks and financial institutions, he bailed out the car industry and now he wants the government to have its stake in healthcare and have cost over care discussions over whether you are economically feasable to treat and cure if you are sick. In short, government is gaining stake in  or flat out taking over some of the major economic engines in this country.  In addition, he is adding radicals in czar positions in his cabinet and suggests that we need a Civilian Security Force equal to are armed forces in both cost and size. Why does he need that? Who are they going to go after? We already have police and the National Guard for those positions. This situation just reeks of Socialism/Communism because the last time a Civilian Security Force was created it was the German's under Hitler creating the SS and proceeded to almost single-handedly kill off the Jews.

    All in all, his policies are leading this country into Socialism. Redistribution of wealth from those people/companies/corporations that create jobs, product and industry to those who do very little of those things to doing nothing to help the economy. Wow, that was a smart idea when the country was a "sliver" away from the next Great Depression (sarcasm). He said that unemployment wouldn't go over 8.5 percent, they are predicting double digit unemployment by the end of the year. Yyyyyyyyaaaaaaahhhhhoooooooooooooo!!!! Way to go Prez! (more sarcasm)

    Now to healthcare, I agree with you that healthcare needs changes. However, why was Obama trying to get this bill passed before everyone went on vacation for 5 weeks? Why was he trying to get a bill that would eat up 1/6th to 1/5th of the economy with little discussion and debate? I mean, something that big deserves proper discussion to make sure it is done right, right???? However, that isn't how Obama plays his cards. He wants to ram everything through. Plus, when the bill was brought to light and the American citizens did more homework on the bill then their Senators it was found that this bill has a lot of "questionable stuff" in it and that was made clear with the Town Meetings from the concerned citizens. Yet, they were put down, called names and were told they were "fear-mongering". How bright of the government to insult and label concerned citizens using their 1st admendment rights when they should have treated them with respect. Do we really want rationed care, cost over care discussions with some beaureucrat making a medical decisions rather then a doctor, long waits for care, inferior medicine to try to cure a patient, rationed hours for doctors, government having "real time" access to bank accounts, abortions to be covered under the bill and more debt, not less added to the taxpayer burdens? I know I don't......do you?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    Gabootwo,  Where do I start?
    1- You do know that the public dept was mostly accumulaed by republican adminstrations? right?  If not, study this chart:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png

    2- Of course you do not spend your way out of dept. You spend your way out of a depresssion. It happened in the 30's (a bit too late thanks to Hoover), and it is happening now (at a smaller scale).  What was our excuse the 8 years peior?

    3- You do realize that the need for the stimulus bill was BECAUSE (quoting you) "American households were doing all over the land when they were reducing their costs, spending only on things they could afford, and cutting back where ever they could save."  Consumer spending went down 1.5 TRILLION $  (the stimulus barely covered half of that) plus bank lending totally dried up which killed corporate spending.  Thatw as a life line to pump some $$ into the economy to get the wheels going again.

    4- 8.5 percent unemployent:  You know that the GOP fought tooth and nail against anything larger. The senate would not go for anything larger. If there is any argument to have is that the bill was too SMALL (note: 1.5 TRILLION shortfall in Consumer spending and NO business credit).  If you know anything about economy, you should not expect unemployment o recover until 2010 (we will see growth in Q4)

    5- healthcare bill:  What bill are you talking about? (you know there are at least 5, right?)  What "questionable stuff" are you objecting to?  I will put money that you have never attenpted to find out what's in any of the bill proposals.

    6- Paraphrasing you: Do we really want rationed care decided by your insurance executive, cost over care discussions with some insurance exec making a medical decisions rather then a doctor because it affect his company's profits, disallowed care because it is "non-covered" service, inferior medicine to try to cure a patient so we keep our life expectancy 3-4 years shorter than our neighbors, ... I could not keep up.  The rest is really loony:
    rationed hours for doctors (what? I thought with 50M more people we need more doctors?) , government having "real time" access to bank accounts (you can't possibly be that naive?  you heard of direct deposit? right?), abortions to be covered under the bill (That is a straight lie) and more debt (not if you pay for it), not less added to the taxpayer burdens (of course less. this is the point. You do know that we alreday pay 3 times what other countries pay per capita, right?)

    7- Socialism/Communism/SS/Hitler/SS/etc.  I suggest you start getting some of your "news" from some respectable sources (i.e other than Rush, Beck, and crew)

    Seriously people.. You ought to dig into some data and facts before you start spouting?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreginMedford. Show GreginMedford's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid? : Wrong again.  Buddies = Gramm & Co.     Ever heard of him?    Check out his biggest accomplishments.
    Posted by Charles2008


    Would you like a picture of Clinton signing Graham. Leach, Blithely with Robert Rubin behind him doing cartwheels?  90-8 and 362-57.  Yea, that was CLOSE!!!

    Larry Summers helped write it!!!  Gee, whats he doing now?

    "Like all those before me, I want to express my gratitude to those principally responsible for the success of this legislation. I thank Secretary Summers and the entire team at Treasury, but especially Undersecretary Gensler for their work, and Assistant Secretary Linda Robertson." (President Clinton, Remarks, Washington, D.C., 11/12/99)

    Secretary Summers: "And I Want To Thank Especially My Predecessor, Bob Rubin, Who Cared Deeply That We Get This Bill Right..." (Remarks, Washington, D.C., 11/12/99)

    Yea, Gramm and the republicans rammed it through.

    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?

    In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?:
    Gabootwo,  Where do I start? 1- You do know that the public dept was mostly accumulaed by republican adminstrations? right?  If not, study this chart:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png 2- Of course you do not spend your way out of dept. You spend your way out of a depresssion. It happened in the 30's (a bit too late thanks to Hoover), and it is happening now (at a smaller scale).  What was our excuse the 8 years peior? 3- You do realize that the need for the stimulus bill was BECAUSE (quoting you) " American households were doing all over the land when they were reducing their costs, spending only on things they could afford, and cutting back where ever they could save. "  Consumer spending went down 1.5 TRILLION $  (the stimulus barely covered half of that) plus bank lending totally dried up which killed corporate spending.  Thatw as a life line to pump some $$ into the economy to get the wheels going again. 4- 8.5 percent unemployent:  You know that the GOP fought tooth and nail against anything larger. The senate would not go for anything larger. If there is any argument to have is that the bill was too SMALL (note: 1.5 TRILLION shortfall in Consumer spending and NO business credit).  If you know anything about economy, you should not expect unemployment o recover until 2010 (we will see growth in Q4) 5- healthcare bill:  What bill are you talking about? (you know there are at least 5, right?)  What "questionable stuff" are you objecting to?  I will put money that you have never attenpted to find out what's in any of the bill proposals. 6- Paraphrasing you: Do we really want rationed care decided by your insurance executive, cost over care discussions with some insurance exec making a medical decisions rather then a doctor because it affect his company's profits, disallowed care because it is "non-covered" service, inferior medicine to try to cure a patient so we keep our life expectancy 3-4 years shorter than our neighbors, ... I could not keep up.  The rest is really loony: rationed hours for doctors (what? I thought with 50M more people we need more doctors?) , government having "real time" access to bank accounts (you can't possibly be that naive?  you heard of direct deposit? right?), abortions to be covered under the bill (That is a straight lie) and more debt (not if you pay for it), not less added to the taxpayer burdens (of course less. this is the point. You do know that we alreday pay 3 times what other countries pay per capita, right?) 7- Socialism/Communism/SS/Hitler/SS/etc.  I suggest you start getting some of your "news" from some respectable sources (i.e other than Rush, Beck, and crew) Seriously people.. You ought to dig into some data and facts before you start spouting?
    Posted by Charles2008



    Charles2008,

    1. Most of the debt rung up by Republican Administrations. Yeah maybe before this idiot in chief took over. Since he has taken over he has already amassed a debt higher then all the adminstrations before him combined.

    2. You can't spend your way out of debt because the spending proposed just adds to the debt and yet you approve of him spending us out of a depression. Hasn't happened yet Charles and a lot of his spending is only temporary with all these "fixing the roads contracts". Once that goes away, expect a secondary drop in the economy worse then the first drop......all under Obama's watch too. Then what will Obama do? Spend more money and put America further in debt? C'mon, one way to recover the economy is by way of tax cuts and allow people to get there hard earned money back to spend the way they want to. However, most of what needs to be done is to have government take a hard look at "what we can afford and what we can't afford" and make decisions on those things accordingly then reaccess and make decisions accordingly.

    3. The spending in the stimulus was too small!!!! Are you insane? Seriously? Again, simple math....you spend, you add to the problem.....you save and cut back and you reduce the problem.

    4. 8.5% unemployment. President Obama told the American Citizenry that when his Stimulus bill got passed that unemployment would not go over 8.5 percent. Currently, we are at 9.4% and they are expecting double digit unemployment due to the fact that his bill put a higher tax burden on  those people/companies/corporations that do the lionshare of the hiring, creating of product and industry in America. Add in the fact that Americans across the board are cutting back on their spending due to the bad economy and companies need to keep a profit margin, the cuts unfortunately have to come from somewhere. Therefore, labor.

    5. Healthcare bill: I'll give you a couple of things that worry me with that bill. First off, we are talking reduce costs to lower the cost of healthcare. That will translate into rationed care, cost over care discussions where some political hack will decide whether a treatment to get you well is either too expensive or is affordable. Secondly, the ability of the government to have "real time access" to my bank account. (page 59) I don't trust the government, certainly not Obama, so why trust them with access to my money. Thirdly, the fact that abortions will be covered under the bill (its in the bill). I don't want my money going towards that and neither do a whole bunch of other Americas also. Fourthly, rationed hours for doctors and how many patients they can see during a specified timeline. This will only led to longer waits for Americans to see a doctor. Lastly, the government option might be an option now, but what private company can compete with the government? It is a foot in the door for government so that they will eventually have total control over the industry and if they can't even run "Cash for Clunkers" right....who says they can run 1/5th of the economy right if and when they take over the Healthcare industry.
     
    Yes, it is true that we spend 3 times more per capita then any other country. However, we have people coming from all over the world to get medical care here. I don't see the masses of Americas flooding into Canada or Mexico to get medical care. For the most part, they all come here because they know, however flawed the system is, that we still have the best healthcare system in the world.

    7. Just keep an eye on what Obama wants to do with this Civilian Army thing. I am not sure what he'll use it for. However, the whole concept just raises more questions then anything.
     
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