Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?
posted at 8/31/2009 10:01 AM EDT
In Response to Re: Conservatives: Liars or just stupid?
Gabootwo, Where do I start? 1- You do know that the public dept was mostly accumulaed by republican adminstrations? right? If not, study this chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png
2- Of course you do not spend your way out of dept. You spend your way out of a depresssion. It happened in the 30's (a bit too late thanks to Hoover), and it is happening now (at a smaller scale). What was our excuse the 8 years peior? 3- You do realize that the need for the stimulus bill was BECAUSE (quoting you) " American households were doing all over the land when they were reducing their costs, spending only on things they could afford, and cutting back where ever they could save. " Consumer spending went down 1.5 TRILLION $ (the stimulus barely covered half of that) plus bank lending totally dried up which killed corporate spending. Thatw as a life line to pump some $$ into the economy to get the wheels going again. 4- 8.5 percent unemployent: You know that the GOP fought tooth and nail against anything larger. The senate would not go for anything larger. If there is any argument to have is that the bill was too SMALL (note: 1.5 TRILLION shortfall in Consumer spending and NO business credit). If you know anything about economy, you should not expect unemployment o recover until 2010 (we will see growth in Q4) 5- healthcare bill: What bill are you talking about? (you know there are at least 5, right?) What "questionable stuff" are you objecting to? I will put money that you have never attenpted to find out what's in any of the bill proposals. 6- Paraphrasing you: Do we really want rationed care decided by your insurance executive, cost over care discussions with some insurance exec making a medical decisions rather then a doctor because it affect his company's profits, disallowed care because it is "non-covered" service, inferior medicine to try to cure a patient so we keep our life expectancy 3-4 years shorter than our neighbors, ... I could not keep up. The rest is really loony: rationed hours for doctors (what? I thought with 50M more people we need more doctors?) , government having "real time" access to bank accounts (you can't possibly be that naive? you heard of direct deposit? right?), abortions to be covered under the bill (That is a straight lie) and more debt (not if you pay for it), not less added to the taxpayer burdens (of course less. this is the point. You do know that we alreday pay 3 times what other countries pay per capita, right?) 7- Socialism/Communism/SS/Hitler/SS/etc. I suggest you start getting some of your "news" from some respectable sources (i.e other than Rush, Beck, and crew) Seriously people.. You ought to dig into some data and facts before you start spouting?
Posted by Charles2008
1. Most of the debt rung up by Republican Administrations. Yeah maybe before this idiot in chief took over. Since he has taken over he has already amassed a debt higher then all the adminstrations before him combined.
2. You can't spend your way out of debt because the spending proposed just adds to the debt and yet you approve of him spending us out of a depression. Hasn't happened yet Charles and a lot of his spending is only temporary with all these "fixing the roads contracts". Once that goes away, expect a secondary drop in the economy worse then the first drop......all under Obama's watch too. Then what will Obama do? Spend more money and put America further in debt? C'mon, one way to recover the economy is by way of tax cuts and allow people to get there hard earned money back to spend the way they want to. However, most of what needs to be done is to have government take a hard look at "what we can afford and what we can't afford" and make decisions on those things accordingly then reaccess and make decisions accordingly.
3. The spending in the stimulus was too small!!!! Are you insane? Seriously? Again, simple math....you spend, you add to the problem.....you save and cut back and you reduce the problem.
4. 8.5% unemployment. President Obama told the American Citizenry that when his Stimulus bill got passed that unemployment would not go over 8.5 percent. Currently, we are at 9.4% and they are expecting double digit unemployment due to the fact that his bill put a higher tax burden on those people/companies/corporations that do the lionshare of the hiring, creating of product and industry in America. Add in the fact that Americans across the board are cutting back on their spending due to the bad economy and companies need to keep a profit margin, the cuts unfortunately have to come from somewhere. Therefore, labor.
5. Healthcare bill: I'll give you a couple of things that worry me with that bill. First off, we are talking reduce costs to lower the cost of healthcare. That will translate into rationed care, cost over care discussions where some political hack will decide whether a treatment to get you well is either too expensive or is affordable. Secondly, the ability of the government to have "real time access" to my bank account. (page 59) I don't trust the government, certainly not Obama, so why trust them with access to my money. Thirdly, the fact that abortions will be covered under the bill (its in the bill). I don't want my money going towards that and neither do a whole bunch of other Americas also. Fourthly, rationed hours for doctors and how many patients they can see during a specified timeline. This will only led to longer waits for Americans to see a doctor. Lastly, the government option might be an option now, but what private company can compete with the government? It is a foot in the door for government so that they will eventually have total control over the industry and if they can't even run "Cash for Clunkers" right....who says they can run 1/5th of the economy right if and when they take over the Healthcare industry.
Yes, it is true that we spend 3 times more per capita then any other country. However, we have people coming from all over the world to get medical care here. I don't see the masses of Americas flooding into Canada or Mexico to get medical care. For the most part, they all come here because they know, however flawed the system is, that we still have the best healthcare system in the world.
7. Just keep an eye on what Obama wants to do with this Civilian Army thing. I am not sure what he'll use it for. However, the whole concept just raises more questions then anything.