Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/secretary-of-defense-panetta-admits-information-from-waterboarding-led-us-to-bin-laden-video/?ModPagespeed=noscript

    Yes, waterboarding worked.
    Today on Meet the Press Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him.

    “The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”

    This was not the first time Panetta admitted that enhanced interrogation techniques led the US to Bin Laden. He made similar comments back in May 2011.

     

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    This argument isn't about efficacy so much as what we're comfortable with morally in this fight.    The same argument for waterboarding could be made for any form of torture - Is it OK to beat a man to death, or sever fingers or limbs, if it might help us catch a terrorist?  If so, why stop at terrorists?  If you suspect you can save a kidnap victim by waterboarding a suspect, isn't that the same thing?

    But going back to efficacy, Panetta said that information gained from waterboarding was a small piece of the puzzle.  The torture administration failed in seven years to do what the non-torture administration did in two.  Doesn't that tell us something about whose techniques work better?

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to slomag's comment:

     The torture administration failed in seven years to do what the non-torture administration did in two.  Doesn't that tell us something about whose techniques work better?

     



    Bullcrap. Waterboarding was used only on  a few occasions with the high profile prisoners like KSM.  Yet liberals seem to claim yelling at prisoners and denying them a daily nap was "torture", also. 

    Undeniable fact: the "nontorture" Administration used the intelligence gleaned from enhanced interrogation to capture Bin Laden. Will the Obama Administration now put itself under arrest for war crimes aginst humanity?

    Oh, speaking of which, while libs cried crocodile tears about mass murdering fanatic terrorists captured on the battlefield being denied a daily nap in prison,

    Obama has issued orders to kill without trial, terrorist suspects and their families, in countries which are not at war with the US...hundreds of innocent children killed...but the sensitive liberal mind seems to not care, since their Messiah Obama can do no wrong...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     The torture administration failed in seven years to do what the non-torture administration did in two.  Doesn't that tell us something about whose techniques work better?

     



    Bullcrap. Waterboarding was used only on  a few occasions with the high profile prisoners like KSM.  Yet liberals seem to claim yelling at prisoners and denying them a daily nap was "torture", also. 

     

    Undeniable fact: the "nontorture" Administration used the intelligence gleaned from enhanced interrogation to capture Bin Laden. Will the Obama Administration now put itself under arrest for war crimes aginst humanity?

    Oh, speaking of which, while libs cried crocodile tears about mass murdering fanatic terrorists captured on the battlefield being denied a daily nap in prison,

    Obama has issued orders to kill without trial, terrorist suspects and their families, in countries which are not at war with the US...hundreds of innocent children killed...but the sensitive liberal mind seems to not care, since their Messiah Obama can do no wrong...



    I am sure you will be O.K. with other countries using torture on our soldiers to gain important information.  Those would not be war crimes, just their duty...

    And quit with the "Messiah" cr@p.  No liberal of any real intelligence uses that term, it is used only by right wing ideologues who pretend to understand the liberal mind...  "Pretend" being the operative word.

    And Obama has done wrong: Guatanamo is still open and they still have not established consistent legal procedures to process the alleged terrorists there. And if it could be proven that the drone strikes were aimed at families of terrorists (as opposed to the terrorists themselves) then that would be problematic too.  But there is no such evidence unless you consider collateral damage as "targetting".  But you wouldn't do that... no way, since you willingly accept the intentional act of torture as "collateral damage" (at most negligent/reckless conduct).

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     The torture administration failed in seven years to do what the non-torture administration did in two.  Doesn't that tell us something about whose techniques work better?

     



    Bullcrap. Waterboarding was used only on  a few occasions with the high profile prisoners like KSM.  Yet liberals seem to claim yelling at prisoners and denying them a daily nap was "torture", also. 

     

    Undeniable fact: the "nontorture" Administration used the intelligence gleaned from enhanced interrogation to capture Bin Laden. Will the Obama Administration now put itself under arrest for war crimes aginst humanity?

    Oh, speaking of which, while libs cried crocodile tears about mass murdering fanatic terrorists captured on the battlefield being denied a daily nap in prison,

    Obama has issued orders to kill without trial, terrorist suspects and their families, in countries which are not at war with the US...hundreds of innocent children killed...but the sensitive liberal mind seems to not care, since their Messiah Obama can do no wrong...



    "using information" is a war crime?

    Blame Bush for the low bar for Obama - maybe liberals would be more outraged about targeted killings if they hadn't just endured 8 years of incompetence, lies, corruption, isolation, attacks on US soil, and illegal wars declared under false pretenses.

    It's not hypocrisy to give Obama a little lattitude after that horror.  It is, however, the height of hypocrisy, to whine for months about 4 Americans killed 7,000 miles from home, in the most dangerous region of the world.

    Face it - conservatives have a monopoly on hypocrisy these days - terror, the economy, debt, immigration - you name it.  Everything you complain about today was either caused or made many times worse when you had the reins.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    It was still illegal and still a violation of the geneva conventions.

    Some prisoners were tortured to death.

    Some prisoners who were guilty of no crime or offense agains the U.S. were tortured.

     

    I remain hopeful the truth will some day come out.  We deserve to know as much as we deserve to know anything about our govt's actions during wartime.

    Unfortunately, the Obama Admin has not strengthened that hope.  If anything, they've worsened it, and I'll never forgive them for it, until they make it right.

    Yes, if the perpetrators should be punished for illegal torture, then this admin should also be punished for covering up for them.

     

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    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    If it works, the government has a duty to waterboard to protect the lives of citizens and soldiers.



    Sorry you need more principles in the mix, otherwise this is yet another argument that leads to pointlessly absurd conclusions.

     

    A simple reductio ad absurdum will work, as per usual: What if torturing a suspect's children to death in front of the suspect worked. Is there suddenly a duty to do "it"?


    Ah. So clearly whether or not a given procedure works does not, in fact, determine whether the country has a "duty" to use it.

     

     

     

    Whether it works is not the question. The questions are whether the supposed leading light of the world should torture for information, and whether or not waterboarding is torture. Whether torture works has no place in the debate.

    Especially for people who are constantly caterwauling about how every last time Obama hiccups, it's proof that we've stepped on a slippery slope to fascism and serfdom.

     



    So you would rather have American citizens die than waterboard someone? Seems to me that is your choice. 

     

     

    What is more absurd, that you approve of Americans dying instead of waterboarding a terrorist suspect or me approving that the child of a terrorist be tortured in front of the terrorist if it worked?

     



    That's a false choice.  Before you torture someone you don't know they have information that will save lives. It is speculation.  How many were tortured with no good result?  Still worth it?  You watch too many movies.  Maybe you are prepared to sacrifice our corrective morality, but thinking people are not.  Aren't you becoming a terrorist when you terrorize a person in this fashion?  Is it "absurd" to think that as Americans we can stand for something better than the "end justifies the means"?  What ever happened to American Exceptionalism?  Leave torture to the imperialists and the terrorists.  We can do better.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    I wonder if some people would object to the way  colonials shoot and run terrorist tecniques during the American revolution.

    That tactic was not sponsored as an approved method of warfare.

    I also speculate whether these same people place higher value on the life of a suspected terrorist killer over an innocent American life.

    These same people concern me because if we leave the terror tecniques to the terrorists.. won't more innocent Americans die?

    I challenge those people... what new methods can we apply that will allow us to keep our heads up high (and connected). It's easy to say we are better but without specifics.. it's all worthless lip service.

    I don't think any court will hold these Neanderthal Jihadist Animals accountable for attrocities. None. It simply is all they know.

     

    Allah Akbar Baby.



    Only a third-grade idiot would try to use guerilla tactics from over 200 years ago to justify torture today.  There is no connection whatsoever.

    Your speculation is just that, made-up, and worth less than the pixels it was typed with.

    Instead, you hold up your own self-righteous, elitist superiority as proof of concept.  Ridiculous.  Another tool with his head up his a&&....

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    It was still illegal and still a violation of the geneva conventions.

    Some prisoners were tortured to death.

    Some prisoners who were guilty of no crime or offense agains the U.S. were tortured.

     




     

    Watching Al Jazzera again, were you? Or was it some other American-hating propaganda source?

    Please name who was killed by 'torture"..

    No one was tortured....the only arguable issue was waterboarding, which was only used on a few high level targets like KSM...they are very much still alive.

    The other supposed "torture" was loud music, sleep deprivation, slapping, humiliation....all of which is torture, per moonbats. Even being in jail itself is "torture"...

    The terrorists were not signatories to the "Geneva Convention", so that is just a vapid worthless talking point. Moreover, the terrorists do not come within the definition of "prisoners of war" , look it up. The Geneva Convention addresses armed uniformed soldiers, not saboteurs/terrorists.

    In the 2006 revision of Army Field Manual, which is what President Obama claimed was what we will use now, three new techniques were added: the good-cop, bad-cop routine; the "false flag" (allowing interrogators to claim that they are not Americans, if necessary), and, in carefully defined circumstances, separating detainees from one another. Human-rights advocates have argued that isolating captives is a form of cruelty.

    So according to the human rights crowd, Obama STILL TORTURES.



     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    Please name who was killed by 'torture"..



    There was the cab driver who was strung up by his hands and punched in the kneecap, until his kneecap factured, a piece of bone entered the bloodstream and stopped his heart.

     

    Oh and they found out he was completely innocent.

     

    I'm sure you can look that up.




    Yeah, Al Jazeera must be still reporting on this fiction...thanks, Al Gore...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

     You have no proof that a single life was saved as a result of waterboarding. To the contrary, the information gleaned was cumulative of other intelligence derived normally.

    Nevermind that "does it work" is not the question.At least not for human beings with human standards.

     

    You just ignore inconvenient facts, dont you? The Defense Secretary under Obama has stated that information gleaned from waterboarding helped lead to Osama's capture and killing. 

    The information from waterboarding was NOT "cumulative".

    The simplistic talking point that "torture doesnt work"  is false on many fronts....first of all, the CIA did not physically dismember or cause permanent harm to these terrorists. Physicians and lawyers were on hand, the CIA was limited in what it could do and how...

    Second, coercive interrogation was one necessary element, of many , to gather intelligence information which led to Osama's killing.

     

     

     

     

     

     




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    It was still illegal and still a violation of the geneva conventions.

    Some prisoners were tortured to death.

    Some prisoners who were guilty of no crime or offense agains the U.S. were tortured.

     

    I remain hopeful the truth will some day come out.  We deserve to know as much as we deserve to know anything about our govt's actions during wartime.

    Unfortunately, the Obama Admin has not strengthened that hope.  If anything, they've worsened it, and I'll never forgive them for it, until they make it right.

    Yes, if the perpetrators should be punished for illegal torture, then this admin should also be punished for covering up for them. 




    US citizens are tortured in federal, state and private prisons across the USA every day and no one cares but, let allegations of some one caught on the battle field fighting aginst US troops getting mistreated by US troops and the fake political theater begins!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    US citizens are tortured in federal, state and private prisons across the USA every day and no one cares but, let allegations of some one caught on the battle field fighting against US troops getting mistreated by US troops and the fake political theater begins!!

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    If torture worked, then why did it take so long to capture Bin Laden?

     
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