Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

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    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    WDYWN 's continuous personal vile insults ("worthless scum" "worthless liar"" truly worse people than the suspected terrorists they jeer about") 

    ...and his self appointed "Nanny" status are getting....

    stale and tiresome.

     




    And here is the comment where CLC admits he/she has lost the argument.

     
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    Re: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Again, That Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    If it works, the government has a duty to waterboard to protect the lives of citizens and soldiers.



    Sorry you need more principles in the mix, otherwise this is yet another argument that leads to pointlessly absurd conclusions.

     

    A simple reductio ad absurdum will work, as per usual: What if torturing a suspect's children to death in front of the suspect worked. Is there suddenly a duty to do "it"?


    Ah. So clearly whether or not a given procedure works does not, in fact, determine whether the country has a "duty" to use it.

     

     

     

    Whether it works is not the question. The questions are whether the supposed leading light of the world should torture for information, and whether or not waterboarding is torture. Whether torture works has no place in the debate.

    Especially for people who are constantly caterwauling about how every last time Obama hiccups, it's proof that we've stepped on a slippery slope to fascism and serfdom.

     



    So you would rather have American citizens die than waterboard someone? Seems to me that is your choice. 

     

     

    What is more absurd, that you approve of Americans dying instead of waterboarding a terrorist suspect or me approving that the child of a terrorist be tortured in front of the terrorist if it worked?

     

     



    That's a false choice.  Before you torture someone you don't know they have information that will save lives. It is speculation.  How many were tortured with no good result?  Still worth it?  You watch too many movies.  Maybe you are prepared to sacrifice our corrective morality, but thinking people are not.  Aren't you becoming a terrorist when you terrorize a person in this fashion?  Is it "absurd" to think that as Americans we can stand for something better than the "end justifies the means"?  What ever happened to American Exceptionalism?  Leave torture to the imperialists and the terrorists.  We can do better.

     

     



    Oh, I get it. An absurd argument - that I advocate "torturing" the child of some terrorist suspect is ignored, but when I shoot one back at him then it is fair game for you to take seriously.

     

    If you had read what I had posted earlier, I said the LEAST HARSH that was effective. I hardly think that includes really torturing someone else.

    If it were your loved one that could be saved from torturing a suspected terrorist, I am betting you'd at least want some people waterboarded. But for someone else's loved one you are free to be high and mighty and hypocritical.

    In the course of human history, people or nations with your attitude eventually end up as the conquered. You surrender beforehand without applying any common sense. You toss around the word "torture" without defining what it actually is.

    Turn off your "Imagine" CD and get real.



    The hypocrisy is all yours. You think America's exceptionalism entitles it to dreadful things like torture people because they might have useful information.  Put down Machiavelli's "The Prince" and realize we can be moral leaders of the world and not just another imperialist.  That is how we can truly conquer our foes, by being better that they are, not just the same.  You can defend your country without losing your soul in the process.

     
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