Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     


    Or because they don't qualify...like in this case

     

     

    Because of money.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh...I thought it was because...a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Does this sound like a death panel?

     

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius rebuffed an appeal from Rep. Lou Barletta on behalf of a girl who needs a lung transplant but can’t get one because of a federal regulation that prevents her from qualifying for a transplant.

    “Please, suspend the rules until we look at this policy,” Barletta, a Pennsylvania Republican, asked Sebelius during a House hearing Tuesday on behalf of Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations, but Sebelius has the authority to waive that rule on her behalf. The pediatric lungs for which she currently qualifies aren’t available.

    “I would suggest, sir, that, again, this is an incredibly agonizing situation where someone lives and someone dies,” Sebelius replied.

     

    So, the person running Obamacare, says "someone lives, someone dies".

    Simply amazing.

     



    You realize there aren't enough spare lungs to go around right?

     


    I admit I don't know all the facts about this story, but aren't the policies in place in order to prevent someone from having to decide who lives and who dies?  The policy creates an order in which a person would recieve a transplant. If exceptions are made then the policy becomes meaningless and then you will have a system where money and influence moves you to the top of the list. There are no winners here.

    [/QUOTE]

    WHY is the policy one of politics?

    This is wrong, and this is at the heart of Obamacare, government making these decisions, not doctors.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     


    Or because they don't qualify...like in this case

     

     

     

     

    Because of money.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh...I thought it was because...a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right.  Because of money.

    There aren't enough organs/doctors/facilities to go around, because there isn't enough funding for that or for the organ donor programs, and so there needs to be restrictions on who can get the transplants, when and how.

    Never mind the insurance company policies (driven mostly by the carrier's bottom line)...

     

    19 people per day die while waiting for a life-saving transplant.  Agreed it suxxx.

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    Does this sound like a death panel?

     

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius rebuffed an appeal from Rep. Lou Barletta on behalf of a girl who needs a lung transplant but can’t get one because of a federal regulation that prevents her from qualifying for a transplant.

    “Please, suspend the rules until we look at this policy,” Barletta, a Pennsylvania Republican, asked Sebelius during a House hearing Tuesday on behalf of Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations, but Sebelius has the authority to waive that rule on her behalf. The pediatric lungs for which she currently qualifies aren’t available.

    “I would suggest, sir, that, again, this is an incredibly agonizing situation where someone lives and someone dies,” Sebelius replied.

     

    So, the person running Obamacare, says "someone lives, someone dies".

    Simply amazing.

     

     



    You realize there aren't enough spare lungs to go around right?

     

     


    I admit I don't know all the facts about this story, but aren't the policies in place in order to prevent someone from having to decide who lives and who dies?  The policy creates an order in which a person would recieve a transplant. If exceptions are made then the policy becomes meaningless and then you will have a system where money and influence moves you to the top of the list. There are no winners here.



    WHY is the policy one of politics?

     

    This is wrong, and this is at the heart of Obamacare, government making these decisions, not doctors.



    Did you miss the part of the story where the federal government is staying out of this?  The GOP contingent from PA is trying to get the HHS Secretary to intervene.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     


    Or because they don't qualify...like in this case

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Because of money.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh...I thought it was because...a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right.  Because of money.

     

    There aren't enough organs/doctors/facilities to go around, because there isn't enough funding for that or for the organ donor programs, and so there needs to be restrictions on who can get the transplants, when and how.

    Never mind the insurance company policies (driven mostly by the carrier's bottom line)...

     

    19 people per day die while waiting for a life-saving transplant.  Agreed it suxxx.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh and here I thought it was because not enough people are donors. Hmmm

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

     


    Or because they don't qualify...like in this case

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Because of money.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh...I thought it was because...a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right.  Because of money.

     

     

    There aren't enough organs/doctors/facilities to go around, because there isn't enough funding for that or for the organ donor programs, and so there needs to be restrictions on who can get the transplants, when and how.

    Never mind the insurance company policies (driven mostly by the carrier's bottom line)...

     

    19 people per day die while waiting for a life-saving transplant.  Agreed it suxxx.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh and here I thought it was because not enough people are donors. Hmmm

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's what I said.

    And there are not enough doctors/facilities.

    Because of money.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    this is at the heart of Obamacare, government making these decisions, not doctors.



    No, it really isn't.

    And currently for most people, the insurance companies make the decisions, not doctors.

    Short of single-payer, that will not change with the ACA.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    This problem has existed for as long as people have required transplants.  Sometimes there just isn't enough material to satisfy demand and for that reason rules have to be established to determine who can receive transplants and the waiting list is probably the most fair way of doing it.  But asking HHS to intervene and potentially put someone else in jeopardy who is also waiting isn't fair.  Its a horrible situation, one where no matter what happens someone isn't going to be able to receive the organ they need to live, but that isn't the government deciding who lives and who dies, it is the system that is set up to fairly allow people access according to criteria long established. 

     

     

    I think everyone understands the scarcity, but that is not the issue.

    It is the system that puts a politician in charge of a decision.  this is a death panel.  That's the issue.  A politician is standing there, ready to go thumbs up, thumbs down.  that's what I object to.

    Look, politicians cannot be trusted with this stuff.  Are you telling me that Joe Kennedy calls looking for a transplant for a 10 year old child, Sebelius would say tough cookies?  I don't think so.

    Tough cookies is for the rest of us.

    [/QUOTE]


    What politician is in charge of the decision?  A political appointee is being asked to override the third party system to benefit one person, while likely dooming another.  This isn't about some faceless government official deciding who lives and who dies, the poor child is subject to the same hurdles others face when needing a transplant and one isn't readily available, they go in the line behind others who are also waiting and were there first.  This isn't a death panel, and that characterization is blatanly a lie.  This situation is why people are asked to be organ donors. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

     

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    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Or because they don't qualify...like in this case

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Because of money.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh...I thought it was because...a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right.  Because of money.

     

     

     

    There aren't enough organs/doctors/facilities to go around, because there isn't enough funding for that or for the organ donor programs, and so there needs to be restrictions on who can get the transplants, when and how.

    Never mind the insurance company policies (driven mostly by the carrier's bottom line)...

     

    19 people per day die while waiting for a life-saving transplant.  Agreed it suxxx.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh and here I thought it was because not enough people are donors. Hmmm

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's what I said.

     

    And there are not enough doctors/facilities.

    Because of money.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So there are lungs just sitting around not being used because of lack of doctors/facilities?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    And currently for most people, the insurance companies make the decisions, not doctors.

    Short of single-payer, that will not change with the ACA.

     


    I or anyone else can sue the insurance companies to rubble if, they make a mistake.

    The govt makes a mistake and the answer will be "hey, some live and some die" suck it up buttercup!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    I don't know Skeeter. You are the one proposing that government do just that. I prefer to leave these kinds of decisions to OPTN. After all..they are the experts..and there are no politics involved.

    Your post seems to imply that you now want to inject politics into this already incredible painful situations.

    Right now, there's 1700 people in the US ( including adults and children) waiting for lung transplants. There are 31 children on this list who are sicker than this little girl. Are you saying you want the government to make an exception for this girl..but not the 31 children who are also dying? What about the rest of the 1700 people on the list. Are you saying you want politicians to play God in this situation?

    This little girl's parents are clearly and understandably in a lot of pain. Grief and emotions are running high. Of course they want their little girl saved at all costs. Each of us would want the same for our own child.  There are no guarantees in life. Each decision that gets made in organ donation comes at a cost of someone else's life.

    I would like to save everyone..but that's just not the reality. Injecting politics into this painful situation is disgusting.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

     

    And currently for most people, the insurance companies make the decisions, not doctors.

    Short of single-payer, that will not change with the ACA.

     

     

     

     

    I or anyone else can sue the insurance companies to rubble if, they make a mistake.

    The govt makes a mistake and the answer will be "hey, some live and some die" suck it up buttercup!

     




    Actually...you can sue insurance companies all you want...but if you accepted the terms of coverage up front..there's not much you can do.

     

    The government isn't even involved in this process..yet you are another one who seems to want to involve them.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     Injecting politics into this painful situation is disgusting.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron



    Injecting the govt directly into healthcare is a disgusting proposition.

    When the govt screws us (and in healthcare it could be kills our loved one) our only hope is that they are held accountible by politicians...see IRS scandal.

    Its a lose lose situation.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     Injecting politics into this painful situation is disgusting.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     



    Injecting the govt directly into healthcare is a disgusting proposition.

     

    When the govt screws us (and in healthcare it could be kills our loved one) our only hope is that they are held accountible by politicians...see IRS scandal.

    Its a lose lose situation.

    [/QUOTE]


    ..but that is not what is happening here.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    This problem has existed for as long as people have required transplants.  Sometimes there just isn't enough material to satisfy demand and for that reason rules have to be established to determine who can receive transplants and the waiting list is probably the most fair way of doing it.  But asking HHS to intervene and potentially put someone else in jeopardy who is also waiting isn't fair.  Its a horrible situation, one where no matter what happens someone isn't going to be able to receive the organ they need to live, but that isn't the government deciding who lives and who dies, it is the system that is set up to fairly allow people access according to criteria long established. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I think everyone understands the scarcity, but that is not the issue.

    It is the system that puts a politician in charge of a decision.  this is a death panel.  That's the issue.  A politician is standing there, ready to go thumbs up, thumbs down.  that's what I object to.

    Look, politicians cannot be trusted with this stuff.  Are you telling me that Joe Kennedy calls looking for a transplant for a 10 year old child, Sebelius would say tough cookies?  I don't think so.

    Tough cookies is for the rest of us.

     

     




     

     

    Wilfull ignorance is not an argument.

    The U.S. Congress established the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) when it enacted the National Organ Transplant Act (NOTA) of 1984. The act called for a unified transplant network to be operated by a private, non-profit organization under federal contract.


    http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/optn/history.asp

     

    That means it is private organization that wrote these rules so that gov't politics wouldn't be involved.

    Now you want gov't to get involved. Interesting.

     



    Try to deflect.  That is not the issue.  This falls under Obamacare, and the queen of health, Sebelius.

     

    You understand it is Sebellius who is refusing the waiver? I would say that is absolute proof that this is a political issue.

    this is why government needs to get out of health care.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     Injecting politics into this painful situation is disgusting.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     

     



    Injecting the govt directly into healthcare is a disgusting proposition.

     

     

    When the govt screws us (and in healthcare it could be kills our loved one) our only hope is that they are held accountible by politicians...see IRS scandal.

    Its a lose lose situation.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ..but that is not what is happening here.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It absolutely is what is happening here.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    This problem has existed for as long as people have required transplants.  Sometimes there just isn't enough material to satisfy demand and for that reason rules have to be established to determine who can receive transplants and the waiting list is probably the most fair way of doing it.  But asking HHS to intervene and potentially put someone else in jeopardy who is also waiting isn't fair.  Its a horrible situation, one where no matter what happens someone isn't going to be able to receive the organ they need to live, but that isn't the government deciding who lives and who dies, it is the system that is set up to fairly allow people access according to criteria long established. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I think everyone understands the scarcity, but that is not the issue.

    It is the system that puts a politician in charge of a decision.  this is a death panel.  That's the issue.  A politician is standing there, ready to go thumbs up, thumbs down.  that's what I object to.

    Look, politicians cannot be trusted with this stuff.  Are you telling me that Joe Kennedy calls looking for a transplant for a 10 year old child, Sebelius would say tough cookies?  I don't think so.

    Tough cookies is for the rest of us.

     

     



     

     

    Wilfull ignorance is not an argument.

    The U.S. Congress established the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) when it enacted the National Organ Transplant Act (NOTA) of 1984. The act called for a unified transplant network to be operated by a private, non-profit organization under federal contract.


    http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/optn/history.asp

     

    That means it is private organization that wrote these rules so that gov't politics wouldn't be involved.

    Now you want gov't to get involved. Interesting.

     



    Try to deflect.  That is not the issue.  This falls under Obamacare, and the queen of health, Sebelius.

     

    You understand it is Sebellius who is refusing the waiver? I would say that is absolute proof that this is a political issue.

    this is why government needs to get out of health care.




    So let me get this straight...Sebelius refusing to let government/politics be interjected in this situation is proof that government is involved..??  Explain to me how that logic works...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    No tragedy is too low for some to rape.


    This isn't some situation where there are piles of lungs around, and some evil D wants a child to die, despite what skeeter would seem to want you to believe.

     

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336054/Sarah-Murnaghan-Were-going-let-kid-die-red-tape-Distraught-mom-speaks-health-secretary-refuses-overrule-regulation-help-save-10-year-old-girl-weeks-live.html

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/sarah-murnaghan-lung-transplant-kathleen-sebelius-92198.html

     

    The situation is the mother is saying, "kill someone else to save my girl." That's what's being asked. The situation may even be: kill soemone else, and this girl dies too when the transplant goes wrong.

    There are few lungs out there. Survivability in pediatric lung transplant is little known because so few have been done.

     

    Read through the articles without your f'ing political blinders on and you'll see there's no right answer. Christ you people.!



    No right answer. I am afraid you are right. 

    All I can say is that if it were a Republican adminstration doing this the howls from many that are defending Sebelius would be deafening.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    All I can say is that if it were a Republican adminstration doing this the howls from many that are defending Sebelius would be deafening.

     




     

    Ahhhh,  the typical wingnut playing the victim card.

    How about this; When it happens you can comment. Until then shut up.

    [/QUOTE]

    Interesting. Does this go for the Left too? Should the Left also shut up about things until they happen? Fair is fair right? 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?


    All I know is that a young girl is dying and skeeter is a "knuckle head" !

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    A judge has granted a temporary order allowing the young girl to be placed on the adult transplant list pending a hearing to take place on June 14th. A small ray of hope and I will offer that the court system is a more appropriate place to resolve this issue than the political arena.

    Still..with the scarcity of lungs available for transplant and the number of people waiting it's no guarantee anyhow. It would be nice if we could fix everyone..but like I stated earlier...each organ tranplant situation such at this one comes at a cost of someone else's life. No easy choices.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:


    All I know is that a young girl is dying and skeeter is a "knuckle head" !



    You might add to that broad base of knowledge that the head of Obamacare stood in the way of this girl getting life-saving care.

     

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