Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    "GOVERNMENT IS NOW MAKING THE DECISION that previously was in the hands of doctors via the organ database."


    IF she interevened, then government would have made the decision.



    A judge forced her to intervene.  Last time I checked, judges were part of government.

    The judge told her that she was mistaken, and must add the girl to the list.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    This is a classic illustration of the Sword of Damocles.

    Who wants to sit that chair and make this decision?



    Exactly.

     

    So, tell me.  Why are we putting health care so tightly under the control of government?  Government is chosing to sit in that chair, and then punt the hard decisions to the court.

    Better to have left it to the private sector.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    This is an example of where Obamacare is leading, as this once private list is now in the hands of government.  What's next? 

     




     

    Hey maroon, the only reason that statement could be remotely true is because you whackjob wingnuts are the ones forcing it into the "hands of gov't"

    Seriously, you really have no concept of a logical progression of thought.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yah, how could I forget?  All the people against Obamacare were secretely wishing that government woudl take it over.

    Talk about missing the point.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    Actually, it's "Meneer Escher" - given that he was Dutch - but whatevs....

     

     

     

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    "GOVERNMENT IS NOW MAKING THE DECISION that previously was in the hands of doctors via the organ database."


    IF she interevened, then government would have made the decision.

     



    A judge forced her to intervene.  Last time I checked, judges were part of government.

     

    The judge told her that she was mistaken, and must add the girl to the list.

    [/QUOTE]

    Because the family asked the judge to force her to intervene.  They wanted the govt to help.

    Either the govt is part of the solution or part of the problem...make up your mind....

     

     

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jedwardnicky. Show jedwardnicky's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The Escherian stairwell in action on the RIT campus, maybe.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvu0sjhfTX8

     




    Godel, Escher, Bach - An Eternal Golden Braid - Douglas Hoffstader.  Astounding.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I loved that book! While the mathematics, for me, were difficult to understand, the musical and visual aspects helped me understand math and so many other things. I just pulled it off my bookshelf right now. It's been sitting there for years! Thanks for the mention! Definately going to start rereading it tomorrow.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]Government is chosing to sit in that chair, and then punt the hard decisions to the court. A judge forced her to intervene.  Last time I checked, judges were part of government.

    Did you just talk yourself in a circle?

    [/QUOTE]

    Try as I might, there is no getting through to you.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    This is an example of where Obamacare is leading, as this once private list is now in the hands of government.  What's next? 

     

     




     

     

    Hey maroon, the only reason that statement could be remotely true is because you whackjob wingnuts are the ones forcing it into the "hands of gov't"

    Seriously, you really have no concept of a logical progression of thought.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure he does! You just have no idea what his "logical" progression of thought is. Perhaps a visual aid might help....

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Nice!

     

    A picture of the happy, mindless, faceless, proletariat marching endlessless in their support of Obamacare!

     

    I couldn't have picked a better picture to demonstrate how the progressives think about Obamacare if I tried.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    This is an example of where Obamacare is leading, as this once private list is now in the hands of government.  What's next? 

     

     

     



     

     

     

    Hey maroon, the only reason that statement could be remotely true is because you whackjob wingnuts are the ones forcing it into the "hands of gov't"

    Seriously, you really have no concept of a logical progression of thought.

     

     



    Yah, how could I forget?  All the people against Obamacare were secretely wishing that government woudl take it over.

     

     

    Talk about missing the point.

     




     

    No use debating someone who's "proof" is a law enacted in 1984 as somehow being tied to ACA.

    Have fun in your alternate reality. At least in there, you never run up against facts or logic, smooth sailing to your foregone conclusion. Enjoy.



    Do you deny that government made the decision to add (or not add) this girl to this government controlled list?

    Just once, I would like a straight answer instead of your deceptions.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?


    So, here is what we have learned in this thread:

     

    *Governmet is making decisions about who gets/who doesn't get healthcare.

    *progressives are denying this.

    *Progressives refuse to answer questions directly.

    *Progressives throw up every useless argument possible.

    *When all else fails, they call their opposition delusional.

    Progressives lose again!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    This is an example of where Obamacare is leading, as this once private list is now in the hands of government.  What's next? 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hey maroon, the only reason that statement could be remotely true is because you whackjob wingnuts are the ones forcing it into the "hands of gov't"

    Seriously, you really have no concept of a logical progression of thought.

     

     



    Yah, how could I forget?  All the people against Obamacare were secretely wishing that government woudl take it over.

     

     

    Talk about missing the point.

     




     

    No use debating someone who's "proof" is a law enacted in 1984 as somehow being tied to ACA.

    Have fun in your alternate reality. At least in there, you never run up against facts or logic, smooth sailing to your foregone conclusion. Enjoy.

     

     



    Do you deny that government made the decision to add (or not add) this girl to this government controlled list?

     

     

    Just once, I would like a straight answer instead of your deceptions.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey ya freakin freak, none of your conspiracy crap would've happened if the wingnuts had just stayed out of the process.

     

    Here is what we know, despite your freakish attempts to make it otherwise:

     There is a non-governmental, non-partisan, private entity-run process that has been in place since 1984 for determining transplant recipients.

    In the last week or so a young girl has tugged on the heartstrings of the whackjob wingnuts so that you political idealogues have seen fit to interject politics into a process  that has been UP TO THIS POINT, a non-political way of determining the donor list.

     

    You dipshiite idealogues have now, in your unbelievable ignorance, made that process political.

    You morons, through your partisan politicking, have determined that this one girl is more important than the next little girl, or even the young adult that would have, statistically speaking, an 80% better cahnce of survival versus a young child for which any adult lung transplant would've failed at an 50% rate.

    So congratulations a%%%wipe, you have just condemned another person to death on a 50% hunch that may or may not work.

    And the best part?

    You did it all through government intervention, that same intervention that you morons supposedly want to eliminate.

    A5555555H00000LES!!!

     

    How's it feel to selectively play god?

    Are you proud of yourselves that you used politics to inetervene in an otherwise apolitical process?

    I'll bet donuts to your paycheck that you will come up with some stupid, non-sensical excuse and sleep happy that at least the person you bet on got to game the system...thanks to politics.

    [/QUOTE]

    " There is a non-governmental, non-partisan, private entity-run process that has been in place since 1984 for determining transplant recipients."

    So, answer the qeustion:  Why did a judge have to order Sebelius to add the name tothe list?  You claim government is not involved.  Explain this contradiction.

     

    Nice rant, BTW.  kinda proves my point about progressives being unhinged.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:


    So, here is what we have learned in this thread:

     

    *Governmet is making decisions about who gets/who doesn't get healthcare.

    *progressives are denying this.

    *Progressives refuse to answer questions directly.

    *Progressives throw up every useless argument possible.

    *When all else fails, they call their opposition delusional.

    Progressives lose again!



    Ok......

    You've never won an argument here.  Ever.  Why should now be any different?

    What color is the sky in your world, anyway...?  Black like your heart, or yellow like your jaundice...??

     

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    So, here is what we have learned in this thread:

     

    *Governmet is making decisions about who gets/who doesn't get healthcare.

    *progressives are denying this.

    *Progressives refuse to answer questions directly.

    *Progressives throw up every useless argument possible.

    *When all else fails, they call their opposition delusional.

    Progressives lose again!

     



    Ok......

     

    You've never won an argument here.  Ever.  Why should now be any different?

    What color is the sky in your world, anyway...?  Black like your heart, or yellow like your jaundice...??

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So, if I haven't won the argument, how come those claiming government has nothing to do with this can't explain why a judge ordered Sebelius to add the girl to the list, and she did?  Sure sounds like government is in control to me.

    i won, you lost.  Unless you want to try to answer that basic question Such that I am wrong.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    Sarah Murganhan is currently undergoing transplant surgery..having received an adult lung. I will be saying prayers for her that she pulls through..and prayers for those who lost a loved one..that this little girl may have a second chance.

     

     

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     


    So, here is what we have learned in this thread:

     

    *Governmet is making decisions about who gets/who doesn't get healthcare.

    *progressives are denying this.

    *Progressives refuse to answer questions directly.

    *Progressives throw up every useless argument possible.

    *When all else fails, they call their opposition delusional.

    Progressives lose again!

     

     



    Ok......

     

     

    You've never won an argument here.  Ever.  Why should now be any different?

    What color is the sky in your world, anyway...?  Black like your heart, or yellow like your jaundice...??

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So, if I haven't won the argument, how come those claiming government has nothing to do with this can't explain why a judge ordered Sebelius to add the girl to the list, and she did?  Sure sounds like government is in control to me.

     

    i won, you lost.  Unless you want to try to answer that basic question Such that I am wrong.

    [/QUOTE]


    Skeeter..do you really need to have this explained to you? Sebilius complying with a court order is not the same thing as a government death panel..or proof of government over reach. As the Secretary of Health and Human Services...Sebilius' office is the oversight agency for all public and private health institutions. The organ transplant system is a private system..not government run in any way...except in the sense that the HHS has oversight of all.  Sebilius did not feel that the government should get involved in this issue..so the parents rightly went to the court system. That is a far cry from your assertion of a death penalty. If you can't see that then you are being intentionally blind.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Do We Really Want Government Making These Decisions?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     


    So, here is what we have learned in this thread:

     

    *Governmet is making decisions about who gets/who doesn't get healthcare.

    *progressives are denying this.

    *Progressives refuse to answer questions directly.

    *Progressives throw up every useless argument possible.

    *When all else fails, they call their opposition delusional.

    Progressives lose again!

     

     

     



    Ok......

     

     

     

    You've never won an argument here.  Ever.  Why should now be any different?

    What color is the sky in your world, anyway...?  Black like your heart, or yellow like your jaundice...??

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So, if I haven't won the argument, how come those claiming government has nothing to do with this can't explain why a judge ordered Sebelius to add the girl to the list, and she did?  Sure sounds like government is in control to me.

     

     

    i won, you lost.  Unless you want to try to answer that basic question Such that I am wrong.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Skeeter..do you really need to have this explained to you? Sebilius complying with a court order is not the same thing as a government death panel..or proof of government over reach. As the Secretary of Health and Human Services...Sebilius' office is the oversight agency for all public and private health institutions. The organ transplant system is a private system..not government run in any way...except in the sense that the HHS has oversight of all.  Sebilius did not feel that the government should get involved in this issue..so the parents rightly went to the court system. That is a far cry from your assertion of a death penalty. If you can't see that then you are being intentionally blind.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You must be joking. Is Sebelius part of the government or not?

    Prior to Obamacare, the list was private, as WDYWN pointed out.  The rules for being in the list were decided by OPA's, ie.e doctors who procured organs.  Not exactly the free market, but better than what we have now, because now, the decision of who is on the list or not is a GOVERNMENT decision.  

    A representative, also a member of government petitioned Sebelius. Sebelius punted.  The judged said she couldn't.  I would say, if you are intellectually honest, you woudl have to say government control is all over this.

    This is all happening because the government, not the free market, is in control of this process.  Read Walter Williams on this.  he wrote an article in the WSJ, either yesterday or the day before.

     

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