Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    All the gays had to do was keep their mouths shut and they'd be able to continue serving, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. But of course you liberals can't accept something that simple. My question is what does the gay community have to gain by being allowed to openly admit to their sexual preference? What part of unit cohesion do they wish to deteriorate? (Unless you've actually served and know what being part of a military unit is like, assume this question as rhetorical). How strong or weak does ones patriotism have to be that when asked to keep their sexual orientation to themselves, that they would rather make others uncomfortable and become the victims of taking the discharge option? Not too patriotic if you ask me.
    I'm OK with the mandatory removal part of the policy changing. A lot of non-gay troops used it to get an early release. Nice to see that part gone.
    Over all, it's always the outsiders/liberals who have to tell others what to do and what to think and what to feel.
    Every time BarryO pulls out his pen, he weakens the nation.



    You're kidding right? When I was in we all knew who was gay and who wasn't. So being able to freely admit it is really not that big of a deal.
    And why should one group of people have to keep quiet about who they are? I don't know what nationality you are but are you telling me if there was a rule that anyone of your nationality couldn't openly admit it you'd have been ok with that? I highly doubt it.
    No one should have to hide who they are. Isn't that why wars have been fought by this country....to preserve our FREEDOMS?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : I realize there are no moral values in your worldview, but noteveryone shares that.  In my worldview, homosexuality is as wrong as cancer.  So, I am not getting why I should be so happy.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    You're dead wrong, again.  It just happens that my "moral values" are not the same as yours.

    In my view, there's nothing moral or immoral about homosexuality (or cancer, for that matter), only in our treatment of those who happen to be different than us.

    I cannot say the same about lying, which is what gay recruits were systematically forced to do.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from KittyDuke. Show KittyDuke's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    I cannot say the same about lying, which is what gay recruits were systematically forced to do.



    Forced? Nope..
    they has a decision to make on whether they wanted to make a career change.. just like the 'decision' they elected concerning their lifestyle.

    Don't make this a struggle story nor spin the genetic excuse.

    Does this make Obama the Abe Lincoln of homosexuality... hardly !
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]I cannot say the same about lying, which is what gay recruits were systematically forced to do. Forced? Nope.. they has a decision to make on whether they wanted to make a career change.. just like the 'decision' they elected concerning their lifestyle. Don't make this a struggle story nor spin the genetic excuse. Does this make Obama the Abe Lincoln of homosexuality... hardly !
    Posted by KittyDuke[/QUOTE]

    Yes, they were forced to lie.  Adm. Mullen said as much, and he was correct.

    Nobody should be denied a job they're qualified for based upon their sexual orientation, much less a govt job, and much, much less a military job - which I believe most Americans would regard as national service and a civic duty, not necessarily a "career".

    Sorry, but homosexuality is not a "decision".  Employment discrimination doesn't change that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : EVERY and ALL federal employees, not just military.  Ask Dean Hara, who lives in Frank-Land
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunate, but I believe part of that is the grounds for the state's lawsuit...

    ...and perhaps part of why it will eventually be overturned.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KittyDuke. Show KittyDuke's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    I hope this covers trans sexuals and other creative lifestyles.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : A lot of gross assumptions here that don't really hold up on their own, so instead a simple question: Why should some soldiers be forced to lie about their sexual orientation while others are not...?? It would seem that the very best way of maintaining unit cohesion is honesty and trust among its members. As for "making others uncomfortable", that's their problem - their own insecurity - not the problem of someone trying to live their life openly and honestly. 
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Soldiers weren't being asked, so theres was nothing to lie about in the first place. The policy required admittance or witness to homosexuality. If a soldier is comfortable enough to admit their sexual orientation, AND the rest of his/her unit is comfortable with the gay soldier, then everybody is happy. Thats great. Unfortunately, the entire military and the surrounding world isn't that  understanding. It isn't the government's job nor the rest of society to  DICTATE that someone MUST find a way to be comfortable in a certain situation.
    There's a reason why men and women don't share the same bathrooms and showers. Why must a majority (yes, a HUGE majority) of the military be forced into a situation they would rather not be in?
    I already stated that the "mandatory removal" of gay troops was always the wrong solution. I do feel that a certain non-judicial punishment (Article15) should have been the option due to a soldiers INSISTENCE on RISKING a unit's cohesion and readiness.
    The best solution, I feel,should have been to leave the application or non-application of punishment at the unit level under the commanders and leadership discretion as to whether the unit's cohesion and readiness was/will be affected.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : I realize there are no moral values in your worldview, but noteveryone shares that.  In my worldview, homosexuality is as wrong as cancer.  So, I am not getting why I should be so happy.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    Being gay is like having cancer?  What a despicable and immoral thing to say. I am a cancer survivor and I have a gay sister. Cancer could have killed me and my sister is raising a very nice family and holding down a good job.  They are NOTHING alike.  Take your medieval views and move to Iran already.  You would fit right in.  The country should not be run based on your twisted definition of "happiness". and "morality".  Where is that compassion idea that you supposedly uphold?  Situational only apparently.  Disgusting.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from KittyDuke. Show KittyDuke's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    An analogy is not an inditement

    You explained alot. That doesn't alter clinging to moral values taught to the majority of Americans.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    You're kidding right? When I was in we all knew who was gay and who wasn't. So being able to freely admit it is really not that big of a deal. And why should one group of people have to keep quiet about who they are? I don't know what nationality you are but are you telling me if there was a rule that anyone of your nationality couldn't openly admit it you'd have been ok with that? I highly doubt it. No one should have to hide who they are. Isn't that why wars have been fought by this country....to preserve our FREEDOMS?
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]

    Because when your dealing with a human trait that's related to a certain "activity or behavior" then you're tampering with comfort levels and the rights of others to a certain yet differing comfort level. At the most basic levels, nationality has no impact on a certain behavior or activity, from what I can see.
    The military decided a long time ago that it didn't want to know about this certain personal characteristic. If a gay soldier's patriotism didn't outweigh his urge to broadcast his personal desires, then he/she wasn't worth keeping in uniform.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    At the most basic levels, nationality has no impact on a certain behavior or activity, from what I can see.


    Really? Ever watch Jersey Shore? They're an embarrassment to all Italians : )


    Because when your dealing with a human trait that's related to a certain "activity or behavior" then you're tampering with comfort levels and the rights of others to a certain yet differing comfort level


    Sorry but if you're uncomfortable around gays that's YOUR problem. You don't have a "right" to not be made uncomfortable by someone's sexual preference.
    A gay person is supposed to shut their mouth so as not to offend your delicate nature? Are you uncomfortable around women? How about blacks? How about the elderly? Where does it end for you and people like you?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : Soldiers weren't being asked, so theres was nothing to lie about in the first place. The policy required admittance or witness to homosexuality. If a soldier is comfortable enough to admit their sexual orientation, AND the rest of his/her unit is comfortable with the gay soldier, then everybody is happy. Thats great. Unfortunately, the entire military and the surrounding world isn't that  understanding. It isn't the government's job nor the rest of society to  DICTATE that someone MUST find a way to be comfortable in a certain situation. There's a reason why men and women don't share the same bathrooms and showers. Why must a majority (yes, a HUGE majority) of the military be forced into a situation they would rather not be in? I already stated that the "mandatory removal" of gay troops was always the wrong solution. I do feel that a certain non-judicial punishment (Article15) should have been the option due to a soldiers INSISTENCE on RISKING a unit's cohesion and readiness. The best solution, I feel,should have been to leave the application or non-application of punishment at the unit level under the commanders and leadership discretion as to whether the unit's cohesion and readiness was/will be affected.
    Posted by sof7squash[/QUOTE]

    You're wrong about the "nothing to lie about" part.

    Gay recruits were forced to conceal or lie about their relationships; they couldn't talk about their partners in any context other than "friend"; they couldn't include their partners in military functions or other rituals; they couldn't honestly participate in otherwise 'hetero' activities or customs young people frequently engage in - all under threat of losing their job.

    Soldiers are required to do all sorts of things they might be uncomfortable with (including killing another human being, e.g., morality) as part of their job description, even perhaps showering with other men.  I submit that anyone who feels "uncomfortable" simply being around gay people is either very insecure, very misinformed, very dogmatic, or a bit of all three.

    There is no evidence or indication that a unit's cohesion or readiness will be adversely affected.  Any "punishment" would still be discriminatory.

    All of this is beside the inherent dignity and decency of a battle-fallen soldier's same-sex spouse - one day - finally being given a tri-folded flag at a military funeral.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]At the most basic levels, nationality has no impact on a certain behavior or activity, from what I can see. Really? Ever watch Jersey Shore? They're an embarrassment to all Italians : ) Because when your dealing with a human trait that's related to a certain "activity or behavior" then you're tampering with comfort levels and the rights of others to a certain yet differing comfort level Sorry but if you're uncomfortable around gays that's YOUR problem. You don't have a "right" to not be made uncomfortable by someone's sexual preference. A gay person is supposed to shut their mouth so as not to offend your delicate nature? Are you uncomfortable around women? How about blacks? How about the elderly? Where does it end for you and people like you?
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]

    Actually I DO have a right to not be forced into an uncomfortable situation. Why bother separating men and women if anyone can be made uncomfortable at someone elses whim?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    Actually I DO have a right to not be forced into an uncomfortable situation. Why bother separating men and women if anyone can be made uncomfortable at someone elses whim?


    Ever hear of coed bathrooms? If you're uncomfortable that's YOUR hangup.

    If you consider being around gay people as being force into an uncomfortable situation then I truly pity you. What a sad life you live.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]Actually I DO have a right to not be forced into an uncomfortable situation. Why bother separating men and women if anyone can be made uncomfortable at someone elses whim? Ever hear of coed bathrooms? If you're uncomfortable that's YOUR hangup. If you consider being around gay people as being force into an uncomfortable situation then I truly pity you. What a sad life you live.
    Posted by WhichOnesPink[/QUOTE]

    Coed bathrooms is a lame response. You don't have people standing around naked with the opportunity for anyone to look at someone else in a sexual manner. It's easy for a military outsider to spout what its policies should be. You liberals are always consistent with dictating what others should be doing.
    When was the last time you showered with someone that held opposite sexual preferences?
    For the record, I don't feel uncomfortable around gays. There is a close quarter limit to where I would begin to feel uncomfortable. Does it make you better than me because your limit (or lack of) is greater than mine? I don't think so. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : Blacks made a whole lotta white guys uncomfortable druing WWII as well.  We got over it. Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    Blacks in WWII was a different situation because race or nationality doesn't relate to certain basic behaviors or actions, homosexuality does.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhichOnesPink. Show WhichOnesPink's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance... : Coed bathrooms is a lame response. You don't have people standing around naked with the opportunity for anyone to look at someone else in a sexual manner. It's easy for a military outsider to spout what its policies should be. You liberals are always consistent with dictating what others should be doing. When was the last time you showered with someone that held opposite sexual preferences? For the record, I don't feel uncomfortable around gays. There is a close quarter limit to where I would begin to feel uncomfortable. Does it make you better than me because your limit (or lack of) is greater than mine? I don't think so. 
    Posted by sof7squash[/QUOTE]

    Haha...it's only lame because you're a bigot.

    Oh and psst....I'm no liberal. In fact the libs on BDC reading what you wrote just spit their coffee out with laughter at you accusing me of being a lib. 

    And lastly I don't think I'm "better" than anyone. That you'd think that speaks volumes about you.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sof7squash. Show sof7squash's posts

    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell - Good Riddance...

    Haha...it's only lame because you're a bigot.

    Oh and psst....I'm no liberal. In fact the libs on BDC reading what you wrote just spit their coffee out with laughter at you accusing me of being a lib. 

    And lastly I don't think I'm "better" than anyone. That you'd think that speaks volumes about you.

    The bigot card, very good. Now try to read the complete post. You brought up the coed bathroom like it was even remotely related to a military latrine/shower. You've obviously never seen either.
    Try not to be like Airhead W@nker, one person who thinks they know everything about all things is enough.
    You must have slipped on some liberal banana peal, sorry about that. Your superior knowledge of what MY comfort level SHOULD be threw me off, which made me accuse you of thinking you were "better".
    So you have me interested, now. When was the last time you showered with someone that held opposite sexual preferences?
     
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