Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    The transcripts show that in July 2010, Elizabeth Hofacre, an IRS official in Cincinnati who was coordinating "emerging issues" for the agency's tax-exempt unit, was corresponding with Washington-based IRS tax attorney Carter Hull.

     

    In April 2010 Hofacre had been put in charge of handling tax-exempt status applications from conservative groups by her Cincinnati supervisor.

     

    She was asked to summarize her initial findings in a spreadsheet and notify a small group of colleagues, including some staff in the Washington tax-exempt unit. However, she sent her email to a larger number of people in Washington by accident.

     

    "Everybody in DC got it by mistake," Hofacre said in the transcripts. She later clarified that she did not mean all officials but those in the IRS Exempt Organizations Rulings and Agreements unit.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    each day new scandals are each trying to trump the others.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

     

    our federal govt has lost all credibility

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    47% now believe IRS scandal involves the Whitehouse!

     

     

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/18/cnn-poll-did-white-house-order-irs-targeting/

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.


     

    Conservative activists are planning to storm Capitol Hill on Wednesday for what they are predicting will be “the largest Tea Party protest since 2010.”

    The protest — drawing tea partiers like TV host Glenn Beck and Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul — is in response to the Internal Revenue Service’s recent admission that it has been specifically targeting conservative groups for extra scrutiny.

    The gathering on the West Lawn of the Capitol is being called the “Audit the IRS” Rally.



    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/18/the-largest-tea-party-protest-since-2010-is-tomorrow/#ixzz2WbS31SHH

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    Rally against IRS to be largest since 2010!

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/06/19/Tea-Party-rally-to-be-largest-since-2010/UPI-60291371627000/?spt=hts&or=3

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    IRS set to pay out 70 million in bonuses!!

    Really???

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/19/tea-party-groups-major-irs-protest-outside-capitol/

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    Face it.  Our government infrastructure has been infiltrated by progressives whowillstop at nothing.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Face it.  Our government infrastructure has been infiltrated by progressives whowillstop at nothing.




    Are you talking about Issa ?

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    What I don't understand tvoter is complete blindness that these tparty and conservative groups were actually breaking the law. No political groups are allowed to become tax exempt because political speech is taxed.It's the same reason why church's and religious organizations are not allowed to participate in politics.  

     

     

     



    Whether you think they were breaking the law while all liberal groups were complete saints is irrelevent. The IRS and government cannot target entities based on political preference. ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION CYCLE!

     

     

     

     

     



    It's not the fact that they were conservative but that they were political groups applying for tax exempt status. THAT in itself is illegal! I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Political speech  IStaxed. You would just give them tax exempt status even thought its a crime?

     

     

     



    RSF4LIFE:

     

    You are absolutely on point and correct in your comments and assertions,.  No matter how a group is viewed in the political realm, if they engage in political speech, polical advocacy, etc., they are NOT entitled to tax exempt status.

    When you donate to such a group they point out to you your donation is NOT tax deductible. 

    That law has not changed since I was a practicing tax lawyer...both for a downtowm law firm as well as a litigator for the IRS. (Office for the Chief Counsel, Summer Street, Boston)

    If you help a group of citizens start a formal group you make sure they know what they want to be and what they need to do and not to do to conform to the rules of their legal and tax status once obtained.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Some emotional testimony today from those groups that were targeted due to assumed political affiliations and harrassed by the govt!

     




    Ya don't hear the other 226 groups crying about being "targeted".

     

    However a further 226 other political groups were also placed in the same review whose affiliations were not immediately apparent from their name alone, which is often the case among liberal campaign groups.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point, Concerned_Citizen. Another point some posters seem to be only on broadcast mode...not listening or reading or researching how the tax code applies in this area. 

    They also seem to want to ignore the following:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Already reeling from a pair of scandals, the Internal Revenue Service is drawing new criticism over plans to hand out millions of dollars in employee bonuses.

    The Obama administration has ordered agencies to cancel discretionary bonuses because of automatic spending cuts, but the IRS says it’s merely following legal obligations under a union contract.

    The IRS has been ordered by the OBAMA adminisration to cancel those discretionary bonuses. They are now trying to negotiate a deal with the union. We can all imagine how easy that must be. :)

    This is no cut and dry "scandal"...not by any means. And to try and paint the IRS as full of progressives is too too funny. I worked for them. IRS agents as well as litigators as a rule are anything but left leaning  I am an exception to the general rule. I kept my political views to myself. I was not part of the general culture, but I was a well qualified tax lawyer and litigator. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Face it.  Our government infrastructure has been infiltrated by progressives whowillstop at nothing.

     




    Are you talking about Issa ?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Fat, dumb and stupid is no way to go through life.

    Big government is squeezing out the very freedoms they are supposed to protect.  THAT'S a bi-partisan problem.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    What I don't understand tvoter is complete blindness that these tparty and conservative groups were actually breaking the law. No political groups are allowed to become tax exempt because political speech is taxed.It's the same reason why church's and religious organizations are not allowed to participate in politics.  

     

     

     



    Whether you think they were breaking the law while all liberal groups were complete saints is irrelevent. The IRS and government cannot target entities based on political preference. ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION CYCLE!

     

     

     

     

     



    It's not the fact that they were conservative but that they were political groups applying for tax exempt status. THAT in itself is illegal! I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Political speech  IStaxed. You would just give them tax exempt status even thought its a crime?

     

     

     



    RSF4LIFE:

     

    You are absolutely on point and correct in your comments and assertions,.  No matter how a group is viewed in the political realm, if they engage in political speech, polical advocacy, etc., they are NOT entitled to tax exempt status.

    When you donate to such a group they point out to you your donation is NOT tax deductible. 

    That law has not changed since I was a practicing tax lawyer...both for a downtowm law firm as well as a litigator for the IRS. (Office for the Chief Counsel, Summer Street, Boston)

    If you help a group of citizens start a formal group you make sure they know what they want to be and what they need to do and not to do to conform to the rules of their legal and tax status once obtained.

     

     




    My understanding is that the line is drawn at supporting politicians.  in other words, having an opinion, such as we are being taxed too much, or that gay marraige should be legal, are both exempt, should the want to be considered as such.

     

    Given your past expereince, how would you see the line drawn between non-profit and something else?

    On a personal level, I say jetision the who non-profit thing, or at least seriously rework it. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/06/19/tea-party-protesters-rally-against-irs-government/

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.


    http://blog.heritage.org/2013/06/19/tea-party-protests-irs-at-u-s-capitol-rally/

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    twice as many turn out for TP rally against the IRS than to see Obama in Berlin where in 08 he drew a crowd of over 200,000

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/twice-as-many-turn-out-at-dc-tea-party-rally-than-go-see-obama-in-berlin/

    Europeans claim Obama is just Bush II

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    twice as many turn out for TP rally against the IRS than to see Obama in Berlin where in 08 he drew a crowd of over 200,000

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/twice-as-many-turn-out-at-dc-tea-party-rally-than-go-see-obama-in-berlin/

    Europeans claim Obama is just Bush II



    I know this will drive the progressives crazy, but calling him Bush II is a upgrade.  Bush was a loser as well.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    Right now the IRS story looks stalled and confused. Congressional investigators are asking for documents—"The IRS is being a little slow," said a staffer—and interviewing workers. Pieces of testimony are being released and leaked, which has allowed one congressman, Democrat Elijah Cummings, to claim there's actually no need for an investigation, the story's over, the mystery solved.

    When the scandal broke in early May, the Obama administration vowed to get to the bottom of it with an FBI investigation. Many of us were skeptical. There's a sign we were right.

    On June 13, FBI Robert Director Robert Mueller testified before the House Judiciary Committee and was questioned by Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) about former tax-exempt office chief Lois Lerner's claim that the targeting of conservative groups was due to the incompetence of workers in the Cincinnati office.

    Jordan: "What can you tell us—I mean you started a month ago, what can you tell us about this, have you found . . . the now-infamous two rogue agents, have you discovered who those people are?"

    Mueller: "Needless to say, because it is under investigation, I can't give out any of the details."

    Jordan: "Can you tell me . . . how many agents, investigators you've assigned to the case?"

    Mueller: "Ah, may be able to do that, but I'd have to get back to you."

    Jordan: "Can you tell me who the lead investigator is?"

    Mueller: "Off the top of my head, no."

    Jordan: "This is the most important issue in front of the country in the last six weeks, you don't know who's heading up the case, who the lead investigator is?"

    Mueller: "Ah, at this juncture, no. . . . I have not had a recent briefing on it."

    Jordan: "Do you know if you've talked to any of the victims—have you talked to any of the groups who were targeted by their government—have you met with any of the tea-party folks since May 14, 2013?"

    Mueller: "I don't know what the status of the interviews are by the team that's on it."

    Wow. He'd probably know something about the FBI's investigation of the IRS if he cared about it, if it had some priority or importance within his agency. This week an embarrassed Mr. Mueller was ready for questions from senators. There is an investigation, he said, and "over a dozen" agents have been assigned. Well, better than nothing.

    Attorneys for the best-known of the targeted groups confirm that they've heard nothing. From the American Center for Law and Justice: "None of our clients have been contacted or interviewed by the FBI." From lawyer Cleta Mitchell: "I hear from people around the country, and no one has been contacted." All of which is strange. If the FBI were investigating a series of muggings, you'd hope they'd start by interviewing the people who'd been mugged.

    Meanwhile a CNN poll shows the number of people who believe the targeting program was directed by the White House is up 10 points the past month, to 47%.

    So things have gotten pretty confused, maybe because it's in the interest of a lot of people to confuse it.

    Again, what is historic about this scandal, what makes it unique and uniquely dangerous, is that it is different in kind from previous IRS scandals. In the past it was always elite versus elite, power guys using the agency against other power guys. This scandal is different because it's the elite versus the people. It is an entrenched and fearsome power versus regular citizens.

    The scandal broke, of course, when Lois Lerner deviously planted a question at a Washington conference. She was trying to get out ahead of a forthcoming inspector general's report that would reveal the targeting. She said that "our line people in Cincinnati who handled the applications" used "wrong" methods. Also "in some cases, cases sat around for a while." The Cincinnati workers "sent some letters out that were far too broad," in some cases even asking for contributors' names. "That's not appropriate."

    Since that day, the question has been: Was the targeting of conservative groups in fact the work of incompetent staffers in Cincinnati, or were higher-ups in the Washington office of the IRS involved? Ms. Lerner said it was all Cincinnati.

    But then the information cascade began. The Washington Post interviewed Cincinnati IRS workers who said everything came from the top. The Wall Street Journal reported congressional investigators had been told by the workers that they had been directed from Washington. Word came that one applicant group, after receiving lengthy and intrusive requests for additional information, including donor names, received yet another letter asking for even more information—signed by Lois Lerner.

    Catherine Engelbrecht of True the Vote, which sought tax-exempt status, recently came into possession of a copy of a 20-month-old letter from the IRS's Taxpayer Advocate Service in Houston, acknowledging that her case had been assigned to an agent in Cincinnati. "He is waiting for a determination from their office in Washington," the advocate said. The agent was "unable to give us a timeframe" on when determination would be made.

    The evidence is overwhelming that the Washington office of the IRS was involved. But who in Washington? How high did it go, how many were involved, how exactly did they operate?

    Those are the questions that remain to be answered. That's what the investigations are about.

    Rep. Cummings, having declared the mystery solved, this week released the entire 205-page transcript of an interview between congressional investigators and a frontline manager in the Cincinnati office. The manager, a self-described conservative Republican, was asked: "Do you have any reason to believe that anyone in the White House was involved in the decision to screen Tea Party cases?" The answer: "I have no reason to believe that."

    There, said Mr. Cummings, case closed. But that testimony settles nothing. Nobody imagines the White House picked up a phone to tell IRS workers in Cincinnati to target their enemies. That, as they say, is not how it's done.

    The frontline manager also said, in his interview, "I'll say my realm was so low down, and after the initial review of a case, which was, you know, within three days after assignment, I became less and less aware of what happened above me." He said he didn't do any targeting, but "I'm not in a position to discuss anybody else's intention but my own."

    What investigators have to do now is follow the trail through the IRS in Washington, including political appointees.

    Questions: Do the investigators have a list of everyone who worked in the executive office of the IRS commissioner? Have they contacted those people and asked when they learned of the targeting? What did they do when they learned? Who, if anyone, thwarted any attempts to stop it? And what about those bonuses the IRS is reportedly about to award its employees? How does that figure in?

    Congress, including both its battling investigative committees, must get the answers to these questions.

    The House speaker should make sure it's a priority. There's no sign the FBI will.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    every road ends somewhere

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    Acting IRS commissioner Danny Werfel on Monday told reporters that the now-infamous “Be On The Lookout” list was far broader than was originally disclosed in the Treasury Department inspector general’s report. Reports from outlets including the Associated Press, which I cited in my original report, and now Bloomberg News, confirmed Werfel’s account, indicating that various versions of the list not only included terms like “tea party,” but also “progressive,” “Occupy,” and “Israel.”

    A November 2010 version of the list obtained by National Review Online, however, suggests that while the list did contain the word “progressive,” screeners were in fact instructed to treat “progressive” groups differently from “tea party” groups. Whereas screeners were merely alerted that a designation of 501(c)(3) status “may not be appropriate” for applications containing the word ”progressive” – 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from conducting any political activities – they were told to send those of tea-party groups off IRS higher-ups for further scrutiny.

    That means the applications of progressive groups could be approved on the spot by line agents, while those of tea-party groups could not. Furthermore, the November 2010 list noted that tea-party cases were “currently being coordinated with EOT,” which stands for Exempt Organizations Technical, a group of tax lawyers in Washington, D.C. Those of progressive groups were not.

    The AP reported earlier on Monday that “Terms including ‘Israel,’ ’Progressive’ and ‘Occupy’ were used by agency workers to help pick groups for closer examination.” That appears to be misleading, as there is no indication from the list examined by NRO that progressive groups were singled out for heightened scrutiny in a manner similar to tea-party groups. Cases involving healthcare legislation, however, were. “New applications are subject to secondary screening in Group 7821,” the list notes.

    Also sent along for more further examination were applications involving ”disputed territories in the Middle East,” in particular, those that advocated a “one sided point of view,” which perhaps explains the testimony of Cincinnati screener Gary Muthert, who told commitee investigators that the applications of pro-Israel groups went to an antiterrorism unit within the agency.

    Based on the lookout list examined by NRO, however, it is inaccurate to say that progressive and liberal groups were subjected to the same or similar scrutiny as tea-party groups, or even that a surprisingly broad array of criteria was applied to screen applications for tax exemption.

     

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/351930/lookout-list-not-much-broader-originally-thought-contrary-reports-eliana-johnson

     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Emails show IRS scandal did NOT originate solely in Cincinnati. Higher ups requested info on conservative groups.

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    The wheels have fallen off another whackjob wingnut conspiracy theory.


     Yea accept it's not a conspiracy when they admit doing it dumba55!!

     
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