Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    Before the usual suspects scream at me in indignation, this comment is not about Trayvon Martin. It is awful that the 17 year is dead. We all wish that what happened never happened. The original police report on the incident indicates that the police found Martin dead and the "white" Hispanic Zimmerman with injuries to his face and the back of his head. In addition his back was wet and had grass stains supporting his contention that Martin was on top of him. Since this incident occured, we have had numerous politicians whine about the "Stand Your Ground Law" in Florida which they claim applies to this case and which they say encourages vigilanteism. Have these same politicians denounced the actions by the Black Panther Party  to  detain (kidnap) a citizen that has not even been charged with a crime? Numerous "wanted dead or alive" posters have been seen. Seems like these actions are vigilanteism too, no? This is beginning to remind me of numerous cases where the media and the politicians jumped to conclusions long before the facts were clear - Charles Stuart, the Duke rape case, etc. I am sure there will be someone to bring some additional facts forward without the emotional claptrap that might explain what is going on.
    Posted by Newtster

    This case is sad on so many levels.  I heard somewhere that the shooter sustained injuries but there are so many stories out there it's a challenge to know which ones are correct or not.  If he was assaulted, I think raises legitimate questions regarding self defense.  

     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Ok, but then his mother would have to either be mistaken or lying that she is 100% certain it that the person pleading for help was here son. Voice/Eyewitness IDs between people are very shaky, but improve drastically if the identifier and identified are close relations like that. Whether or not Zimmerman was assaulted in the beginning would become 100% irrelevant if that pleading voice was Martin.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow


    Sure, but if that voice pleading for help was Zimmerman and not Martin then where are you.  ABC has an article out that says an eyewitness saw a man with Zimmermans description on the ground calling for help...


    I'm sure you have to address recall bias regularly, and know people can be pretty unreliable.  I thought he was on the phone with his girl, how is his mother involved?

    The only thing we all know for sure is the kid was followed, the kid was shot and killed.  And it didn't have to end that way.  It's very, very sad.  
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    Can't believe that turd hasn't been charged with a crime yet. 
    Posted by UserName99


    It seems like he should have by now.  But maybe they don't have anything to charge him with.

    The case seems poorly handled by the police. 
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : It seems like he should have by now.  But maybe they don't have anything to charge him with. The case seems poorly handled by the police. 
    Posted by Rushfan2112


    Things work a little differently in Florida.  The American Legislative Exchange Council writes their laws, so you have to check with them first before you can make an arrest....especially when the crime is committed with a gun.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    You can hear on the 9-11 call, the 9-11 operator tells Zimmerman not to pursue the kid, he does anyway.  The guy wasn't even an official neighborhood watch volunteer.  He was one citizen approaching another citizen.

    You can't chase someone down, confront them, shoot them and then claim self defense.

    This is really not that complicated.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : I think you might be simplifying it a bit, maybe not. You can certainly chase someone and if they start beating on you claim it was self-defense. Certainly just becasue someone is chasing you doesn't give you the right to beat on the person chasing you without some reason. And of course you can't chase someone and shoot them down for the bleep of it either. I just don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.
    Posted by Newtster


    You sound like someone trying to justify something that is not justifiable.  Your logic is as warped as your premise and both are non sensical. 

    I seriously doubt the character and motivation of any human being trying to justify this murder.  I actually find it sick.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    Zimmerman was told not to follow the deceased. Zimmerman was clearly the person instigating the event. Zimmerman had in his mind this kid had just stolen something. Most likely Zimmerman put his hands on the deceased, which in turn started the altercation. Like most civilians who carry, he panicked under real pressure and discharged his weapon
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Zimmerman got out of his car to persue Martin, against the advice of the police. Kinda hard for the kid to attack someone in their car with a bag of skittles. That's enough to disprove your stupid theory. The fact that Zimmerman was losing, to a kid that weighed 100lbs less than him doesn't have any bearing on determining who started the fight. It does sound unbelievable that a kid who was armed with only a bag of skittles and an iced tea would attack someone bigger than him, who's been following him and in a neighborhood he wasn't familiar with. Ya that makes perfect sense..... Geez, do you ever think rationally?
    Posted by airborne-rgr


    All of the evidence needs ot be sorted out.  But things are starting to come out which appear to be in line with Zimmerman's story.

    Fist this is not a stand your ground case.

    It is classic self defense durign an altercation; the quetions of how it started and how it became deadly are the real issues.

    Martin a seventeen year old kid is dead and Zimmerman the 27 year old community watch young man was bloodied with cuts to the back of his head, a broken nose and grass stains on his clothing indicating a struggle with the deceased.

    Was it necessary for Zimmerman to follow Martin in retrospect, no. 
    Did Zimmerman following Martin put the deadly events in motion, yes.
    Was Martin entitled to feel threatened, yes.


    Here is where is gets difficult.

    If Zimmerman lost Martin like he says and heads back to his car and is confronted or jumped by Martin, was Zimmerman then the instigator or the person being attacked?  A witness has come forward stating that they say someone on top of a person banging their head on the ground.

    This unfortunately appears to be an escalation and reaction that resulted in a needless death.  Zimmerman could very well be guilty of some level of manslaughter.




     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Well his story obviously improves if there is evidence Zimmerman was on the ground calling for help. "George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News. Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him. The new information is the most complete version yet of what Zimmerman claims happened on the night of Feb. 26 when he shot and killed the teenager. In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin. The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning. He was not arrested" " Of course, if you are attacked by someone with a gun, but cannot escape without giving them a clear shot...   you're only options are risky: running anyway and hoping you aren't hit, trying to incapacitate your assailant, simply begging for your life. Now, since I wasn't a perfect wrestler, there were a few occasions where my head was slammed into the hard rubber mat. One of those times had me out cold for a bit.  I would guess that having one's head slammed repeatedly into concrete is likely to cause significantly worse damage - particularly if done by someone with the strength to knock you flat on your back with a single punch. I got that, from a memory that some article said the mother listened to the 911 calls, and on one of them heard her son pleading for help.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow

    What, I saw a reporter say that a witness said Zimmerman was "walking back to his vehicle" when he was assaulted by Martin. If that is the case this whole thing changes 180 degrees.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : I have no opinion, nor can I form one based on media reports, as to whether Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. What I am p'o'd about is  the police apparently just took Zimmerman at his word and let him walk. No investigation, no securing a potential crime scene, nothing. That is either just plain stupid or a concerted effort to overlook a potential crime.
    Posted by airborne-rgr

    An Orlando TV reporter said she spoke to an eyewitness that the police had also spoken to that said Zimmerman was heading back to his vehicle when Martin jumped him and assaulted him.
    I think there is a lot to this that has not come out yet.
     
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