Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    The police have released partial details 1 MONTH after the fact because they are now trying to cover up for their at best incompetent handling of this case. 

    I'm sure if Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on his head it would be standard protocol to get pictures of those injuries, so where are they? 

    This case does not pertain to the Stand your Ground law because there is clear evidence that Zimmerman was the one in pursuit of the victim.  Despite the warped views of some, an armed individual can not roam the streets seeking out conflict and then use deadly force to end the conflict, that is not self defense.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Agreed, but at the very least they should've done the basic police work as required by law. One of which is that is standard for the police in FL to administer a drug/alcohol test in shooting incidents. Even that basic test wasn't done. In fact they tested the victim for drugs but not the shooter. Now that's just either willful ignorance or a concerted effort. Either way it's a lot of incompetence to stir outrage, at the very least.
    Posted by airborne-rgr[/QUOTE]
    I agree. My issue is everyone has tried and convicted Zimmerman without all the facts and/or anger at the incompetent police.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]A 140-pounder is not going to knock a 250-pounder to the ground with the force of a single punch unless his name is Manny Pacquiao. A 140 pounder, however, can break someone's nose. Maybe Zimmerman blinked, stumbled, and hit his head on the pavement. Either way, I have serious trouble believing that someone who can knock another person to the ground with a single punch, then smashes that person's head into the pavement repeatedly, is not going to cause some serious damage. That's easily unconscious/concussion territory. As I said, I have person experience on the receiving end during a wrestling match. And that was just head against hard rubber mat, not concrete!
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]
    Here is what a friend of Zimmerman said he was told by Zimmerman, "he was heading back to his vehicle and got attacked from behind". The eyewitness (the only one I know of that saw the beginning) said "the victim came around and jumped Zimmerman from behind/side and knocked him to the ground".
    Now, IF (big if but...) Martin found a rock or used the bottle he was carrying and hit Zimmerman in the back of the head and Zimmerman fell forward and hit his face on the ground or car, that would have temporarily dazed him.
    The witness then said "Martin was on top of Zimmerman hitting him and Zimmerman was calling out for help".
    I am just saying it could happen this way and lets wait until all the facts are known.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]The police have released partial details 1 MONTH after the fact because they are now trying to cover up for their at best incompetent handling of this case.  I'm sure if Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on his head it would be standard protocol to get pictures of those injuries, so where are they?  This case does not pertain to the Stand your Ground law because there is clear evidence that Zimmerman was the one in pursuit of the victim.  Despite the warped views of some, an armed individual can not roam the streets seeking out conflict and then use deadly force to end the conflict, that is not self defense.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    Except, that there is an eyewitness that stated that Mr. Zimmerman broke off the chase after being told to by the police. As he was heading back to his car, Mr. Martin attacked him from behind.
    I suggest you and all hold judgement until all the facts are out there.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Just about every thread here evolves as the facts come out.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]
    I agree and most are 100% wrong at first.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Things work a little differently in Florida.  The American Legislative Exchange Council writes their laws, so you have to check with them first before you can make an arrest....especially when the crime is committed with a gun.
    Posted by UserName99[/QUOTE]


    Things are different in Florida.  The crime rate in general is off the charts compared to Massachusetts.  Carrying a gun in Florida, while not essential, makes a whole lot more sense in Florida.  There is a reason there are more gated communities than here: crime being at the top of the list.

    Still, I think Zimmerman was unwise to have a gun on him.  From what I read, there was a struggle for the gun.  Let's see if that holds up.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Asking questions to ascertain truth?  The truth is in the hands of a shooter and a dead person, good luck with that.  The police has given themselves and Zimmerman 1 full month to cover tracks and get stories straight, anything that is revealed at this point, from the incompetent or corrupt police, should be judged with great suspicion. The only facts that matters are that Zimmerman was armed, Zimmerman was told by the police not to pursue Martin and he was the one who pursued Martin.  We know those to be facts.  Depsite some people's warped views, an armed person can not seek out conflict with an unarmed person, use deadly force and plead self defense.  The rest of the speculation is just noise. It really isn't that complicated, unless you have an agenda and the fact that you feel the need to draw attention to Zimmerman's ethnic background is pretty sound evidence of someone who has an agenda. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    You are missing a HUGE FACT! There is an eyewitness that said he did break off pursuit and Mr. Martin launched the attack from behind. If true, that would potentially make the use of the gun OK in self defense. Just saying. No speculation and it is that complicated unless you want to hear only one side and bury your head in the sand!
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Except, that there is an eyewitness that stated that Mr. Zimmerman broke off the chase after being told to by the police. As he was heading back to his car, Mr. Martin attacked him from behind. I suggest you and all hold judgement until all the facts are out there.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    Listen to the tape, Zimmerman had no intent of breaking off the chase, hence his inability to give the police a firm location of where he would be.

    As far as "all the facts" getting out there.  It has been a month, the facts are gone and people have their stories straight.   I'm certainly not putting any stock in facts produced by a police department that did a toxology on the victim but not the shooter.  A police department that didn't even take the time to go throught the kids cell phone and try and let someone know he was dead. 
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : You are missing a HUGE FACT! There is an eyewitness that said he did break off pursuit and Mr. Martin launched the attack from behind. If true, that would potentially make the use of the gun OK in self defense. Just saying. No speculation and it is that complicated unless you want to hear only one side and bury your head in the sand!
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    Right, I'm the one burying my head in the sand.    Armed civilian on tape saying he is pursuing the victim.  That is a fact.  You are the one operating in hypotheticals.

    It has been proven at great length that Eyewittnesses are statistically not reliable but for the record there is also a wittness who claims that she clearly heard the screams of a kid and the screams stopped after the gun shots.  She also claims she was ignored by the PD.  Enjoy the sand.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Right, I'm the one burying my head in the sand.    Armed civilian on tape saying he is pursuing the victim.  That is a fact.  You are the one operating in hypotheticals. It has been proven at great length that Eyewittnesses are statistically not reliable but for the record there is also a wittness who claims that she clearly heard the screams of a kid and the screams stopped after the gun shots.  She also claims she was ignored by the PD.  Enjoy the sand.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    LOL, but she didn't see WHO was screaming! There is ONE person who was there! Sounds like you have a different agenda and wouldn't believe anyone who said the sky is blue and Zimmerman is innocent.
    Maybe she was ignored because she couldn't tell WHO was screaming. Again, you are looking at one side and believe all and the other and doubt all. That is fine but at some point you have to open your eyes and see facts.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : there is also a wittness who claims that she clearly heard the screams of a kid and the screams stopped after the gun shots.  She also claims she was ignored by the PD.   Do you have the link to the story that shows this? Thanks!
    Posted by WhichOnesPink2[/QUOTE]

    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/16/family-of-miami-teen-killed-in-central-florida-calling-for-fbi-probe/


     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Things are different in Florida.  The crime rate in general is off the charts compared to Massachusetts.  Carrying a gun in Florida, while not essential, makes a whole lot more sense in Florida.  There is a reason there are more gated communities than here: crime being at the top of the list. Still, I think Zimmerman was unwise to have a gun on him.  Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    There's also a lot more paranoia and racism in Florida (for a few different reasons)...hence those gated communities as well as prison stats, poverty rates, etc.

    I could go on about the differences, but I'll stop there.  Suffice to say that it's a big, diverse, state with a much denser population than is usually assumed.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : LOL, but she didn't see WHO was screaming! There is ONE person who was there! Sounds like you have a different agenda and wouldn't believe anyone who said the sky is blue and Zimmerman is innocent. Maybe she was ignored because she couldn't tell WHO was screaming. Again, you are looking at one side and believe all and the other and doubt all. That is fine but at some point you have to open your eyes and see facts.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    I have clearly stated the facts that inform my opinion. 

    Zimmerman was armed, Zimmerman identified and pursued Martin, Martin was unarmed. 

    Zimmerman is innocent?  Of what exactly is he innocent of? 
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : I have clearly stated the facts that inform my opinion.  Zimmerman was armed, Zimmerman identified and pursued Martin, Martin was unarmed.  Zimmerman is innocent?  Of what exactly is he innocent of? 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    Right! Ignoring the fact there is an eyewitness who spoke to the police that night and said he saw Martin jump Zimmerman from behind as Zimmerman was walking towards his vehicle.

    I didn't say he was innocent of anything. I have maintained and still do that all the facts are not known. Unlike you and others, I will reserve my calls for guilt or innocence until all the facts are out. I will also not pick and choose the "facts" I want to believe.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    Agendas aside...

    There appears to be agreement here on the tragic nature of this incident as well as the horribly inept conduct of the police (which would be tragic too if it wasn't so righteously dumb).

    Unfortunately, I think the lapse in time, the lack of meaningful concurrent evidence and the CYA tale-telling have all conspired to prevent any true accountability for these events.

    I wish that I wasn't more cynical about it, but I'm afraid the notion of "justice" in this case will prove to be deeply unsatisfying for all parties involved.

    Please excuse the comparison, but I think back to the Gifford shooting and its subsequent backbiting and armchair lawyering - which ended up serving nobody and was irrelevant to the matter: the violent suspension of what-might-have-been for a couple of young people who very likely did not deserve their fates.

    At its core, this is an issue of gun violence in a nation where gun ownership is held as a pseudo-sacred right.  The question is not IF it will affect us personally in some way, but WHEN.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Right! Ignoring the fact there is an eyewitness who spoke to the police that night and said he saw Martin jump Zimmerman from behind as Zimmerman was walking towards his vehicle. I didn't say he was innocent of anything. I have maintained and still do that all the facts are not known. Unlike you and others, I will reserve my calls for guilt or innocence until all the facts are out. I will also not pick and choose the "facts" I want to believe.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    And the alleged eyewitness says nothing that changes anything for me.

    You can't carry a gun around, chase people through streets inviting conflict, shoot an unarmed person and rationally claim self defense.  Zimmerman took it upon himself to attempt to take the law into his own hands and I truly can't believe some people don't feel that he should be prosecuted for this act.

     But he probably won't ever see the inside of a courtroom because the investigation was handled with such negligence and incompetence.

    On the 9-1-1 call you can clearly hear Zimmerman say "These A%%holes always get away..."  Of course the great irony is that Zimmerman shot a person who was guilty of at the absolute most being scared after being chased and fighting back, but Zimmerman is the A%%hole who will get away.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : There's also a lot more paranoia and racism in Florida (for a few different reasons)...hence those gated communities as well as prison stats, poverty rates, etc. I could go on about the differences, but I'll stop there.  Suffice to say that it's a big, diverse, state with a much denser population than is usually assumed.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Yes.  A strange place by Mass standards.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : Yes.  A strange place by Mass standards.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    By ANY standard.  Any place that unceasingly flat can't be quite right.

    Look at it this way: Cuba is 90 miles away, and many of those people decided on their own to stay in Cuba.

    Telling, ain't it...?
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : And the alleged eyewitness says nothing that changes anything for me. You can't carry a gun around, chase people through streets inviting conflict, shoot an unarmed person and rationally claim self defense.  Zimmerman took it upon himself to attempt to take the law into his own hands and I truly can't believe some people don't feel that he should be prosecuted for this act.  But he probably won't ever see the inside of a courtroom because the investigation was handled with such negligence and incompetence. On the 9-1-1 call you can clearly hear Zimmerman say "These A%%holes always get away..."  Of course the great irony is that Zimmerman shot a person who was guilty of at the absolute most being scared after being chased and fighting back, but Zimmerman is the A%%hole who will get away.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    So the simple fact he had a gun makes him guilty in your book? I am not saying he isn't guilty or an A-h0le I just prefer to wait for all the facts to make a judgement.
     
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    Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case

    In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Evidence in the Trayvon Martin case : So the simple fact he had a gun makes him guilty in your book? I am not saying he isn't guilty or an A-h0le I just prefer to wait for all the facts to make a judgement.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    I'd say you were twisting my words but that wouldn't be fair to people who twist words.


     
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