Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    "Obamacare is the law"...except when it isnt...another disaster  for the "Titanic" of laws...the SS Obamacare, hit by another iceberg and slowly sinking...man the lifeboats..


     


    In a potentially crippling blow to Obamacare, a federal appeals court panel declared Tuesday that government subsidies worth billions of dollars that helped 4.7 million people buy insurance on HealthCare.gov are illegal.


     



    A judicial panel in a 2-1 ruling said such subsidies can be granted only to those people who bought insurance in an Obamacare exchange run by an individual state or the District of Columbia — not on the federally run exchange HealthCare.gov.


     


    "Section 36B plainly makes subsidies available in the Exchanges established by states," wrote Senior Circuit Judge Raymond Randolph in his majority opinion, where he was joined by Judge Thomas Griffith. "We reach this conclusion, frankly, with reluctance. At least until states that wish to can set up their own Exchanges, our ruling will likely have significant consequences both for millions of individuals receiving tax credits through federal Exchanges and for health insurance markets more broadly...


     


    Indeed, the decision threatens to unleash a cascade of effects that could seriously compromise Obamacare's goals of compelling people to get health insurance, and helping them afford it.


     


    The Obama administration is certain to ask the full U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit to reverse the panel's decision, which for now does not have the rule of law.


     


    The ruling endorsed a controversial interpretation of the Affordable Care Act that argues that the HealthCare.gov subsidies are illegal because ACA does not explicitly empower a federal exchange to offer subsidized coverage, as it does in the case of state-created exchanges. Subsidies for more than 2 million people who bought coverage on state exchanges would not be affected by Tuesday's ruling if it is upheld.


    Obamacare was an atrociously badly drafted piece of legislation. That is what happens when zealots greedily plot a Government takeover of 1/6 of the private economy. Next time, someone read the bill before you pass it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    If it's just this one part in question that gets dropped does that mean the entire health care law has to be scrapped? It looks like about 4.7 million would be affected by this issue. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE] If it's just this one part in question that gets dropped does that mean the entire health care law has to be scrapped? It looks like about 4.7 million would be affected by this issue. [/QUOTE]

    I doubt it, but that doesn't mean enough damage can't be done. There are a lot of people like-minded with CLC who are bringing these suits (on top of the failed repeal vote efforts). I've heard a whole lot of invective against Obamacare, with a whole lot of nothing offered as an alternative.

    That said, 4.7 million is a big chunk of the total amount of new insureds, so it certainly represents a blow to the main goal of the law.

    If they end up uninsured rather than going through state exchanges, that's bad allright.

     

     

     

    But I continue to be curious about the bigger picture question of what the Obamacare opponents would have us do instead of Obamacare.

    We could scrap it and expand Medicaid/Medicare to cover the uninsureds, but then, we're paying for it directly with our tax dollars. I suspect that'd be more expensive than Obamacare's method of trying to coerce having insurance.

    Ditto for trying to encourage broader coverage, ie of part time workers, with more employer tax credits.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from high-road. Show high-road's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    Huzzah!!!

    Drinks all around ... let us celebrate cutting another rung out of the ladder of the lower classes and less fortunate.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    60 million uninsured? Hmm. That number seems tube growing faster than the number of illegal lawbreakers crossing the border.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.

    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.

    but, I am sure you will go on a screed or post some picture of dog by products instead of actually consider that approach.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE] If it's just this one part in question that gets dropped does that mean the entire health care law has to be scrapped? It looks like about 4.7 million would be affected by this issue. [/QUOTE]

    I doubt it, but that doesn't mean enough damage can't be done. There are a lot of people like-minded with CLC who are bringing these suits (on top of the failed repeal vote efforts). I've heard a whole lot of invective against Obamacare, with a whole lot of nothing offered as an alternative.

    That said, 4.7 million is a big chunk of the total amount of new insureds, so it certainly represents a blow to the main goal of the law.

    If they end up uninsured rather than going through state exchanges, that's bad allright.

     

     

     

    But I continue to be curious about the bigger picture question of what the Obamacare opponents would have us do instead of Obamacare.

    We could scrap it and expand Medicaid/Medicare to cover the uninsureds, but then, we're paying for it directly with our tax dollars. I suspect that'd be more expensive than Obamacare's method of trying to coerce having insurance.

    Ditto for trying to encourage broader coverage, ie of part time workers, with more employer tax credits.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Medicare/Medicaid pays MUCH lower to hospitals and docs than private insurers so hospitals would lose even more money than they do now if Medicare/Medicaid was expanded. If it wasn't for the help of the Big 3 (TAHP, BCBS, HPHC) in this state, many hospitals would go under. BWH and MGH both lose tens of millions of dollars on Medicaid/Medicare patients. The Big 3 agreed to bump their base rates to help offset the losses. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable. then, let's go more free market, see how that works out. but, I am sure you will go on a screed or post some picture of dog by products instead of actually consider that approach.


    I used to post those in response to skeeter20's comments, but not yours.


     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.

    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.

    but, I am sure you will go on a screed or post some picture of dog by products instead of actually consider that approach.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Let's go more free market"? Could you be more vague??? Private insurers ARE the free market. BCBS, HPHC, TAHP, United, Cigna, etc.....are all private insurers...aka...free market

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.

    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.

    but, I am sure you will go on a screed or post some picture of dog by products instead of actually consider that approach.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Let's go more free market"? Could you be more vague??? Private insurers ARE the free market. BCBS, HPHC, TAHP, United, Cigna, etc.....are all private insurers...aka...free market

    [/QUOTE]

    We haven't had a free market system for the masses in fifty years.

    most people need to get their insurance via their employers.  The poor get it via the government, as does the military.  The elderly are on Medicare.  All told, it is about 50% of those needing health care were not in the free market prior to Obamacare.  Some small percentage of people bought highly regulated individual plans, most likely catastrophic coverage only.  They operated in a free market. Now, the number is 100% are not in the free market.  That't the net-net of Obamacare.

    a free market system means that everyone is in the same market, and can buy, or not buy, based on their personal needs and wants.  That's about as far from this system and the one that preceded it as you can get.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:


    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    []]]]


    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [[[]]]If it's just this one part in question that gets dropped does that mean the entire health care law has to be scrapped? It looks like about 4.7 million would be affected by this issue. [[[]]]

    I doubt it, but that doesn't mean enough damage can't be done. There are a lot of people like-minded with CLC who are bringing these suits (on top of the failed repeal vote efforts). I've heard a whole lot of invective against Obamacare, with a whole lot of nothing offered as an alternative.


    That said, 4.7 million is a big chunk of the total amount of new insureds, so it certainly represents a blow to the main goal of the law.


    If they end up uninsured rather than going through state exchanges, that's bad allright.


    But I continue to be curious about the bigger picture question of what the Obamacare opponents would have us do instead of Obamacare.


    We could scrap it and expand Medicaid/Medicare to cover the uninsureds, but then, we're paying for it directly with our tax dollars. I suspect that'd be more expensive than Obamacare's method of trying to coerce having insurance.


    Ditto for trying to encourage broader coverage, ie of part time workers, with more employer tax credits.


    []]]

    Medicare/Medicaid pays MUCH lower to hospitals and docs than private insurers so hospitals would lose even more money than they do now if Medicare/Medicaid was expanded. If it wasn't for the help of the Big 3 (TAHP, BCBS, HPHC) in this state, many hospitals would go under. BWH and MGH both lose tens of millions of dollars on Medicaid/Medicare patients. The Big 3 agreed to bump their base rates to help offset the losses. 




    Well, I'd say that's another reason why doing this through Medicaid/Medicare would be a bad idea.


    As it is, my understanding is that the only way hospitals and other providers can survive while taking Medicare/Medicaid patients is by having hire rates for private insurance. Expand those programs, the more the private insurance rates go up.


     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.

    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.

    but, I am sure you will go on a screed or post some picture of dog by products instead of actually consider that approach.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Let's go more free market"? Could you be more vague??? Private insurers ARE the free market. BCBS, HPHC, TAHP, United, Cigna, etc.....are all private insurers...aka...free market

    [/QUOTE]

    We haven't had a free market system for the masses in fifty years.

    most people need to get their insurance via their employers.  The poor get it via the government, as does the military.  The elderly are on Medicare.  All told, it is about 50% of those needing health care were not in the free market prior to Obamacare.  Some small percentage of people bought highly regulated individual plans, most likely catastrophic coverage only.  They operated in a free market. Now, the number is 100% are not in the free market.  That't the net-net of Obamacare.

    a free market system means that everyone is in the same market, and can buy, or not buy, based on their personal needs and wants.  That's about as far from this system and the one that preceded it as you can get.

    [/QUOTE]

    The poor can't afford coverage from private insurers, which is why they get govt assistance. You want soldiers to pay for their own private health insurance? If so we'll need to pay them more.

    Most get insurance through their insurer because of the group rate thingy. When you pool people together the costs to insure go down. If we all got individual plans no one outside of the 1% would be able to afford it. Unless you think it's wise to just get catastrophic coverage. I do not think it wise.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    []]]]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [[[]]]If it's just this one part in question that gets dropped does that mean the entire health care law has to be scrapped? It looks like about 4.7 million would be affected by this issue. [[[]]]

    I doubt it, but that doesn't mean enough damage can't be done. There are a lot of people like-minded with CLC who are bringing these suits (on top of the failed repeal vote efforts). I've heard a whole lot of invective against Obamacare, with a whole lot of nothing offered as an alternative.

     

    That said, 4.7 million is a big chunk of the total amount of new insureds, so it certainly represents a blow to the main goal of the law.

     

    If they end up uninsured rather than going through state exchanges, that's bad allright.

     

    But I continue to be curious about the bigger picture question of what the Obamacare opponents would have us do instead of Obamacare.

     

    We could scrap it and expand Medicaid/Medicare to cover the uninsureds, but then, we're paying for it directly with our tax dollars. I suspect that'd be more expensive than Obamacare's method of trying to coerce having insurance.

     

    Ditto for trying to encourage broader coverage, ie of part time workers, with more employer tax credits.

     

    []]]

    Medicare/Medicaid pays MUCH lower to hospitals and docs than private insurers so hospitals would lose even more money than they do now if Medicare/Medicaid was expanded. If it wasn't for the help of the Big 3 (TAHP, BCBS, HPHC) in this state, many hospitals would go under. BWH and MGH both lose tens of millions of dollars on Medicaid/Medicare patients. The Big 3 agreed to bump their base rates to help offset the losses. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, I'd say that's another reason why doing this through Medicaid/Medicare would be a bad idea.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree it would be a bad idea

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]
    How would you "fix" things?

    Prior to ObamaCare, 80% of Americans were satisfied with their health care plan. There was no crisis.

    Sorry, if Republicans wont propose another massive expensive Government bureaucratic monstrosity to replace the current Government bureaucratic disaster...

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:



     




    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    []


    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....


    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....


    ....how would you fix things?


    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?


    []
    How would you "fix" things?


    I'm not the one saying to repeal Obamacare....


    And I didn't vote for someone who said he would repeal Obamacare and then replace it with.....   


    ....unicorns or something.


    I predict that given likely unending medical advances and increasing numbers of conditions that can be treated, medical costs will not stop growing. The end result, for better or worse, will be single payer with rationing, with a system of private sector health services for people who can afford to pay (and/or insurance covering those 'platinum' services)


    Prior to ObamaCare, 80% of Americans were satisfied with their health care plan. There was no crisis.


    Funny how you ignore all the facts that everyone in both parties agreed on before the 2008 election - that the following amounted to a growing crisis:  60million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future


    Sorry, if Republicans wont propose another massive expensive Government bureaucratic monstrosity to replace the current Government bureaucratic disaster...


    The people you agree with are trying to turn it into a disaster and have been from day 1. It really didn't have to play out this way.




     







     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:


    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.


    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.



    We know that allowing full laissez-faire anything in the private sector creates massive corruption and labor abuse that dwarfs anything you ever whined about in regards to the government.


    But then, who knows what you're trying to say

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if you get your way and Obamacare fails, and we go back to 60 million and growing uninsured, insurers not taking people with pre-existing conditions, insurers dropping sick people, lifetime caps, and premiums growing 10% a year for all foreseeable future....

    ...in other words, 2008, when everybody agreed the American insurance model was breaking down.....

    ....how would you fix things?

     

    Do any politicians you consider conservative enough not to be RINOs have anything to offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    There have been countless proposals to replace Obamacare made by Republicans. Just because you choose to ignore them does not mean that your question

    HOW WOULD YOU FIX THINGS??

    has not already been answered. Why don't you go look it up? Or do you prefer ignorance?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    How to fix it? Let's start by stopping all the efforts by government to fix it.  The government is incapable.

     

    then, let's go more free market, see how that works out.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    We know that allowing full laissez-faire anything in the private sector creates massive corruption and labor abuse that dwarfs anything you ever whined about in regards to the government.

     

    But then, who knows what you're trying to say

    [/QUOTE]

    Debatable, but why do we need to have extremes at either end? 

    The healthcare business virtually government-run. Yeah, they don't own the facilities or employ people but they do just about everything else so there is little difference. Well except we still don't have the complete corruption and incompetence on display by those the manage the VA.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:


    There have been countless proposals to replace Obamacare made by Republicans. Just because you choose to ignore them does not mean that your question


    HOW WOULD YOU FIX THINGS??


    has not already been answered. Why don't you go look it up? Or do you prefer ignorance?



    Why don't they tell me?


    Instead of giving your stock response - that I should go do your research for you - why don't you tell me?


     


     


    Seems to me that the people who make the loudest noises about how bad Obamacare supposedly is are unable to articulate anything specifically wrong with it and are completely void of any ideas on how to replace it.


    All I see is a bunch of fluff words that people think makes their claim stronger: references to socialism, Big Government, regulation, and nanny states.


    At the very least, an Obamacare critic should be able to specifically articulate what is bad and why everyone should agree it is bad. And then, if the critic has no ideas, actually admit that they don't know what the (*&#$ to do about it....


    But they don't, because if they admitted they don't know what the #(*&$ to do about it, they suddenly lose any credibility in saying that Obama was a big bad idiot for having done what he did.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:


    Debatable, but why do we need to have extremes at either end? 


    The healthcare business virtually government-run. Yeah, they don't own the facilities or employ people but they do just about everything else so there is little difference. Well except we still don't have the complete corruption and incompetence on display by those the manage the VA.




    It isn't at the extreme end.


    Single-payer would be one extreme end, while a completely unregulated free-for-all is the other.


     


    Obamacare:


    - imposed a penalty for not being insured, so you can't game the system


    - imposed a layer of minimum coverage requirements that most states already had in place, for insurance bought through exchanges.


    - created exchanges so individuals can get group rate plans (since individual market plans are extremely expensive).


    - banned lifetime caps, dropping people when they get sick, not taking people with pre-existing conditions.


     


    That's no massive revolutionary change, no matter how much people claim it is.


    On top of that we have Medicare/Medicaid for the poor. I trust no one is arguing that poor people shouldn't get medical care, in the richest country on Earth.


    And we have a VA system in the midst of a scandal.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    So, the liberal argument is that ObamaCare is supposedly essential to keep the massive crisis of 40 million uninsured from dying for lack of medical care...but at the same time, it is just a small reform....

    Right.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    So, the liberal argument is that ObamaCare is supposedly essential to keep the massive crisis of 40 million uninsured from dying for lack of medical care...but at the same time, it is just a small reform.... Right.



    Oh, you're on fire today. That's two straw men you've rounded up within mere minutes.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    There have been countless proposals to replace Obamacare made by Republicans. Just because you choose to ignore them does not mean that your question

     

    HOW WOULD YOU FIX THINGS??

     

    has not already been answered. Why don't you go look it up? Or do you prefer ignorance?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    Why don't they tell me?

     

    Instead of giving your stock response - that I should go do your research for you - why don't you tell me?

     

     

     

     

     

    Seems to me that the people who make the loudest noises about how bad Obamacare supposedly is are unable to articulate anything specifically wrong with it and are completely void of any ideas on how to replace it.

     

    All I see is a bunch of fluff words that people think makes their claim stronger: references to socialism, Big Government, regulation, and nanny states.

     

    At the very least, an Obamacare critic should be able to specifically articulate what is bad and why everyone should agree it is bad. And then, if the critic has no ideas, actually admit that they don't know what the (*&#$ to do about it....

     

    But they don't, because if they admitted they don't know what the #(*&$ to do about it, they suddenly lose any credibility in saying that Obama was a big bad idiot for having done what he did.

    [/QUOTE]

    It isn't my research. I am not the one that is claiming something that is false and expecting someone to answer it for me.

    The truth is that if you do not care enough to look it up, well, you don't care so why should anyone bother to do that for you? You prefer to make false claims and remain in ignorance.

    Aside from that, the time for alternatives is not here yet. They passed Obamacare. When it gets ripped to shreds enough then people will start making suggestions for alternatives - which of course you wont pay any attention to.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Federal appeals court panel deals major blow to Obamacare

    Didn't think so.

     

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