Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Clearly the health of the monther should be an exception, and you have to go all the way to Ireland to make your point.  Hey, Obama is in, abortion is pleniful and free, and sometimes even encouraged.

    Let's leave religion out of it, let's just settle on belief, ok?  you beleive one thing, I beleive another.  If you have followed my comments on this subject, I have never injected religion onto the discussion, I have stuck with reason and science.

    [/QUOTE]

    I have stuck with reason and science.

    LOL!

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All I can say is I know of four people, if someone had not stepped in to save A  life. My Daughter being one > I have a > G son> who mostly will give me a GG son!

    Most Women and some men suffer depression from abortion.

    [/QUOTE]


    I hear you... If I agreed with abortion for myself..then the most important person in my world would not be here today. I don't believe in it for myself..but my point is that I don't have the right to force my belief on someone else. I made my choice for myself...I've no right to make the choice for someone else. Also..the point of this post is that there are a hundred scenarios like the one in Ireland . This is why RoeV Wade should stay the law of the land.

     

    Also..with regards to Skeeter's hysterics..Roe V Wade does not allow for partial birth or late term abortion...Roe V Wade leaves abortion restrictions after the first trimester to the states. If you have a problem with a state law..then take it up with the state..not with the entire federal system.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All I can say is I know of four people, if someone had not stepped in to save A  life. My Daughter being one > I have a > G son> who mostly will give me a GG son!

    Most Women and some men suffer depression from abortion.

    [/QUOTE]


    I hear you... If I agreed with abortion for myself..then the most important person in my world would not be here today. I don't believe in it for myself..but my point is that I don't have the right to force my belief on someone else. I made my choice for myself...I've no right to make the choice for someone else. Also..the point of this post is that there are a hundred scenarios like the one in Ireland . This is why RoeV Wade should stay the law of the land.

     

    Also..with regards to Skeeter's hysterics..Roe V Wade does not allow for partial birth or late term abortion...Roe V Wade leaves abortion restrictions after the first trimester to the states. If you have a problem with a state law..then take it up with the state..not with the entire federal system.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hysterics?

    I think the hysterics lie elsewhere.  I'm just asking an honest, uncomfortable (for some)question.

    When do the rights of the baby start?

    Look, abortion is the law of the land.  It is also a sacred tennet of liberal orthodoxy, which means that, if I question it, I am being hysterical. NO dissent, NO other opinions allowed.

    Go figure.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure and the Right likes to pretend they are holier than thou pro lifers, until a GOP rep who is a doctor, cheats on his wife with a patient, knocks up said patient and then despite his strong pro life stance tells the patient to have an abortion.  You really couldn't make this stuff up....

    The point has always been it is not the governments place to tell a women what she can and cannot do with her body. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure and the Right likes to pretend they are holier than thou pro lifers, until a GOP rep who is a doctor, cheats on his wife with a patient, knocks up said patient and then despite his strong pro life stance tells the patient to have an abortion.  You really couldn't make this stuff up....

    The point has always been it is not the governments place to tell a women what she can and cannot do with her body. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again avoiding the question at hand.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure and the Right likes to pretend they are holier than thou pro lifers, until a GOP rep who is a doctor, cheats on his wife with a patient, knocks up said patient and then despite his strong pro life stance tells the patient to have an abortion.  You really couldn't make this stuff up....

    The point has always been it is not the governments place to tell a women what she can and cannot do with her body. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again avoiding the question at hand.

    [/QUOTE]


    The question at hand has been law of the land for 40 years.  I don't care what women I will never meet do with their pregnancies.

    The Left has no interest in avoiding the issue because it is a winning issue for them. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    That's a slippery slope question that those on the left refuse to confront.



    Because it doesn't exist. LOL.

    Roe gave the best answer: We cannot define the point at which something becomes an indepedent human being, but unlike some people we respect a woman's right to control her body. So the best we can do is say that the right to abort ends when the collection of cells growing inside the woman reaches the point where it can survive outside the woman.

     Bible-thumpers give the least american answer out there: I have a little storybook that says my invisible man says that life begins at conception. So that should be the law. YAY SHARIA!

     

     

     

    As for slippery slopes, I love how you folk conveniently ignore the one you're standing on: If the right to life begins at conception, then you're calling a single cell a person. A full human being.

    If you were logical, you would demand homicide investigations of every woman who had a miscarriage. After all, a person died in her care. Right?

     

    Or is your position just a pile of it?

    [/QUOTE]

    This current discussion stems back to skeeter asking a reasonable question; at what time dose an unborn baby have rights?

    I respesct the personal position that life begins at conception but that's not the legal or pragmatic position.

    So at what stage does it deserve protection?

    At implatation to the uterus?

    At 8 weeks brain development, descernable facial features, hand visble

    At 12 weeks not the cutest kid but it sure looks like one

    At 13 weeks baby has unique finger prints

    At 15 wks mother feels movement

     

    The mothers health is always the drving concern.  I'm completely OK with the morning after pill.  Once implanted my discomfort rises.  I'm OK for the first 4 wks, and at 8 weeks I'm seeing a baby, at 12 weeks I think abortion is too late.

    That's how I feel, how I feel is different from my acceptance of the law.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure and the Right likes to pretend they are holier than thou pro lifers, until a GOP rep who is a doctor, cheats on his wife with a patient, knocks up said patient and then despite his strong pro life stance tells the patient to have an abortion.  You really couldn't make this stuff up....

    The point has always been it is not the governments place to tell a women what she can and cannot do with her body. 

    [/QUOTE]


    So, unable to answerthe quetion, you try to throw the blame on mythical "bad republicans".

    Answer the question.  When do the rights of the baby start?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    What is wrong with having a high sense of morality?



    People patting themselves on the back for having a "high sense of morality" are typically some of the least moral people out there....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, some are like that, heck, maybe most.

    So how is this an excuse for being immoral?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    That's a slippery slope question that those on the left refuse to confront.



    Because it doesn't exist. LOL.

    Roe gave the best answer: We cannot define the point at which something becomes an indepedent human being, but unlike some people we respect a woman's right to control her body. So the best we can do is say that the right to abort ends when the collection of cells growing inside the woman reaches the point where it can survive outside the woman.

     Bible-thumpers give the least american answer out there: I have a little storybook that says my invisible man says that life begins at conception. So that should be the law. YAY SHARIA!

     

     

     

    As for slippery slopes, I love how you folk conveniently ignore the one you're standing on: If the right to life begins at conception, then you're calling a single cell a person. A full human being.

    If you were logical, you would demand homicide investigations of every woman who had a miscarriage. After all, a person died in her care. Right?

     

    Or is your position just a pile of it?

    [/QUOTE]

    Roe v. Wade says nothign aboutthe rights of the baby.  When do we as a society recognize the rights of the baby?

    This is not some esoteric religious discussion, but a legal one.  My take is that given the lack of clarity around when a baby has rights, between the goalposts of conception and birth, I would think that as a legal matter we need to choose one of the goalposts. Any point in between is a muddled decision based on philosophical choices. Agree?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm in favor of small government and therefore think the government should tell women what they must do their pregancies.


    Sincerely,

    The comical hypocrisy of the FoxNews Crowd

    [/QUOTE]

    at what point does a baby have rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    At 18 they get the right to vote.  Maybe that was the flaw in the GOP's strategy.  They chose to marginalize minorities, young people and women because they knew their Pro-Life stance would help them carry the Fetus vote by a wide margin.  The problem of course is that unborn children are a traditionally unreliable and low turnout demographic.  Back to the drawing board RNC!

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you are for abortion up to the age of 18? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again as I said earlier the left can't have this rational slippery scope discussion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure and the Right likes to pretend they are holier than thou pro lifers, until a GOP rep who is a doctor, cheats on his wife with a patient, knocks up said patient and then despite his strong pro life stance tells the patient to have an abortion.  You really couldn't make this stuff up....

    The point has always been it is not the governments place to tell a women what she can and cannot do with her body. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again avoiding the question at hand.

    [/QUOTE]


    The question at hand has been law of the land for 40 years.  I don't care what women I will never meet do with their pregnancies.

    The Left has no interest in avoiding the issue because it is a winning issue for them. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You may not have an interest in an individual's preganacy, which is precisely why the law does, or must.  Roe v. Wade addresses the right of the mother not the baby.  The left likes this answer all squishy so it can create another depencency group of voters.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    [/QUOTE]


    You may not have an interest in an individual's preganacy, which is precisely why the law does, or must.  Roe v. Wade addresses the right of the mother not the baby.  The left likes this answer all squishy so it can create another depencency group of voters.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are preetty "squishy" about the concept of individual rights.  You oppose the government involving itself in the economy, but want to employ its full power in matters of personal morality.  The country is hopelessly split on this issue and yet you are more than willing to impose your "truth" on others and prosecute those that don't follow your will.  That actually is not vague at all that is quite oppressive.

    And the issue for the developing fetus is one of viability.  But even then if the mother's life is at risk the law favors the actual life over the potential life.  

    Don't like abortion?  Don't have one.  That is not squishy at all.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    You may not have an interest in an individual's preganacy, which is precisely why the law does, or must.  Roe v. Wade addresses the right of the mother not the baby.  The left likes this answer all squishy so it can create another depencency group of voters.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are preetty "squishy" about the concept of individual rights.  You oppose the government involving itself in the economy, but want to employ its full power in matters of personal morality.  The country is hopelessly split on this issue and yet you are more than willing to impose your "truth" on others and prosecute those that don't follow your will.  That actually is not vague at all that is quite oppressive.

    And the issue for the developing fetus is one of viability.  But even then if the mother's life is at risk the law favors the actual life over the potential life.  

    Don't like abortion?  Don't have one.  That is not squishy at all.

    [/QUOTE]


    So, you admit that the baby has indivdidual rights?  And if do, when?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Roe v. Wade addresses the right of the mother not the baby.



    Try reading it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, snap!

     

    Such a nice bumper sticker you have there.

     

    I like the part where Roe v. Wade recognizes thatthe baby has rights, but it is OK to kill it anyways.

     

    Is that what you are referring to?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wonder why skeeter wants all women who suffer miscarriages investigated for homicide. I mean.....to him, a zygote is a human person.

    [/QUOTE]


    You sure get nasty when you can't answer the question.

    Well, here's your opportunity to educate me.  You indicate that the rights of the baby are addressed in Roe v. Wade.  Tell me what it says.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wonder why skeeter wants all women who suffer miscarriages investigated for homicide. I mean.....to him, a zygote is a human person.

    [/QUOTE]


    What is an acorn but the fondation of a tree?

     

    I feel sorry for you that you need to hide your gilt in words of science, as if they justify your lack of clear thinking about hte morality of this issue.  But, that aisde,

    When does a baby aquire their rights?

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Fifty Shades of Grey...another conversation about abortion

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wonder why skeeter wants all women who suffer miscarriages investigated for homicide. I mean.....to him, a zygote is a human person.

    [/QUOTE]


    What is an acorn but the fondation of a tree?

     

    I feel sorry for you that you need to hide your gilt in words of science, as if they justify your lack of clear thinking about hte morality of this issue.  But, that aisde,

    When does a baby aquire their rights?

    [/QUOTE]

    Biblically speaking it's at birth.

    [/QUOTE



    Man, you are like a stalker.

    I'm talking legal, as in the law.  no one seems to be able to square the circle.

     

    Besides, you are wrong.  look it up.

    God knew you before you wer in your mothers womb.

    But that might not apply to you, as you were likely hatched from some alien pod  that washed up on a beach.

     
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