FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    Speaker Boehner, argubly the worst speaker in the history of the House of  Represensatives, without even control over his own caucus, is very likely on his way out, along with the Tea Party.

    Then he will have something to really cry about for once.

    This man, along with the GOP leadership...and I use the word "leadership" loosely", is responsible for many things, including the now government shutdown.

    One need only look back at the fate of Former Speaker Newt Gingrich. 

    After in came to power as Speaker, he and the GOP controlled House forced two government shutdowns totalling 28 days.

    He was eventually forced to resign as Speaker.

    On top of the current government shutdown, almost no major pieces of legislation have been able to be passed since Boehner took over the Speakership.

    This is in sharp contrast to the several pieces of major legislation that were passed with Obama as President but before Boehner came to power as Speaker.

    He may not lose his seat in the House, but, he most certainly deserves to lose the position of Speakership.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    He does deserve to lose the speakership, but not for the reasons that you've specified. Leadership means standing up for your principles no matter how much pushback or how much lousy press you get. Boehner has failed to lead and should be replaced.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    What legislation was passed before Boehner became speaker?

    He has been a lousy speaker for sure. Almost as bad in the leadership category as Obama. Nice tan though.

    Otherwise, I think you are delusional. After the government "shutdown" when Gingrich was speaker, the Republicans gained Senate seats and only lost a few in the House, still retaining the majority. 

    The fight to get rid of Obamacare has only just begun.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

    b i n g o  !!!!!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    He does deserve to lose the speakership, but not for the reasons that you've specified. Leadership means standing up for your principles no matter how much pushback or how much lousy press you get. Boehner has failed to lead and should be replaced.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.



    SB,

    You are right. As I posted, Boenner does not even have control over his own caucus.

    IMO, he is the single biggest reason the Tea Party has been allowed to co-op the House of Representatives.

    He has shown an astounding lack of leadership during his tenure. Boehner should either resign the Speakership or be replaced by the GOP.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     



    skeeter,

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

    b i n g o  !!!!!


     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill-806,

    See reply post to skeeter above.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

    What legislation was passed before Boehner became speaker?

    He has been a lousy speaker for sure. Almost as bad in the leadership category as Obama. Nice tan though.

    Otherwise, I think you are delusional. After the government "shutdown" when Gingrich was speaker, the Republicans gained Senate seats and only lost a few in the House, still retaining the majority. 

    The fight to get rid of Obamacare has only just begun.

     

     



    Hansoribrother,

     

    Maybe you were sleeping during Obama's 1st term. If so, below is a table of SEVEN major pieces of legislation that were passed BEFORE Boehner became Speaker as well as their popularity as gaged by Harris Polls.

     

    "Overall do you think it is good or bad that each of these bills was passed?"

    Base: American adults who are familiar with each bill

     

    Good

    Bad

    %

    %

    The 9/11 First Responders health care bill

    88

    12

    The bill to extend Bush-era tax cuts and unemployment benefits

    73

    27

    The repeal of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell law that will allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military

    68

    32

    The ratification of the Start 2 Nuclear Arms Control treaty

    67

    33

    The Financial Regulation bill

    63

    37

    The Stimulus Package of increased government spending and tax cuts

    51

    49

    The Health Care Reform bill

    51

    49

    Note: Percentages may not add to 100 due to rounding.

     http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/686/Default.aspx

     

    As for Gingrich, the two government shutdowns he orchestrated were the beginning of the end of his Speakership.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     



    skeeter,

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

    b i n g o  !!!!!


     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill-806,

     

    See reply post to skeeter above.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill:  See my post above.  Andijen is wrong on the facts.

    Though she is right that Bohner is a loser.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    On top of the current government shutdown, almost no major pieces of legislation have been able to be passed since Boehner took over the Speakership.

    This is in sharp contrast to the several pieces of major legislation that were passed with Obama as President but before Boehner came to power as Speaker.

    Well,, Boehner does have that going for him, keeping Government expansion down is a plus.


    That highlights the differences between Government-worshipping liberals, and limited Government conservatives.

    You assume "major legislation" must be enacted and continuously growing Government forever is 'progress' and a great thing.

    Conservatives dont think Government is infallible, and "major legislation" usually means  "major" loss of freedom...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    argubly the worst speaker in the history of the House of  Represensatives

    How quickly they forget the perpetually surprised looking former speaker Nancy "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" Pelosi.

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    On top of the current government shutdown, almost no major pieces of legislation have been able to be passed since Boehner took over the Speakership.

    This is in sharp contrast to the several pieces of major legislation that were passed with Obama as President but before Boehner came to power as Speaker.

     

     

    Well,, Boehner does have that going for him, keeping Government expansion down is a plus.


    That highlights the differences between Government-worshipping liberals, and limited Government conservatives.

    You assume "major legislation" must be enacted and continuously growing Government forever is 'progress' and a great thing.

    Conservatives dont think Government is infallible, and "major legislation" usually means  "major" loss of freedom...

    [/QUOTE]

    CLC,

    In the post where I listed 7 major pieces of legislation, do you have a problem with ALL of them? Seriously?

    Just looking at them, do you not agree that at least some of them were a very good idea, beginning with the 9/11 1st Responders Bill , the Extention of the George Bush Tax Cuts as well as the Repeal of Don't ask Don't Tell?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUTOE]argubly the worst speaker in the history of the House of  Represensatives

     

    How quickly they forget the perpetually surprised looking former speaker Nancy "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" Pelosi.

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    SB,

    IMO, Nancy Pelosi was a very good Speaker. 

    That perpetually surprised look you mention in your post I believe is the result of cosmetic work. After all , the woman is in her 70s. Her face would not look like that if she had not had some work done.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    IMO, Nancy Pelosi was a very good Speaker.

    "Are you serious? Are you serious? Are you serious?"


    Sorry, just couldn't resist quoting the former speaker's position on the Constitution.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    It is laughable, the Title of laws passed by the Government, which in almost all instances hide the real purpose of the Legislation: more useless bureaucratic spending and Government coercion, which does not further the goal of the Title. The devil of Government expansion is in the details of these monstrosities...

    "The 9/11 First Responders health care bill"

    Now who can be against that?

    The Financial Regulation bill

    Who is against that?

    The Affordable Care Actl

    Who is against Affordable Care?

    Did you forget the "Violence Against Women" Act?

    How about the "Free Ice Cream and Puppies Act"?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]IMO, Nancy Pelosi was a very good Speaker.

     

    "Are you serious? Are you serious? Are you serious?"


    Sorry, just couldn't resist quoting the former speaker's position on the Constitution.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    SB,

    No problem.

    In my world, "Are you serious?" will always belong to John McEnroe during his many, many tantrums on the tennis court.

    Though this has not been my best thread, at least it has not devolved into posters challenging each other's taste in music. See world politics at app. 120 posts into the thread started by the BDC editor yesterday regarding the shutdown.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    It is laughable, the Title of laws passed by the Government, which in almost all instances hide the real purpose of the Legislation: more useless bureaucratic spending and Government coercion, which does not further the goal of the Title. The devil of Government expansion is in the details of these monstrosities...

    "The 9/11 First Responders health care bill"

    Now who can be against that?

    The Financial Regulation bill

    Who is against that?

    The Affordable Care Actl

    Who is against Affordable Care?

    Did you forget the "Violence Against Women" Act?

    How about the "Free Ice Cream and Puppies Act"?



    CLC,

    Actually, I am for Free Ice Cream and Puppies as long as the ice cream has no calories and the puppies come house trained.

    I know you have to see what is really in the legislation, but come on, if you want to really debate that is inappropriate government expansion then that is what you have to do.

    Then you will probably agree with the gist of it...esp. most of those 7...and point out things that were thrown in there you do not think belong.

    Do you really think our country would be better if NONE of those ACTS were passed into law?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    There is a difference between controling spending (which is a topic worthy of debate when it is focused on specific issues and not simply a mindless insistence on one or the other in all cases) and in fulfilling Constitutional duties that help keep the country running smoothly both in the public and the private sector.

    There is also a difference between applying American Constitutional, democractic princliples of voting (whether for representatives or on the floors of either house of Congress) and holding America hostage to the demands of a minority who are not able to get their way by a simple vote.

    You may not like your political opponents... you may not recognize that America needs voters from all sides untied in order to remove the rule of legalized (and illegal) bribery from our government (in that we should all be solidly together)... but you should still be able to understand the difference between voting and ransom demands.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

    [/QUOTE]

    The most important distinctions here are 

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

     

     



    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

     

     



    The most important distinctions here are 

     

     

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

     



    slomag,

     

    Great post about the major distinctions here.

    Further, for those who revere Reagan, Reagan's head of the Office of Chief Counsel, Douglas Kmiec, wrote an article that concludes Reagan would have backed Obama. That the government shutdown is in defiance of the law.

    Below is a portion of that article.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-kmiec/reagan-would-back-obama-g_b_4015563.html


     The provisions that promote federalist experimentation and state discretion to his liking and he would likely be intrigued by the prospect of separating health access from employment. Reagan would see the virtue and possibilities for wider economic opportunity in not encouraging older people to stay in jobs just to keep insurance. Reagan unquestionably would have argued against the expansion of the public sector, but if his argument lost, he would not defiantly keep making it as if the law had not been enacted.

    Most assuredly, Ronald Reagan would concur with President Obama that partisanship cannot be allowed to jeopardize the financial standing of United States nor should the Republican Party see existing law's implementation as anything other than their constitutional duty.

    The full implementation of the law is not some favor that can be given the pretense of being offered in a budget negotiation. To make enacted law a pawn in such tawdry dealings is to hold the entire country hostage to one narrow minded conception of what it means to govern in place of what has actually been democratically approved. The far right in Congress is always quick to mention the word impeachment. Seldom is the presidential action so described worthy of their exaggeration; but what the far right is proposing here is indeed high crime or misdemeanor for it is an abandonment of the Constitution's very structure.

    Would Ronald Reagan be embarrassed that his party has decided that laws enacted over the Republicans opposed to it will be left without funds, or in some cases, without taking action on the President's nominees to do the work the new law envisions? You bet, but he would also be outraged, for while he often quipped he was glad "we didn't get all the government we paid for," he also held sacred that "'We the people' declared that government is created by the people for their own convenience. Government has no power except those voluntarily granted to it by we the people.

    Those ready to push government over the ledge into default unless laws approved by "we the people" are repealed, govern neither by democracy nor respect for the constitutional principles of Ronald Reagan, but by the very arrogance of power the Gipper devoted his life to refuting.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The most important distinctions here are 

     

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's some pretty fine slicing you've done there.

    You first argue they never happened, then the argument is that well,they happened, but they aren't the same, then you argue that well, they really didn't matter.  The arguments were not over discretionary spending, at least not all the time, unless oyu are going to tell me defense is discretionary, Aid to families is discretionary, and so on.  Basically, you are talking out your backside, mainly because you want to defend why Obama is giving the one finger salute to t he people of this country.

     

    You want to make this a 1-3 day shutdown that is of little consequence?  Then ask Obama to be like Reagan and make the trip to the House to negotiate this as Reagan did.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

     

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The most important distinctions here are 

     

     

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's some pretty fine slicing you've done there.

     

    You first argue they never happened, then the argument is that well,they happened, but they aren't the same, then you argue that well, they really didn't matter.  The arguments were not over discretionary spending, at least not all the time, unless oyu are going to tell me defense is discretionary, Aid to families is discretionary, and so on.  Basically, you are talking out your backside, mainly because you want to defend why Obama is giving the one finger salute to t he people of this country.

     

    You want to make this a 1-3 day shutdown that is of little consequence?  Then ask Obama to be like Reagan and make the trip to the House to negotiate this as Reagan did.

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

    Obama is behaving like Reagan. And continues to. As the above article written by Reagan's head of the office of chief Counsel stated, in this situation Reagan would have backed Obama. Below is the last paragraph of that article.

    "Those ready to push government over the ledge into default unless laws approved by "we the people" are repealed, govern neither by democracy nor respect for the constitutional principles of Ronald Reagan, but by the very arrogance of power the Gipper devoted his life to refuting."

     

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