FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    He does deserve to lose the speakership, but not for the reasons that you've specified. Leadership means standing up for your principles no matter how much pushback or how much lousy press you get. Boehner has failed to lead and should be replaced.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    What legislation was passed before Boehner became speaker?

    He has been a lousy speaker for sure. Almost as bad in the leadership category as Obama. Nice tan though.

    Otherwise, I think you are delusional. After the government "shutdown" when Gingrich was speaker, the Republicans gained Senate seats and only lost a few in the House, still retaining the majority. 

    The fight to get rid of Obamacare has only just begun.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

    b i n g o  !!!!!


     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     



    skeeter,

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

    b i n g o  !!!!!


     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill-806,

     

    See reply post to skeeter above.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill:  See my post above.  Andijen is wrong on the facts.

    Though she is right that Bohner is a loser.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    On top of the current government shutdown, almost no major pieces of legislation have been able to be passed since Boehner took over the Speakership.

    This is in sharp contrast to the several pieces of major legislation that were passed with Obama as President but before Boehner came to power as Speaker.

    Well,, Boehner does have that going for him, keeping Government expansion down is a plus.


    That highlights the differences between Government-worshipping liberals, and limited Government conservatives.

    You assume "major legislation" must be enacted and continuously growing Government forever is 'progress' and a great thing.

    Conservatives dont think Government is infallible, and "major legislation" usually means  "major" loss of freedom...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    argubly the worst speaker in the history of the House of  Represensatives

    How quickly they forget the perpetually surprised looking former speaker Nancy "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" Pelosi.

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    IMO, Nancy Pelosi was a very good Speaker.

    "Are you serious? Are you serious? Are you serious?"


    Sorry, just couldn't resist quoting the former speaker's position on the Constitution.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    It is laughable, the Title of laws passed by the Government, which in almost all instances hide the real purpose of the Legislation: more useless bureaucratic spending and Government coercion, which does not further the goal of the Title. The devil of Government expansion is in the details of these monstrosities...

    "The 9/11 First Responders health care bill"

    Now who can be against that?

    The Financial Regulation bill

    Who is against that?

    The Affordable Care Actl

    Who is against Affordable Care?

    Did you forget the "Violence Against Women" Act?

    How about the "Free Ice Cream and Puppies Act"?

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    There is a difference between controling spending (which is a topic worthy of debate when it is focused on specific issues and not simply a mindless insistence on one or the other in all cases) and in fulfilling Constitutional duties that help keep the country running smoothly both in the public and the private sector.

    There is also a difference between applying American Constitutional, democractic princliples of voting (whether for representatives or on the floors of either house of Congress) and holding America hostage to the demands of a minority who are not able to get their way by a simple vote.

    You may not like your political opponents... you may not recognize that America needs voters from all sides untied in order to remove the rule of legalized (and illegal) bribery from our government (in that we should all be solidly together)... but you should still be able to understand the difference between voting and ransom demands.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

    [/QUOTE]

    The most important distinctions here are 

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: FORMER SPEAKER BOEHNER

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to andiejen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to andiejen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Tip O'Neill, which andijen would likey identify as one of the great speakers, shut down the government nearly every year that Reagan was President.

    Reagan went to O'Neil each and every time to negotiate.

    Does that make O'Neill arguably one of the worst speakers of all time?  He used the very tool you talk about, in the same way, nearly every year.

     

     

     

     

     



    skeeter,

     

     

     

     

    The government was not shut down nearly every year Reagan was President.

    That aside, Boehner's real failing is his lack of any real leadership as Speaker.

    If you are honest with yourself, Tip O'Neil was one of the strongest Speakers the House ever had...the polar opposite of Boehner.

    So perhaps, the real reason Boehner has to go for everyone's sake is his incredible weakness as a Speaker.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, yes it was. I count 7 times that the government shutdown under Reagan, mostly as Democrats tried to defund or partially fund things it didn't want the President to do, though one time was just Democrat incompetence. Here's the list:

     

     

     

    November 20 to November 23, 1981 (2 days): President Ronald Reagan vowed to make drastic budget cuts, which the House claimed did not cut defense spending enough and did not raise pay for civil servants either. Reagan vetoed all proposals; the shutdown commenced. 

    September 30 to October 2, 1982 (1 day): There was really no reason for the government to shut down. Congress just didn’t complete the budget in time. There may have been one too many cocktail parties that year.

    December 17 to December 21, 1982 (3 days): President Reagan had another shutdown during his administration. House and Senate negotiators wanted to dedicate $5.4 billion and $1.2 billion in public works spending to create jobs. The House also opposed funding A MX missile program, which was a priority of Reagan’s at the time. In the end, the House and Senate caved in on their plans for jobs and Reagan made a few compromises and signed a bill that ended the shutdown.

    November 10 to November 14, 1983 (3 days): House Democrats passed an amendment that added $1 billon to educational spending while cutting foreign aid below Reagan’s favored limit. Democrats in the House ended up reducing funding for education but kept the cuts to foreign aid. The compromise was seen as a win for both parties.

    September 30 to October 3, 1984  (2 days): The Democratic controlled House linked the a series of amendments to stop crime, a water projects package and a civil rights measure to the spending bill. A three day spending extension was passed while the parties negotiated.

    October 3 to October 5, 1984 (1 day): Well, the three day extension clearly didn’t work out and the government was back to square one. The water projects and the civil rights measure were removed from the spending bill. A comprise was reached on the crime proposal.

    October 16 to October 18, 1986 (1 day): The shutdown was a result of several disagreements between Regan and the House including a ban for companies creating subsidiaries, requiring a portion of the goods and labor used in oil rigs to be from America and one that expands Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Democrats in the House compromised a few of their demands and passed a measure that reopened the government.

    December 18 to December 20, 1987 (1 day): The dispute sparked when Reagan and Democrats could not agree on funding for the Nicaraguan “Contra” militants. A deal was worked out where nonlethal aid would be provided to the Contras.

     

    I see lot's of similarities....do you?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    skeeter,

     

     

    Okay. You have documented 1-3 day shutdowns during the Reagan Era. Do you really think that is what we are looking at right now?

    Further, the issues at hand do not even come close to the magnitude of Obamacare.

    Another difference is Tip O'Neil was Speaker...not Boehner and the House was not divided as it is now.

    O'Neil by many accounts hated Reagan, but, first, he knew how to contol his Hoiuse, and second, his personal feelings never stopped him from doing his job and negotiating with Reagan and the Republicans.

     

    Other than the above, I think the situation is just about identical.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The most important distinctions here are 

     

    1) Many of these shutdowns were not intentional, and some were the result of a bill passed by Congress but vetoed by Reagan

    2) Nobody was ever actually affected, because either the situation was resolved before shutdown measures went into effect, or they passed temporary spending extensions to keep the government moving.  

    and most importantly

    3) They were battles over discretionary spending - not mandatory spending.  Right now, a small fraction of a minority party is trying to overturn a vote from two sessions ago and they are doing so by government shutdown.  That's never happened before.  Ever.  That's why the public is so disgusted by Republicans right now - they are proving more than ever they are the take my ball and go home and I don't care what happens to the country or economy party.  This is their swan song.  Good riddance GOP.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's some pretty fine slicing you've done there.

    You first argue they never happened, then the argument is that well,they happened, but they aren't the same, then you argue that well, they really didn't matter.  The arguments were not over discretionary spending, at least not all the time, unless oyu are going to tell me defense is discretionary, Aid to families is discretionary, and so on.  Basically, you are talking out your backside, mainly because you want to defend why Obama is giving the one finger salute to t he people of this country.

     

    You want to make this a 1-3 day shutdown that is of little consequence?  Then ask Obama to be like Reagan and make the trip to the House to negotiate this as Reagan did.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share