George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    "There’s no limiting principle in the principle they’re invoking, that is majorities should rule all the time. What this means is if in the spring of 2017 there’s a Republican president, which there could be, the Republicans still hold the House, and they have 51 Senators, they can repeal ObamaCare with 51 votes. And I'm not sure the people who did this today have thought this through."

    No, they certainly haven’t.

    If these Democrats and their media minions don’t realize that the change invoked by the Democrats – which is currently limited to presidential appointments with the exception of Supreme Court justices – will expand over time, they’re kidding themselves.

    What Democrats with seemingly the full support of the liberal media have done is permanently changed the rules of the Senate allowing the majority to do whatever it wants.

    Although this might lead to positive things for Republicans at some time in the future – such as the repeal of ObamaCare – this is a sad day for our nation when 52 Senators decide to rewrite how that Chamber works.

    Shame on them and shame on all those in the media who think this is a good thing.



    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/21/george-will-filibuster-change-could-lead-repeal-obamacare#ixzz2lL4LNIJa
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    "There’s no limiting principle in the principle they’re invoking, that is majorities should rule all the time. What this means is if in the spring of 2017 there’s a Republican president, which there could be, the Republicans still hold the House, and they have 51 Senators, they can repeal ObamaCare with 51 votes. And I'm not sure the people who did this today have thought this through."

    No, they certainly haven’t.

    If these Democrats and their media minions don’t realize that the change invoked by the Democrats – which is currently limited to presidential appointments with the exception of Supreme Court justices – will expand over time, they’re kidding themselves.

    What Democrats with seemingly the full support of the liberal media have done is permanently changed the rules of the Senate allowing the majority to do whatever it wants.

    Although this might lead to positive things for Republicans at some time in the future – such as the repeal of ObamaCare – this is a sad day for our nation when 52 Senators decide to rewrite how that Chamber works.

    Shame on them and shame on all those in the media who think this is a good thing.



    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/21/george-will-filibuster-change-could-lead-repeal-obamacare#ixzz2lL4LNIJa



    CLC, 

    I read both the article and a few of the comments posted below the article.

    Not to be cynical, but maybe Reid et. al. did think this all the way through. If things go the GOP's way, and leadership of the Senate switches to them, there is nothing to stop the Democrats from changing the rule back again before they are officially back in the minority.

    Not that Reid would play politics with judicial appointments...oh wait...is not that what triggered them to pull the so-called nuclear option in the first place. Playing politics and blocking judicial appointments simply because they were nominated by Obama.

    As one poster said just look to NJ. That is just what they did there. Remenber how Lautenberg was gotton in?

    I am not condoning such actions...just commenting on the possibility, CLC.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    "There’s no limiting principle in the principle they’re invoking, that is majorities should rule all the time. What this means is if in the spring of 2017 there’s a Republican president, which there could be, the Republicans still hold the House, and they have 51 Senators, they can repeal ObamaCare with 51 votes. And I'm not sure the people who did this today have thought this through."

    No, they certainly haven’t.

    If these Democrats and their media minions don’t realize that the change invoked by the Democrats – which is currently limited to presidential appointments with the exception of Supreme Court justices – will expand over time, they’re kidding themselves.

    What Democrats with seemingly the full support of the liberal media have done is permanently changed the rules of the Senate allowing the majority to do whatever it wants.

    Although this might lead to positive things for Republicans at some time in the future – such as the repeal of ObamaCare – this is a sad day for our nation when 52 Senators decide to rewrite how that Chamber works.

    Shame on them and shame on all those in the media who think this is a good thing.



    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/21/george-will-filibuster-change-could-lead-repeal-obamacare#ixzz2lL4LNIJa



    CLC, 

     

    I read both the article and a few of the comments posted below the article.

    Not to be cynical, but maybe Reid et. al. did think this all the way through. If things go the GOP's way, and leadership of the Senate switches to them, there is nothing to stop the Democrats from changing the rule back again before they are officially back in the minority.

    Not that Reid would play politics with judicial appointments...oh wait...is not that what triggered them to pull the so-called nuclear option in the first place. Playing politics and blocking judicial appointments simply because they were nominated by Obama.

    As one poster said just look to NJ. That is just what they did there. Remenber how Lautenberg was gotton in?

    I am not condoning such actions...just commenting on the possibility, CLC.



    I thought the same thing.  But, I think the calculation is that if the dems lose the Senate, they will leave it in place, and browbeat the Republicans over it. the press will gladly shove the microphone in McConnels face and ask why he doesn't support the constitution or the principles laid out in Feb Paper 62 (I think it is 62).

    As far as Reid and Obama:  Coordinated effort by bad leaders.  They are out to force this progressive agenda on people by changing the rules.

    This is the moral equivalent of the government shutdown, only more effective.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtarget13. Show movingtarget13's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    "As far as Reid and Obama:  Coordinated effort by bad leaders.  They are out to force this progressive agenda on people by changing the rules."

     

    Good point.  And, as I listen to them, they have both said "will of the American people due to the results of the 2012 election"............Huh?

    The electorate is split pretty evenly .........51.7 - 47.9     Where do they get off changing 200 year old procedure under the guise of "will of Americans", when neither one of the two fools know what that "will" is? 

    This congress has confirmed 215 and only denied 2.  These incompetent idiots need to shut up and do their jobs.

     


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    Harry Reid & Nancy Pelosi .... How they have lasted this long is beyound the beyound !!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.

     



    How pathetic. Do you have the mental capacity to realize that both sides are partisan? For example Obamacare passed without a single Republican vote. That isn't partisan?

     

    And how partisan of you to think that just because someone doesn't agree with y ou they are "hyper-partisan"??

    Geez man, its politics. That is the way the game is played. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    This change only allows for more partisan rule and then more vindictive behavior by the children in washington!

    They ALL need to be FIRED!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

     

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.

     



    How pathetic. Do you have the mental capacity to realize that both sides are partisan? For example Obamacare passed without a single Republican vote. That isn't partisan?

     

    And how partisan of you to think that just because someone doesn't agree with y ou they are "hyper-partisan"??

    Geez man, its politics. That is the way the game is played. 

     

     

     



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtarget13. Show movingtarget13's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.




    And I`m sure you felt this way in 2004/2005/2006 right?  Same exact thing was happening when the Reps were in power.  The Reps considered this option and then cooler heads prevailed.  Or should I say, more mature, disciplined, adults, decided it would be really bad for the country.

    Again..............215 confirmed, only 2 denied.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    So, they backdoored a way to repeal obamacare? interesting. It could happen in 2015, with a delay in 2014. we may all be saved except those that have already been devastated by the debacle.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    Well what do you know; ACA is delayed until after 2014!

    LMCAO!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    Actually I read that it was limited to judicial nominations, but filibusters are still live for laws. 

    If it isn't limited to laws, then I suppose they did it to themselves, and we will have proof that the Rs have no plan after repealing Obamacare.



    Or they will have a plan that actually works and that they dont have to lie about to get passed!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Or they will have a plan that actually works




    What is their plan?



    Really? Again??

    It has been laid out many times!

    geez!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:


    Or they will have a plan that actually works

     


    What is their plan?

     

    The best plan is to stop allowing Government to "plan". Repeal Obamacare!

    Just as a physician's first duty is to "do no harm", the first duty of Government is not to destroy our freedom and free market health care system.
    Top-down Government intervention in the market , and bureaucratic solutions, don't work.

    If that is doing nothing, then I am in favor of doing nothing.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    So, no plan then? Thanks.




    They refuse to acknowledge that 40 million people without health insurance is even a problem, so why would you expect them to try to solve it?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    So, no plan then? Thanks.




    They refuse to acknowledge that 40 million people without health insurance is even a problem, so why would you expect them to try to solve it?



    Who said it wasn't a problem?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtarget13. Show movingtarget13's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    So, no plan then? Thanks.




    They refuse to acknowledge that 40 million people without health insurance is even a problem, so why would you expect them to try to solve it?




    But having 50-100 million without insurance is OK?  5 million in the last 5 weeks?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.



    Really? The Demcrats go hyper partisan with the nuke option, and you have the audacity to blame the Republicans?

    The truth is that the Democrats can't shove through their agenda. Now they can.  That's why this change happened.

    i mean, it was a bad idea according to Obama when the Republicans were in power.  Now, it is a good idea?

    hypocrite.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    So, no plan then? Thanks.



    Just because you are obstinate and blind and unwilling, doesn't mean there isn't a plan.  Here it is.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/johncgoodman/2013/08/10/is-there-a-republican-alternative-to-obamacare-n1660684/page/full

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    So, no plan then? Thanks.




    They refuse to acknowledge that 40 million people without health insurance is even a problem, so why would you expect them to try to solve it?



    Who said it wasn't a problem?



    That unemployed number bounces around a bit.  I heard a democrat recently say 50 million were uninsured.

    what you find out when you did into the number is that about half of it is transitory, between plans.  The rest is illegals and young people.

    bottom line, is is an insignificant number that need insurance and can't get it. 5% of the population or there abouts.

    Hey, didn't Obama just say that the 5% losing their health insurance duse to Obamacare was an insignificant number? huh? I guess it matters if you are in his target demo.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    Unironically, ending the fillibuster would allow the Chief to fire some people too without being concerned the GOP will stonewall nominees just to keep the agency in limbo...

    ...like they've done so many times before.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to movingtarget13's comment:

    "As far as Reid and Obama:  Coordinated effort by bad leaders.  They are out to force this progressive agenda on people by changing the rules."

     

    Good point.  And, as I listen to them, they have both said "will of the American people due to the results of the 2012 election"............Huh?

    The electorate is split pretty evenly .........51.7 - 47.9     Where do they get off changing 200 year old procedure under the guise of "will of Americans", when neither one of the two fools know what that "will" is? 

    This congress has confirmed 215 and only denied 2.  These incompetent idiots need to shut up and do their jobs.

     


     



    movingtarget,

    In the last three weeks alone, Republicans have blocked up-or-down votes on three highly qualified nominees to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, considered by many to be the second highest court in the land. Republicans have blocked four of President Obama’s five nominees to the D.C. Circuit, whereas Democrats approved four of President Bush’s six nominees to this important court. Today, 25 percent of the D.C. Circuit Court is vacant. There isn’t a single legitimate objection to the qualifications of any of these nominees. Yet Republicans refused to give them an up-or-down vote – a simple yes-or-no vote. Republicans simply don’t want President Obama to make any appointments at all to this vital court.

    Further, only 23 district court nominees have been filibustered in the entire history of this country.  Twenty of them were nominated by President Obama. With one out of every 10 federal judgeships vacant, millions of Americans who rely on courts that are overworked and understaffed are being denied the justice they rightly deserve. More than half the nation’s population lives in a part of the country that’s been declared a “judicial emergency.”

    So, even if your overall all numbers are correct, which of course include lower court appointments, 10% of federal judgeships stand vacant in our country. This means justice is being delayed to a large part of our citizens. This is why Reid and the othe 51 senators who voted to change the rule did so.

    There is a principle called "justice delayed is justice denied". Perhaps now the bottleneck of cases will slowly get moving again, and the millions of citizens who have been victims of the GOP's misuse of the filibuster will finally get the justice they deserve.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    The filibuster rule was written by "gentlemen of the Senate" for use among "gentlemen" with some very specific assumptions about how "gentlemen" behave. This concept of how gentlemen behave was an elaborate set of assumptions, very specific and demanding. Some things just are not said. Some things just are not done. Discretion and concern for fairness were essential.

     

    The Republicans stopped acting like gentlemen. Their cut throat, hyper-partisan behavior is just not done among gentlemen, at least not so openly. They could not be dealt with using gentlemen's rules, because they by calculation had decided not to be gentlemen in that old fashioned way. Partisan power was more important to them.

     

    Gentlemen's Rules had to go the way of gentlemen.



    Really? The Demcrats go hyper partisan with the nuke option, and you have the audacity to blame the Republicans?

    The truth is that the Democrats can't shove through their agenda. Now they can.  That's why this change happened.

    i mean, it was a bad idea according to Obama when the Republicans were in power.  Now, it is a good idea?

    hypocrite.



    skeeter,

    No, Obama really is not. You need to look at the history of approval to see why it got to the point where a rule change was justified. 

    The article at the below link does a great job comparing and contrasting the judicial confirmations Obama has received with our nearest preceding presidents.

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/senate-gops-unprecedented-obstruction-five-charts

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtarget13. Show movingtarget13's posts

    Re: George Will: Filibuster Change Could Lead to Outright Repeal of ObamaCare with 51 Senate votes

    In response to andiejen's comment:

    In response to movingtarget13's comment:

    "As far as Reid and Obama:  Coordinated effort by bad leaders.  They are out to force this progressive agenda on people by changing the rules."

     

    Good point.  And, as I listen to them, they have both said "will of the American people due to the results of the 2012 election"............Huh?

    The electorate is split pretty evenly .........51.7 - 47.9     Where do they get off changing 200 year old procedure under the guise of "will of Americans", when neither one of the two fools know what that "will" is? 

    This congress has confirmed 215 and only denied 2.  These incompetent idiots need to shut up and do their jobs.

     


     



    movingtarget,

    In the last three weeks alone, Republicans have blocked up-or-down votes on three highly qualified nominees to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, considered by many to be the second highest court in the land. Republicans have blocked four of President Obama’s five nominees to the D.C. Circuit, whereas Democrats approved four of President Bush’s six nominees to this important court. Today, 25 percent of the D.C. Circuit Court is vacant. There isn’t a single legitimate objection to the qualifications of any of these nominees. Yet Republicans refused to give them an up-or-down vote – a simple yes-or-no vote. Republicans simply don’t want President Obama to make any appointments at all to this vital court.

    Further, only 23 district court nominees have been filibustered in the entire history of this country.  Twenty of them were nominated by President Obama. With one out of every 10 federal judgeships vacant, millions of Americans who rely on courts that are overworked and understaffed are being denied the justice they rightly deserve. More than half the nation’s population lives in a part of the country that’s been declared a “judicial emergency.”

    So, even if your overall all numbers are correct, which of course include lower court appointments, 10% of federal judgeships stand vacant in our country. This means justice is being delayed to a large part of our citizens. This is why Reid and the othe 51 senators who voted to change the rule did so.

    There is a principle called "justice delayed is justice denied". Perhaps now the bottleneck of cases will slowly get moving again, and the millions of citizens who have been victims of the GOP's misuse of the filibuster will finally get the justice they deserve.

     




    215 approved      2 denied     FACT

    Where were you during the Bush admin?  Clinton?  Bush-41?    Obama is no different.  Again..........215 approved      2 denied.

     

     

     
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