"Green" energy in Europe, a disastrous failure

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re:

    Of course "green energy" looks expensive if we pretend the hidden costs of fossil/nuclear power don't exist.

    A solar plant won't produce smoke that gives you cancer. A solar plant won't produce deadly waste that lasts tens of thousands of years. A solar plant won't radiate thousands of people if it's hit with a tsunami. A solar plant won't cause global warming.

    Etc etc etc.

    (Yeah I know. The political deniers are smarter than 98% of sciensts in the field, who are also in fact conspiratorial lizard men trying to give democrats power so they can destroy america; also, phrenology was wrong).

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re:

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    Of course "green energy" looks expensive if we pretend the hidden costs of fossil/nuclear power don't exist.

    A solar plant won't produce smoke that gives you cancer. A solar plant won't produce deadly waste that lasts tens of thousands of years. A solar plant won't radiate thousands of people if it's hit with a tsunami. A solar plant won't cause global warming.

    Etc etc etc.

    You forgot one. 

    A solar plant wont produce nearly enough energy needed at anywhere near a reasonable cost. It is a failure.

     




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    A solar plant wont produce nearly enough energy needed at anywhere near a reasonable cost. It is a failure.

     

    Define "reasonable cost".

    Millions of others have decided the costs are not only reasonable, but preferred.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    A solar plant wont produce nearly enough energy needed at anywhere near a reasonable cost. It is a failure.

     

    Define "reasonable cost".

    Millions of others have decided the costs are not only reasonable, but preferred.

     



    Millions havent decided, they were coerced by dictatorial Governments. Like in Germany.

     Here are some highlights of Germany's failed solar initiative:

    • Despite the massive investment of $130 Billion, solar power accounts for only about 0.3% of Germany’s total energy.
    • Germany is paying about $1,000 per ton of CO2 reduced. The current CO2 price in Europe is $8.
    • Defenders of Germany’s solar subsidies also claim that they have helped to create “green jobs”. In China where the panels are made.
    • German citizens now pay the second-highest price for electricity in the developed world.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    A solar plant wont produce nearly enough energy needed at anywhere near a reasonable cost. It is a failure.

     

    Define "reasonable cost".

    Millions of others have decided the costs are not only reasonable, but preferred.

     



    Millions havent decided, they were coerced by dictatorial Governments. Like in Germany.

     Here are some highlights of Germany's failed solar initiative:

    • Despite the massive investment of $130 Billion, solar power accounts for only about 0.3% of Germany’s total energy.
    • Germany is paying about $1,000 per ton of CO2 reduced. The current CO2 price in Europe is $8.
    • Defenders of Germany’s solar subsidies also claim that they have helped to create “green jobs”. In China where the panels are made.
    • German citizens now pay the second-highest price for electricity in the developed world.

    Source, please.


    Germany is a democracy, not a dictatorship (run by a conservative govt, no less).  Germans voted for this, and Europeans widely approve.

    Reduced emissions are only one goal of renewables.

    Thanks for ignoring my previous points, though.

    You also confused ".03%" with "3.0%" with a total goal of 25%, but who's counting when you're on the ideological rag, right...?

    Solar generation capacity has ramped up so quickly in Germany that it's now selling the excess energy load to neighbor countries and making back some of their money.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    Of course "green energy" looks expensive if we pretend the hidden costs of fossil/nuclear power don't exist.

    A solar plant won't produce smoke that gives you cancer. A solar plant won't produce deadly waste that lasts tens of thousands of years. A solar plant won't radiate thousands of people if it's hit with a tsunami. A solar plant won't cause global warming.

    Etc etc etc.

    You forgot one. 

    A solar plant wont produce nearly enough energy needed at anywhere near a reasonable cost. It is a failure.

     






    You don't need a solar plant.

    We get electricity off a grid. The grid has all sorts of energy inputs. Sources can come and go as long as there is enough to meet demand. Solar can contribute from multiple sources like panels on homes, schools and other buildings.

    Cost is another matter altogether.. Solar is heavily subsidized of course but basically everything in energy has some kind of subsidy. If the Democrats like it it is called an investment. If they don't it is called a loophole or something like that.

    You can switch your demand for electricity to solar/wind in a matter of minutes on line. You can actualy get it for less than the price charged by NSTAR or National Grid here in MA. 

    Renewable energy is  agood idea that needs improvement.There are a number of reasons that it should be supported by government to a reasonable degree. But somehow I don't think giving millions to your political friends so they can launder it into your campaigns is the way to go. 

    There's also no reason to limit carbon emissions beyond wht we do already to keep the air clean and conserve energy/save money. Carbon taxes are a job killer. Let the rest of the world do that idiocy if they want so we can bring jobs here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re:

    Here's the thing:  For ACC and other eco nuts:  they don't mind pushing more people into poverty if they can get lower co2 emmissions.

    That is the story in Germany, and is the energy story that the U.S. is flirting with.

    The solution in the near term is fracking, period.

    All these green energy solutions are at best for rural farms, unique situations.  That is their lot for a few generations to come.  Meanwhile, work on improving them, looking for other green approaches. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re:

    As far as I am concerned the more alternative sources we have for energy, the better. That way we might be able to avoid poking around in the MIddle East to protect access to their oil.

    Fracking has done a lot to help the cause of energy independence. Plus low energy costs here are brining jobs back from China, etc. It does need to be watched and improved to minimize environmental damage.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re:

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    As far as I am concerned the more alternative sources we have for energy, the better. That way we might be able to avoid poking around in the MIddle East to protect access to their oil.

    Fracking has done a lot to help the cause of energy independence. Plus low energy costs here are brining jobs back from China, etc. It does need to be watched and improved to minimize environmental damage.



    Agreed.  The environment is important and needs to be monitored.

    The progressives, however, have this view of renewable energy which is simply about as realistic as the flux capacitor allowing for time travel.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re:

    Renewables are the keys to the developing nations of the world.

    The world's largest solar plant is located in the middle east - also home of the world's largest oil deposits - and more are coming online as fast as they can be built.

    Why?  Why build renewables on a huge scale when oil is so plentiful and so close??

    A: Because the sun is infinitely more plentiful (in the me), needs no tankers, pipelines or destructive mining operations.  Renewable sources are the future of energy supply in emerging nations and markets.  

     

     
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