Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

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    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to macnh1's comment:


    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...



    Illegal guns were once legal.  Then they were sold and sold again, or passed to a family member who sells it.  And remember, a minimally maintained handgun can last a 100 years.  Theres a lot of personal responsibility in the life cycle of a gun.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    Unfortunately you can't legislate stupidity. Just as important as a background check would be a common sense test. You fail you don't get a gun. Of course I realize that isn't possible.

    For the life of me I don't get people who leave loaded guns out in the open ESPECIALLY where children are present. 

     
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    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

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    the states with the most gun laws have the least gun violence.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Sure...like Illinois and DC.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In terms of gun deaths per capita (that is per 100,000 people ) Illinois is tied with Alabama and New Jersey at 2.8 per 100K.  Higher on the list are states like Louisiana, Arizona, Mississippi, Arkansas, Texas, and other states with very lax gun control laws.   That said, it should be noted that the states with the lowest rate of gun murders also have some of the most lax laws concerning gun ownership, and for the most part are all states that are mostly rural and northern (Vermont, NH, Maine, Oregon, Iowa, Hawaii, Utah, Minnesota, Idaho, among others).  

     

     

     

     

     

     

    With the exception of DC and Maryland all of the states with the most gun deaths per capita (and also very lax gun laws) are all in the south.  Southern states represent 8 ot the top 10 states with the most gun murders in the country.  I

     

     

     

     

     

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    Don't forget CA with some of the most strict gun laws being at 3.4, higher than Illinois, Alabama and New Jersey

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    California is high on the list, despite having very restrictive laws.  That said, this survery offers very little for policy making in the US.  In some cases we can observe a correlation in some states that few gun laws lead to few murders.  In states with very restrictive gun laws there are high rates of gun related murders.  And even beyond that we can observe states with lax gun laws with rates of gun related deaths that the highest in the nation.  Other factors are at play, so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation. 

     

     

     

     

    I agree. Which is why I laugh when people say more gun laws will reduce gun violence. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think laws on a state level are very effective, but you can't deny the difference handgun restrictions have made in Australia.  They still have a pretty high gun ownership rate (around 15%) but they are mostly shotguns (for dingoes stealing babies, obviously).  The gun murder per capita rate is next to nothing.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not so sure it's the restrictions. 

     

    Australia's gun related deaths per 100k is 1.06, with guns per 100 residents at 15.

    Luxenborg is also around 15 per 100 guns owned with gun related deaths at 2.02

    Mexico is also at 15 per 100 guns owned yet gun related deaths much higher at 11.7

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Germany at 30.3 guns owned (higher than Australia) yet only 1.24 gun related deaths

     

    It's not just restrictions. It's also culture that plays a big part. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Australia's rate was nearly 3 times higher in 1996, when the restrictions were enacted.  You can't get much more apples-to-apples than that.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to slomag's comment:

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    the states with the most gun laws have the least gun violence.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Sure...like Illinois and DC.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In terms of gun deaths per capita (that is per 100,000 people ) Illinois is tied with Alabama and New Jersey at 2.8 per 100K.  Higher on the list are states like Louisiana, Arizona, Mississippi, Arkansas, Texas, and other states with very lax gun control laws.   That said, it should be noted that the states with the lowest rate of gun murders also have some of the most lax laws concerning gun ownership, and for the most part are all states that are mostly rural and northern (Vermont, NH, Maine, Oregon, Iowa, Hawaii, Utah, Minnesota, Idaho, among others).  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    With the exception of DC and Maryland all of the states with the most gun deaths per capita (and also very lax gun laws) are all in the south.  Southern states represent 8 ot the top 10 states with the most gun murders in the country.  I

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    Don't forget CA with some of the most strict gun laws being at 3.4, higher than Illinois, Alabama and New Jersey

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    California is high on the list, despite having very restrictive laws.  That said, this survery offers very little for policy making in the US.  In some cases we can observe a correlation in some states that few gun laws lead to few murders.  In states with very restrictive gun laws there are high rates of gun related murders.  And even beyond that we can observe states with lax gun laws with rates of gun related deaths that the highest in the nation.  Other factors are at play, so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation. 

     

     

     

     

     

    I agree. Which is why I laugh when people say more gun laws will reduce gun violence. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think laws on a state level are very effective, but you can't deny the difference handgun restrictions have made in Australia.  They still have a pretty high gun ownership rate (around 15%) but they are mostly shotguns (for dingoes stealing babies, obviously).  The gun murder per capita rate is next to nothing.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not so sure it's the restrictions. 

     

     

    Australia's gun related deaths per 100k is 1.06, with guns per 100 residents at 15.

    Luxenborg is also around 15 per 100 guns owned with gun related deaths at 2.02

    Mexico is also at 15 per 100 guns owned yet gun related deaths much higher at 11.7

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Germany at 30.3 guns owned (higher than Australia) yet only 1.24 gun related deaths

     

    It's not just restrictions. It's also culture that plays a big part. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Australia's rate was nearly 3 times higher in 1996, when the restrictions were enacted.  You can't get much more apples-to-apples than that.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's great...

    Australia's at 15 guns owned per 100 residents with gun related deaths per 100k at 1.06

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Seems it's not JUST about restrictions.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

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    the states with the most gun laws have the least gun violence.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Sure...like Illinois and DC.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In terms of gun deaths per capita (that is per 100,000 people ) Illinois is tied with Alabama and New Jersey at 2.8 per 100K.  Higher on the list are states like Louisiana, Arizona, Mississippi, Arkansas, Texas, and other states with very lax gun control laws.   That said, it should be noted that the states with the lowest rate of gun murders also have some of the most lax laws concerning gun ownership, and for the most part are all states that are mostly rural and northern (Vermont, NH, Maine, Oregon, Iowa, Hawaii, Utah, Minnesota, Idaho, among others).  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    With the exception of DC and Maryland all of the states with the most gun deaths per capita (and also very lax gun laws) are all in the south.  Southern states represent 8 ot the top 10 states with the most gun murders in the country.  I

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't forget CA with some of the most strict gun laws being at 3.4, higher than Illinois, Alabama and New Jersey

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    California is high on the list, despite having very restrictive laws.  That said, this survery offers very little for policy making in the US.  In some cases we can observe a correlation in some states that few gun laws lead to few murders.  In states with very restrictive gun laws there are high rates of gun related murders.  And even beyond that we can observe states with lax gun laws with rates of gun related deaths that the highest in the nation.  Other factors are at play, so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I agree. Which is why I laugh when people say more gun laws will reduce gun violence. 

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think laws on a state level are very effective, but you can't deny the difference handgun restrictions have made in Australia.  They still have a pretty high gun ownership rate (around 15%) but they are mostly shotguns (for dingoes stealing babies, obviously).  The gun murder per capita rate is next to nothing.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not so sure it's the restrictions. 

     

     

     

    Australia's gun related deaths per 100k is 1.06, with guns per 100 residents at 15.

    Luxenborg is also around 15 per 100 guns owned with gun related deaths at 2.02

    Mexico is also at 15 per 100 guns owned yet gun related deaths much higher at 11.7

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Germany at 30.3 guns owned (higher than Australia) yet only 1.24 gun related deaths

     

    It's not just restrictions. It's also culture that plays a big part. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Australia's rate was nearly 3 times higher in 1996, when the restrictions were enacted.  You can't get much more apples-to-apples than that.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's great...

     

    Australia's at 15 guns owned per 100 residents with gun related deaths per 100k at 1.06

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Seems it's not JUST about restrictions.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cyprus is heavily restricted.  Only shotguns are allowed - no handguns or rifles can be owned by private citizens.

    I agree it's not the only factor, but there's no denying restrictions are effective when it's possible to enforce them, and when governments choose to do so.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:

    [QUOTE]
    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...

    [QUOTE] 


    Like the the lack of personal responsibility of gun owning idiots who leave loaded weapons where children can access them and kill themselves or others?

    The D.C.I. determined that Hettinger had been shot by a 10-year-old inside the house who had been handling a loaded handgun. The gun belonged to another family member.

     

    Or the lack or personal responsibility of gun rights zealots who give 5 yr olds a gun as a gift.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10032522/Five-year-old-child-kills-sister-with-gun-he-received-as-a-gift.html



    Gun owners that allow this should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to slomag

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Cyprus is heavily restricted.  Only shotguns are allowed - no handguns or rifles can be owned by private citizens.

     

    I agree it's not the only factor, but there's no denying restrictions are effective when it's possible to enforce them, and when governments choose to do so.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course if you remove all guns then there will be less gun violence but there will be more violence using other weapons! to act violently with a gun or another weapon is a behavior choice and eliminating the weapon will not stop the behavior!

    There are things much deadlier than guns!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

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    the states with the most gun laws have the least gun violence.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Sure...like Illinois and DC.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In terms of gun deaths per capita (that is per 100,000 people ) Illinois is tied with Alabama and New Jersey at 2.8 per 100K.  Higher on the list are states like Louisiana, Arizona, Mississippi, Arkansas, Texas, and other states with very lax gun control laws.   That said, it should be noted that the states with the lowest rate of gun murders also have some of the most lax laws concerning gun ownership, and for the most part are all states that are mostly rural and northern (Vermont, NH, Maine, Oregon, Iowa, Hawaii, Utah, Minnesota, Idaho, among others).  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    With the exception of DC and Maryland all of the states with the most gun deaths per capita (and also very lax gun laws) are all in the south.  Southern states represent 8 ot the top 10 states with the most gun murders in the country.  I

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't forget CA with some of the most strict gun laws being at 3.4, higher than Illinois, Alabama and New Jersey

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    California is high on the list, despite having very restrictive laws.  That said, this survery offers very little for policy making in the US.  In some cases we can observe a correlation in some states that few gun laws lead to few murders.  In states with very restrictive gun laws there are high rates of gun related murders.  And even beyond that we can observe states with lax gun laws with rates of gun related deaths that the highest in the nation.  Other factors are at play, so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    so we can only conclude what we already know, correlation doesn't equal causation. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I agree. Which is why I laugh when people say more gun laws will reduce gun violence. 

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think laws on a state level are very effective, but you can't deny the difference handgun restrictions have made in Australia.  They still have a pretty high gun ownership rate (around 15%) but they are mostly shotguns (for dingoes stealing babies, obviously).  The gun murder per capita rate is next to nothing.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not so sure it's the restrictions. 

     

     

     

     

    Australia's gun related deaths per 100k is 1.06, with guns per 100 residents at 15.

    Luxenborg is also around 15 per 100 guns owned with gun related deaths at 2.02

    Mexico is also at 15 per 100 guns owned yet gun related deaths much higher at 11.7

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Germany at 30.3 guns owned (higher than Australia) yet only 1.24 gun related deaths

     

    It's not just restrictions. It's also culture that plays a big part. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Australia's rate was nearly 3 times higher in 1996, when the restrictions were enacted.  You can't get much more apples-to-apples than that.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's great...

     

     

    Australia's at 15 guns owned per 100 residents with gun related deaths per 100k at 1.06

    Cyprus at 36.1 guns owned (much higher than Australia) but lower gun related deaths at 0.96

    Seems it's not JUST about restrictions.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Cyprus is heavily restricted.  Only shotguns are allowed - no handguns or rifles can be owned by private citizens.

     

    I agree it's not the only factor, but there's no denying restrictions are effective when it's possible to enforce them, and when governments choose to do so.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]
    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...

     

     

     

     

     




    Like the the lack of personal responsibility of gun owning idiots who leave loaded weapons where children can access them and kill themselves or others?

    The D.C.I. determined that Hettinger had been shot by a 10-year-old inside the house who had been handling a loaded handgun. The gun belonged to another family member.

     

    Or the lack or personal responsibility of gun rights zealots who give 5 yr olds a gun as a gift.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10032522/Five-year-old-child-kills-sister-with-gun-he-received-as-a-gift.html

    [/QUOTE]

    Can't stop people from being idiots in a free society, but we can stop bad people, like this:

     

    August 15, 2013

    Wife protects husband from robbers at restaurant, KPRC, Houston, Texas 08/08/13

    A woman and her family were dining at a Denny’s in Houston, Texas when a group of six men armed with guns attempted to rob her husband while she was in the restroom. When the woman exited the restroom and spotted the hold-up, she drew a pistol and exchanged gunfire with the criminals, causing them to flee. Following the incident, a local media outlet spoke with the victim’s brother who noted that his brother’s wife is a Right-to-Carry permit holder. The brother went on to add, “Self-defense saved my brother’s life.” 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:


    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...

     

     

     

     

     




    Like the the lack of personal responsibility of gun owning idiots who leave loaded weapons where children can access them and kill themselves or others?

    The D.C.I. determined that Hettinger had been shot by a 10-year-old inside the house who had been handling a loaded handgun. The gun belonged to another family member.

     

    Or the lack or personal responsibility of gun rights zealots who give 5 yr olds a gun as a gift.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10032522/Five-year-old-child-kills-sister-with-gun-he-received-as-a-gift.html




    absolutley agree...gun owners who are irresponsible are to blame just as much as a guy who has 5 kids with four women and leaves them all in poverty....personal responsibility and behavior......for the record...3600 kids drown accidentally in the US each year 360 kids die from accidental gun shots.....watching your kids around water is as important as locking up guns.....responsible behavior...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]
    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    Like the the lack of personal responsibility of gun owning idiots who leave loaded weapons where children can access them and kill themselves or others?

    The D.C.I. determined that Hettinger had been shot by a 10-year-old inside the house who had been handling a loaded handgun. The gun belonged to another family member.

     

    Or the lack or personal responsibility of gun rights zealots who give 5 yr olds a gun as a gift.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10032522/Five-year-old-child-kills-sister-with-gun-he-received-as-a-gift.html

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can't stop people from being idiots in a free society, but we can stop bad people, like this:

     

     

    August 15, 2013

    Wife protects husband from robbers at restaurant, KPRC, Houston, Texas 08/08/13

    A woman and her family were dining at a Denny’s in Houston, Texas when a group of six men armed with guns attempted to rob her husband while she was in the restroom. When the woman exited the restroom and spotted the hold-up, she drew a pistol and exchanged gunfire with the criminals, causing them to flee. Following the incident, a local media outlet spoke with the victim’s brother who noted that his brother’s wife is a Right-to-Carry permit holder. The brother went on to add, “Self-defense saved my brother’s life.” 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, they are alive ... but they are still at a Denny's in Houston.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     



    They can be, but statistically they are not.  In 2005, 75% of firearm homicides in the US were committed with handguns, and 5% with shotguns.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     

     



    They can be, but statistically they are not.  In 2005, 75% of firearm homicides in the US were committed with handguns, and 5% with shotguns.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought we were talking about Cyprus? 

    Of course handguns would be used more than shotguns when handguns are available....as they are in the US. But since we were talking about Cyprus and only shotguns are available then that is what would be used. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     

     

     



    They can be, but statistically they are not.  In 2005, 75% of firearm homicides in the US were committed with handguns, and 5% with shotguns.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought we were talking about Cyprus? 

     

    Of course handguns would be used more than shotguns when handguns are available....as they are in the US. But since we were talking about Cyprus and only shotguns are available then that is what would be used. 

    [/QUOTE]

    But you can't look at Cyprus and say it's a cultural thing - shotgun violence isn't a significant issue anywhere in the world.  The far more logical conclusion is that the restrictions are working in Cyprus, as they have in Australia, Japan, Singapore, and anywhere where restrictions exist, are enforceable and are enforced.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     

     

     

     



    They can be, but statistically they are not.  In 2005, 75% of firearm homicides in the US were committed with handguns, and 5% with shotguns.  

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought we were talking about Cyprus? 

     

     

    Of course handguns would be used more than shotguns when handguns are available....as they are in the US. But since we were talking about Cyprus and only shotguns are available then that is what would be used. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    But you can't look at Cyprus and say it's a cultural thing - shotgun violence isn't a significant issue anywhere in the world.  The far more logical conclusion is that the restrictions are working in Cyprus, as they have in Australia, Japan, Singapore, and anywhere where restrictions exist, are enforceable and are enforced.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It is a cultural thing ESPECIALLY in places like Japan where there is a culture of respect. Respect for elders and family is HUGE. That trickles to others outside of the family. We don't have that here. We are a nation of by and large self-centered a55holes. It's me, me, me in this country for the most part. 

    And if it was JUST about restrictions then why does CA have a gun related death rate higher than MANY states that have hardly any restrictions? 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to macnh1's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]
    it depends on who lives in each of these countries....liberals hate admitting that our biggest problem is the behavior of people not guns or anything else...........behavior, choices and personal responsibility....that's all it is...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    Like the the lack of personal responsibility of gun owning idiots who leave loaded weapons where children can access them and kill themselves or others?

    The D.C.I. determined that Hettinger had been shot by a 10-year-old inside the house who had been handling a loaded handgun. The gun belonged to another family member.

     

    Or the lack or personal responsibility of gun rights zealots who give 5 yr olds a gun as a gift.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10032522/Five-year-old-child-kills-sister-with-gun-he-received-as-a-gift.html

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can't stop people from being idiots in a free society, but we can stop bad people, like this:

     

     

     

    August 15, 2013

    Wife protects husband from robbers at restaurant, KPRC, Houston, Texas 08/08/13

    A woman and her family were dining at a Denny’s in Houston, Texas when a group of six men armed with guns attempted to rob her husband while she was in the restroom. When the woman exited the restroom and spotted the hold-up, she drew a pistol and exchanged gunfire with the criminals, causing them to flee. Following the incident, a local media outlet spoke with the victim’s brother who noted that his brother’s wife is a Right-to-Carry permit holder. The brother went on to add, “Self-defense saved my brother’s life.” 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, they are alive ... but they are still at a Denny's in Houston.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't go dissing Denny's.  good breakfasts.

    here are some people who, fortunately, will get to go to Denny's this weekend, if they so choose,because they were armed.

    August 1, 2013

    Right-to-Carry permit holder defends himself and friend from violent attack, The Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cleveland, Ohio July 29, 2013

    Timothy Peak and a female companion were getting inside a car in his driveway in Cleveland, Ohio when a pair of armed and masked men confronted them. After one of the criminals pistol-whipped Peak, the homeowner and Right-to-Carry permit holder retrieved a handgun from his car and fired at his attacker multiple times, killing him. The deceased criminal’s accomplice managed to escape the scene with Peak’s companion’s purse. Following the incident, Cleveland Councilman Mike Polensek showed support for Peak’s actions, stating “As far as I’m concerned, [the criminal] got exactly what he deserved… lead poisoning.” Polensek went on to say of the homeowner, “If he hadn’t had that gun, we’d be reading about him in a two paragraph story in the paper as another innocent vi

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

     

    Shotguns can be used to kill too. 

     

     

     

     

     



    They can be, but statistically they are not.  In 2005, 75% of firearm homicides in the US were committed with handguns, and 5% with shotguns.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought we were talking about Cyprus? 

     

     

     

    Of course handguns would be used more than shotguns when handguns are available....as they are in the US. But since we were talking about Cyprus and only shotguns are available then that is what would be used. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    But you can't look at Cyprus and say it's a cultural thing - shotgun violence isn't a significant issue anywhere in the world.  The far more logical conclusion is that the restrictions are working in Cyprus, as they have in Australia, Japan, Singapore, and anywhere where restrictions exist, are enforceable and are enforced.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It is a cultural thing ESPECIALLY in places like Japan where there is a culture of respect. Respect for elders and family is HUGE. That trickles to others outside of the family. We don't have that here. We are a nation of by and large self-centered a55holes. It's me, me, me in this country for the most part. 

     

    And if it was JUST about restrictions then why does CA have a gun related death rate higher than MANY states that have hardly any restrictions? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, maybe we're both right - culture certainly has a role in shaping legislation.  But I don't think you're going to find a country, regardless of culture, with strict handgun restrictions, enforced, but with high gun homicide rates.

    CA is a state, and cannot police its borders.  I would wager the gun violence is primarily committed with illegally obtained firearms.  If you moved NJ to border AZ, NV & Mexico, it would have similar statistics.  

     

     

     
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