Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    All the more reason why every man, woman, and child in the country should be insured from birth to death.

    If everyone is covered, then perhaps they will understand how their behavior not only impacts their long=term health but also the premium they pay to live an unhealthy, destructive lifestyle.

    Likewise, conditions which are truly genetic/hereditary in nature can be mitigated early on to prevent much larger bills - to both health and wallet -  in the future.

    This requires a generational shift in attitudes and education, so it will not happen over night, next year, or even in the next 5-10 years, but it must happen whether we want it to or not.

    Ironically or not, we've been through this before with previous, equally pernicious paradigms.  "Those who choose to forget the past...", et al..

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Less reason why they should be "insured", if that is what you want to call it, from birth to death.  You will have eliminated the one thing that tends to get through to people, hitting them in the pocketbook.

     

    Look, Obamacare, the way it is set up, essentially says, no matter if you have insurance, no matter if you have a pre-existing condition, no matter if you are even a citizen, we will pay for all your healthcare needs.

    That is just plain stupid in the real world, and is not insurance. It is government forcing other people to pay your bills.

    [/QUOTE]

    None of that is true.

    These are private insurance policies underwritten by private insurance companies according to guidelines already in place for medicare coverage.

    Raise a person's premiums enough, and they'll wake up...like you say, hit them in the, ahem, "pocketbook".

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

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    In theory, I might agree with you.

     

    However, in practice, it doesn't work because some conditions - including obesity, diabetes, etc. - tend to be concentrated in poorer communities which have less coverage and lower quality health care as a whole.

    It may 'tend' to but there are millions of middle class and even rich people who are obese and therfore have aliments due to obesity. 

    Reform has been structured to incentivize healthy behavior and penalize unhealthy behavior.  This is a sea change in the way that policies are underwritten and premiums adjusted.

    Is this true for group employer insurance? How if, for a group there is one set of rates do they penalize for unhealthy behaviors? And how do insurers know of said unhealthy behaviors? How will an insurer know that someone started smoking? Or that someone stopped working out? 

    Education about health is one thing. (ketchup is a vegetable? HFCP is corn?)  But several recent studies have shown that people don't understand how health insurance works.  To borrow a phrase, they have not understood how "they have a skin in the game".

    How health insurance works is not rocket science. If people don't know it's because they don't want to know. It's like those people who signed on for 5 yr interest only adjustable mortgages. They clearly didn't take the time to understand what would happen when the 5 years ended and the interest rate jumped up. People are fri99in lazy

    This has already started.  As I've said before for example, smokers are and will be surcharged just like bad drivers are.  Positive gains in health and lifestyle choices will be rewarded.

    Again, how is this done on group employer health insurance? How could an insurer know so and so smokes?

    Likewise, doctors and hospitals that fail to diagnose and treat their patients properly will suffer hits to their reputations and bottom lines.  All stages of the health care system will be made accountable or reap what they sow.

    This isn't anything new. If your doctor or hospital misdiagnosed you in the past wouldn't you have switched your doctor/hospital? I know I would have. 

     

     

     

     




     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, but middle class and rich people can pay for better insurance, ergo treatment.  Poor people cannot, so they don't get treated, and they get sicker more often in greater numbers.  

     

    Well sure they can and probably do pay for "better" insurance. But better insurance doesn't mean there will be treatment. Again, there is a vast amount of obese people who are middle class and rich (the one who can afford better coverage). Point being that all the coverage in the world doesn't mean someone will actually use it. Even if they do use it, as in going to doctors for annual checkup. It doesn't mean they'll listen to doctors advice. If that were true there'd be very, very few people who are obese. 

    For group insurance, it's simple; they just penalize the whole group.  Everyone signs a health statement in order to get insurance.  Lying on that statement is a fireable offense...at least at every company I've worked for.  Again, in theory, I agree that some people can 'game the system' by lying about smoking.  But in practice, people are terrified of losing their jobs.

    I've worked for four different companies and have never had to fill out a health statement that asked if I smoked. 

    It's a bit elitist to assume that everyone has the same educational opportunities, reads the same magazines, watches the same shows, follows the news, etc.  The truth is that food is largely cultural and people usually do what they've always done until forced to change.

    It's elitist to assume everyone has eyes and can see the same magazines I see at checkout counter? It's elitist to assume people have the ability to read the tv guide and see there are shows like The Doctors, Dr. Oz, Biggest Loser, Extreme Weight Loss, most of which these shows are on the major networks that come with basic cable? Hell, Oprah used to do MANY shows on health. She was watched by MILLIONS. Sorry I made such an elitist assumption. Who knew watching ABC, NBC, or CBS was so elitist.

    And I submit, too, that many overeating issues are psychological in nature, whether caused by stress, abuse, or plain mental illness.  This does not make them victims, per se, but psych issues also need to be treated in order to be overcome.  And while I agree about the therapeutic benefits of exercise, for many it's just not that easy.

    Sorry, but I'm not one who tolerates excuses. I don't use them in my own life and won't tolerate them from anyone else. Overeating is an excuse. We all have the abilty to make changes. You just have to WANT to make the change. 

    I understand your objections, and some of your concerns are valid, but what's the alternative?  The status quo is clearly not working.  Something's gotta give....

    Not sure how we get people to stop being so lazy. In fact, I don't think we ever will. We become lazier and lazier as time goes on. Each generation is lazier than the last. I fear it's only going to get worse. Remember when you were a kid? Bet you played out side everyday. During summers I bet you had breakfast then went out and played till lunch. Had lunch then went right back outside to play some more till dinner. Then after dinner outside again till streetlights came on. Sound familiar? That doesn't happen now, or at least if it does it's the exception to the rule. Kids play on computer or video games unless it's a scheduled soccer game or baseball game. Then right back inside. It's sad. 

    I see it in the kids I coach. Been coaching for about 12 years. The kids who are in shape are the exception. Majority of kids range from flabby no muscle tone to obese. We have kids who can barely do 5 REAL pushups. Meaning straight body, chest to floor pushups. We have kids with 20-25% bodyfat. We pretty much have to force these kids to lift weights. My high school team never had to be told to lift. It's what you did. Play a sport, you lifted weights. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, I understand your rank pessimism.  Nobody said it would be easy or fun.  But it must happen sooner or later.

    As for the kids, it always starts at home.  The parents deserve the blame, and now they're going to bear the costs as well.  (As a coach, I would only assume that you have these kids running laps, stretching, etc.  You are indeed part of the puzzle.)  I agree, it's sad, but it's no excuse for doing nothing.

    Dismissing stress and psych issues is myopic, at best, and insensitve, at worst.  However, I find more repellent the bald assertions and lies that try to blame the government, of all things, for the drastic rise in health care costs.  The govt is legally doing everything it can in the middle of a rapidly aging, ballooning population.

    The obesity epidemic (an operative word in this debate, btw) is really nothing compared to tens of millions of adults going into their 60s and 70s with an uncertain future of health care costs.  And again, this doesn't include the millions of working poor who have no decent care whatsoever.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UHJbKZHy3U0/ULENyY3q1bI/AAAAAAAAM9k/oKFnSeQnaGY/s400/evolution-of-man-apes-to-fat-slops.jpg

     

     

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n0dxOLX_mnY/TXFAEWbW5SI/AAAAAAAAD2I/qACPbL21vtc/s320/fat-david%255B1%255D.jpg

     

    http://scottsutton.net/wp-content/uploads/largest-man-in-the-world-in-1903.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    I realize that I'm in an extreme minority with this opinion but here goes:

    Not only is the government not part of the solution they are actively part of the problem in many ways. Most recently in their refusal to make sure GMO foods are labeled as such and with the push to make most nutritional supplements available only via prescription.

    If you want to be healthy you need to take charge of your own health and do the research. The standard American diet is causing us to be massively inflammatory and unhealthy. Start by taking sugar, wheat, most grains, processed dairy, processed foods, and fast foods out of your diet.

    Eat foods that are low in toxins and high in goods fats (grass fed butter, avocados,) good proteins (grass fed meats, wild caught fish,) and veggies and you'll go a very long way towards fixing your blood pressure, cholesterol, and energy issues.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

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    Yes, being overweight is a problem, for the person being overweight.

    No, it is not a problem for government to solve.

     

    But, I have a question:  do you think up these talking points on your own, or are you part of the talking points machine?

    Somehow, I think you going to find the worlds fattest man in 1903 all by yourself a bit of a stretch.

     

     



    Who said it was a problem for govt to solve? All WDYWN did was point out what a fat fcuk of a nation we are. That ain't a talking point...that's reality

     

     

     



    And, why dod he point it out?

    My guess is this is what came up in the talking point rotation.

    Don't be naive.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe same reason I do...it's true. We are a lazy fat nation. The costs associated with obesity are driving up our health care costs. That's a fact. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you are fat, it is driving up your health costs, not mine.

     

     

     

     

     

    With government sponsored/determined coverage, I am forced to fund your problem, which is completely in your control.

    So, as a result, I now need to force you to stop eating so much, and government is the tool, probably against your will, and for sure in violation of your right to privacy.

    This, my friend, is the problem with getting government so invovled in health care.

     

     

     

     



    No, it's driving all of our costs up. If you have people on your employer plan that have obesity then they are driving up the costs for everyone on the plan. Anytime a group of people are pooled together, like for example employer health insurance from any private insurer, the sicker people can drive up the costs for everyone else.

     

     

     

     

    That's how group insurance works. 

     

     

     

     



    Then it is not insurance, it is income re-distribution, from those who aren't fat (in this example) to those that are.

     

     

    It is insurance. That's how health insurance has ALWAYS worked. ALWAYS...as in prior to ACA. 

    And, stop it with the group insurance examples.  no one cares that you did underwriting in the sixties.

    Hahaha...Sorry...I thought were were talking about health insurance. Isn't group insurance through employer how most people in this country get their insurance? The answer is yes. So it's relevant. I realize you don't like it because you're out of your league in this discussion but you can't know everything my friend. There are plenty of subjects I know nothing about so I stay out of them.

     

     




     

     

     



    If you get sick and can buy health "insurance" on the spot, that's not insurance.  That's getting someone else to pay for your stupidity, that's income redistirubtion, that's Obamacare.

     

    stop trying to make simple things convoluted.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    All the more reason why every man, woman, and child in the country should be insured from birth to death.

    If everyone is covered, then perhaps they will understand how their behavior not only impacts their long=term health but also the premium they pay to live an unhealthy, destructive lifestyle.

    Likewise, conditions which are truly genetic/hereditary in nature can be mitigated early on to prevent much larger bills - to both health and wallet -  in the future.

    This requires a generational shift in attitudes and education, so it will not happen over night, next year, or even in the next 5-10 years, but it must happen whether we want it to or not.

    Ironically or not, we've been through this before with previous, equally pernicious paradigms.  "Those who choose to forget the past...", et al..

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Less reason why they should be "insured", if that is what you want to call it, from birth to death.  You will have eliminated the one thing that tends to get through to people, hitting them in the pocketbook.

     

     

    Look, Obamacare, the way it is set up, essentially says, no matter if you have insurance, no matter if you have a pre-existing condition, no matter if you are even a citizen, we will pay for all your healthcare needs.

    That is just plain stupid in the real world, and is not insurance. It is government forcing other people to pay your bills.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    None of that is true.

     

    These are private insurance policies underwritten by private insurance companies according to guidelines already in place for medicare coverage.

    Raise a person's premiums enough, and they'll wake up...like you say, hit them in the, ahem, "pocketbook".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It's all true Matty. Stop being an idiot.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UHJbKZHy3U0/ULENyY3q1bI/AAAAAAAAM9k/oKFnSeQnaGY/s400/evolution-of-man-apes-to-fat-slops.jpg

     

     

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n0dxOLX_mnY/TXFAEWbW5SI/AAAAAAAAD2I/qACPbL21vtc/s320/fat-david%255B1%255D.jpg

     

    http://scottsutton.net/wp-content/uploads/largest-man-in-the-world-in-1903.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    I realize that I'm in an extreme minority with this opinion but here goes:

     

    Not only is the government not part of the solution they are actively part of the problem in many ways. Most recently in their refusal to make sure GMO foods are labeled as such and with the push to make most nutritional supplements available only via prescription.

    If you want to be healthy you need to take charge of your own health and do the research. The standard American diet is causing us to be massively inflammatory and unhealthy. Start by taking sugar, wheat, most grains, processed dairy, processed foods, and fast foods out of your diet.

    Eat foods that are low in toxins and high in goods fats (grass fed butter, avocados,) good proteins (grass fed meats, wild caught fish,) and veggies and you'll go a very long way towards fixing your blood pressure, cholesterol, and energy issues.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    According to the liberals, you can't do all that unless government forces you to do so.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

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    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

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    Yes, being overweight is a problem, for the person being overweight.

    No, it is not a problem for government to solve.

     

    But, I have a question:  do you think up these talking points on your own, or are you part of the talking points machine?

    Somehow, I think you going to find the worlds fattest man in 1903 all by yourself a bit of a stretch.

     

     



    Who said it was a problem for govt to solve? All WDYWN did was point out what a fat fcuk of a nation we are. That ain't a talking point...that's reality

     

     

     



    And, why dod he point it out?

    My guess is this is what came up in the talking point rotation.

    Don't be naive.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe same reason I do...it's true. We are a lazy fat nation. The costs associated with obesity are driving up our health care costs. That's a fact. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you are fat, it is driving up your health costs, not mine.

     

     

     

     

     

    With government sponsored/determined coverage, I am forced to fund your problem, which is completely in your control.

    So, as a result, I now need to force you to stop eating so much, and government is the tool, probably against your will, and for sure in violation of your right to privacy.

    This, my friend, is the problem with getting government so invovled in health care.

     

     

     

     



    No, it's driving all of our costs up. If you have people on your employer plan that have obesity then they are driving up the costs for everyone on the plan. Anytime a group of people are pooled together, like for example employer health insurance from any private insurer, the sicker people can drive up the costs for everyone else.

     

     

     

     

    That's how group insurance works. 

     

     

     

     



    Then it is not insurance, it is income re-distribution, from those who aren't fat (in this example) to those that are.

     

     

    It is insurance. That's how health insurance has ALWAYS worked. ALWAYS...as in prior to ACA. 

    And, stop it with the group insurance examples.  no one cares that you did underwriting in the sixties.

    Hahaha...Sorry...I thought were were talking about health insurance. Isn't group insurance through employer how most people in this country get their insurance? The answer is yes. So it's relevant. I realize you don't like it because you're out of your league in this discussion but you can't know everything my friend. There are plenty of subjects I know nothing about so I stay out of them.

     

     



     

     

     



    If you get sick and can buy health "insurance" on the spot, that's not insurance.  That's getting someone else to pay for your stupidity, that's income redistirubtion, that's Obamacare.

     

    stop trying to make simple things convoluted.



    but one can't buy insurance on the spot for employer group insurance. One has to obtain coverage during open enrollment or go without.....unless there is a status change in your life. Status change being you got married and now want to get family coverage. Or got divorced and now need single coverage, etc.

    plus...isn't getting coverage mandatory? So doesn't that stop people from buying insurance on the spot when one is sick?

    actually it is you trying to convolute things. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

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    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

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    Yes, being overweight is a problem, for the person being overweight.

    No, it is not a problem for government to solve.

     

    But, I have a question:  do you think up these talking points on your own, or are you part of the talking points machine?

    Somehow, I think you going to find the worlds fattest man in 1903 all by yourself a bit of a stretch.

     

     



    Who said it was a problem for govt to solve? All WDYWN did was point out what a fat fcuk of a nation we are. That ain't a talking point...that's reality

     

     

     



    And, why dod he point it out?

    My guess is this is what came up in the talking point rotation.

    Don't be naive.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe same reason I do...it's true. We are a lazy fat nation. The costs associated with obesity are driving up our health care costs. That's a fact. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you are fat, it is driving up your health costs, not mine.

     

     

     

     

     

    With government sponsored/determined coverage, I am forced to fund your problem, which is completely in your control.

    So, as a result, I now need to force you to stop eating so much, and government is the tool, probably against your will, and for sure in violation of your right to privacy.

    This, my friend, is the problem with getting government so invovled in health care.

     

     

     

     



    No, it's driving all of our costs up. If you have people on your employer plan that have obesity then they are driving up the costs for everyone on the plan. Anytime a group of people are pooled together, like for example employer health insurance from any private insurer, the sicker people can drive up the costs for everyone else.

     

     

     

     

    That's how group insurance works. 

     

     

     

     



    Then it is not insurance, it is income re-distribution, from those who aren't fat (in this example) to those that are.

     

     

    It is insurance. That's how health insurance has ALWAYS worked. ALWAYS...as in prior to ACA. 

    And, stop it with the group insurance examples.  no one cares that you did underwriting in the sixties.

    Hahaha...Sorry...I thought were were talking about health insurance. Isn't group insurance through employer how most people in this country get their insurance? The answer is yes. So it's relevant. I realize you don't like it because you're out of your league in this discussion but you can't know everything my friend. There are plenty of subjects I know nothing about so I stay out of them.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you get sick and can buy health "insurance" on the spot, that's not insurance.  That's getting someone else to pay for your stupidity, that's income redistirubtion, that's Obamacare.

     

    stop trying to make simple things convoluted.

     

     



    but one can't buy insurance on the spot for employer group insurance. One has to obtain coverage during open enrollment or go without.....unless there is a status change in your life. Status change being you got married and now want to get family coverage. Or got divorced and now need single coverage, etc.

     

     

    plus...isn't getting coverage mandatory? So doesn't that stop people from buying insurance on the spot when one is sick?

    actually it is you trying to convolute things. 

     



    Just stop it, and stick to the subject. It is real simple.

     

    it is not insurance when government determines that you must buy it, determines what is covered, and if perchnace you don't have coverage and you get sick, you can sign up and use it right away.

    that's not insurance.  I don't care what planet you are on, that is income or cost distribution.

     But, once agin ,you have tried to drag this discussion on the archaic ground of underwriting ,and you don't even seem to realize that underwriting in the sense of what insurance used to be, I.e. assessing risk, has been rendered moot.

    this thread is about FAT people, not underwriting.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

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    Yes, being overweight is a problem, for the person being overweight.

    No, it is not a problem for government to solve.

     

    But, I have a question:  do you think up these talking points on your own, or are you part of the talking points machine?

    Somehow, I think you going to find the worlds fattest man in 1903 all by yourself a bit of a stretch.

     

     



    Who said it was a problem for govt to solve? All WDYWN did was point out what a fat fcuk of a nation we are. That ain't a talking point...that's reality

     

     

     



    And, why dod he point it out?

    My guess is this is what came up in the talking point rotation.

    Don't be naive.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe same reason I do...it's true. We are a lazy fat nation. The costs associated with obesity are driving up our health care costs. That's a fact. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you are fat, it is driving up your health costs, not mine.

     

     

     

     

     

    With government sponsored/determined coverage, I am forced to fund your problem, which is completely in your control.

    So, as a result, I now need to force you to stop eating so much, and government is the tool, probably against your will, and for sure in violation of your right to privacy.

    This, my friend, is the problem with getting government so invovled in health care.

     

     

     

     



    No, it's driving all of our costs up. If you have people on your employer plan that have obesity then they are driving up the costs for everyone on the plan. Anytime a group of people are pooled together, like for example employer health insurance from any private insurer, the sicker people can drive up the costs for everyone else.

     

     

     

     

    That's how group insurance works. 

     

     

     

     



    Then it is not insurance, it is income re-distribution, from those who aren't fat (in this example) to those that are.

     

     

    It is insurance. That's how health insurance has ALWAYS worked. ALWAYS...as in prior to ACA. 

    And, stop it with the group insurance examples.  no one cares that you did underwriting in the sixties.

    Hahaha...Sorry...I thought were were talking about health insurance. Isn't group insurance through employer how most people in this country get their insurance? The answer is yes. So it's relevant. I realize you don't like it because you're out of your league in this discussion but you can't know everything my friend. There are plenty of subjects I know nothing about so I stay out of them.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you get sick and can buy health "insurance" on the spot, that's not insurance.  That's getting someone else to pay for your stupidity, that's income redistirubtion, that's Obamacare.

     

    stop trying to make simple things convoluted.

     

     



    but one can't buy insurance on the spot for employer group insurance. One has to obtain coverage during open enrollment or go without.....unless there is a status change in your life. Status change being you got married and now want to get family coverage. Or got divorced and now need single coverage, etc.

     

     

    plus...isn't getting coverage mandatory? So doesn't that stop people from buying insurance on the spot when one is sick?

    actually it is you trying to convolute things. 

     



    Just stop it, and stick to the subject. It is real simple.

     

    it is not insurance when government determines that you must buy it, determines what is covered, and if perchnace you don't have coverage and you get sick, you can sign up and use it right away.

    that's not insurance.  I don't care what planet you are on, that is income or cost distribution.

     But, once agin ,you have tried to drag this discussion on the archaic ground of underwriting ,and you don't even seem to realize that underwriting in the sense of what insurance used to be, I.e. assessing risk, has been rendered moot.

    this thread is about FAT people, not underwriting.



    Hahaha....I am sticking to the subject. Like I told you before....you're out of your league with this subject.

    govt has not determined what is covered. Where do you get this stuff from? They set a MINIMUM of what should be covered. Guess what....that ain't new. Govt has ALWAYS had guidelines of certain things to be covered. 

    And how, if the govt is forcing everyone to get coverage (your words) then how could there be people who would only buy it when they get sick? You're contradicting yourself

    health insurance is now "income distribution"? Wow...alrighty then. You hit the bottle early today?

    I'm talking about health insurance, what are you talking about???? Seriously....stop drinking.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     


    Yes, being overweight is a problem, for the person being overweight.

    No, it is not a problem for government to solve.

     

    But, I have a question:  do you think up these talking points on your own, or are you part of the talking points machine?

    Somehow, I think you going to find the worlds fattest man in 1903 all by yourself a bit of a stretch.

     

     



    Who said it was a problem for govt to solve? All WDYWN did was point out what a fat fcuk of a nation we are. That ain't a talking point...that's reality

     

     

     



    And, why dod he point it out?

    My guess is this is what came up in the talking point rotation.

    Don't be naive.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe same reason I do...it's true. We are a lazy fat nation. The costs associated with obesity are driving up our health care costs. That's a fact. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you are fat, it is driving up your health costs, not mine.

     

     

     

     

     

    With government sponsored/determined coverage, I am forced to fund your problem, which is completely in your control.

    So, as a result, I now need to force you to stop eating so much, and government is the tool, probably against your will, and for sure in violation of your right to privacy.

    This, my friend, is the problem with getting government so invovled in health care.

     

     

     

     



    No, it's driving all of our costs up. If you have people on your employer plan that have obesity then they are driving up the costs for everyone on the plan. Anytime a group of people are pooled together, like for example employer health insurance from any private insurer, the sicker people can drive up the costs for everyone else.

     

     

     

     

    That's how group insurance works. 

     

     

     

     



    Then it is not insurance, it is income re-distribution, from those who aren't fat (in this example) to those that are.

     

     

    It is insurance. That's how health insurance has ALWAYS worked. ALWAYS...as in prior to ACA. 

    And, stop it with the group insurance examples.  no one cares that you did underwriting in the sixties.

    Hahaha...Sorry...I thought were were talking about health insurance. Isn't group insurance through employer how most people in this country get their insurance? The answer is yes. So it's relevant. I realize you don't like it because you're out of your league in this discussion but you can't know everything my friend. There are plenty of subjects I know nothing about so I stay out of them.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    If you get sick and can buy health "insurance" on the spot, that's not insurance.  That's getting someone else to pay for your stupidity, that's income redistirubtion, that's Obamacare.

     

    stop trying to make simple things convoluted.

     

     



    but one can't buy insurance on the spot for employer group insurance. One has to obtain coverage during open enrollment or go without.....unless there is a status change in your life. Status change being you got married and now want to get family coverage. Or got divorced and now need single coverage, etc.

     

     

    plus...isn't getting coverage mandatory? So doesn't that stop people from buying insurance on the spot when one is sick?

    actually it is you trying to convolute things. 

     



    Just stop it, and stick to the subject. It is real simple.

     

    it is not insurance when government determines that you must buy it, determines what is covered, and if perchnace you don't have coverage and you get sick, you can sign up and use it right away.

    that's not insurance.  I don't care what planet you are on, that is income or cost distribution.

     But, once agin ,you have tried to drag this discussion on the archaic ground of underwriting ,and you don't even seem to realize that underwriting in the sense of what insurance used to be, I.e. assessing risk, has been rendered moot.

    this thread is about FAT people, not underwriting.

     



    Hahaha....I am sticking to the subject. Like I told you before....you're out of your league with this subject.

     

    govt has not determined what is covered. Where do you get this stuff from? They set a MINIMUM of what should be covered. Guess what....that ain't new. Govt has ALWAYS had guidelines of certain things to be covered. 

    And how, if the govt is forcing everyone to get coverage (your words) then how could there be people who would only buy it when they get sick? You're contradicting yourself

    health insurance is now "income distribution"? Wow...alrighty then. You hit the bottle early today?

    I'm talking about health insurance, what are you talking about???? Seriously....stop drinking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    how is government forcing you to get coverage?  are you for real?  Do oyu know anythign aboutObamacare?  it is predicated on you getting insurance or be fined up to 1% of your income. That's forced.


    government hasn't determined what gets covered?  Did you miss the whole contraception debate?  didn't you earlier say something to the effect that it is just like medicaid, which is littered with government dictates on what is to be covered?

    Obama care is income re-distribution in a couple of ways. the first is that it covers peopel with pre-existing conditions without any cnosiderations.  This simply turns what was insurance into a mena by which people put the cost of their illness on others, ie. income redistribution.  The other way it is income redistribution is that our tax dollars go to subsidizing the cost of others, i.e. some skate for free, or near free.  that's income redisdtributio.

     

    Talk about being out of your element.  geesh.  you sound plain stupid.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    how is government forcing you to get coverage?  are you for real?  Do oyu know anythign aboutObamacare?  it is predicated on you getting insurance or be fined up to 1% of your income. That's forced.

    I never said govt isn't making getting coverage mandatory. So not sure who your rant was supposed to be for

    government hasn't determined what gets covered?  Did you miss the whole contraception debate?  didn't you earlier say something to the effect that it is just like medicaid, which is littered with government dictates on what is to be covered?

    my god really? I already said govt has set a minimum of what should be covered. How did you miss that? Are you sure you responded to the correct person? 

    I never said a thing about Medicaid. Never once have I mentioned Medicaid. Clearly you responded to the wrong person

    Obama care is income re-distribution in a couple of ways. the first is that it covers peopel with pre-existing conditions without any cnosiderations.  This simply turns what was insurance into a mena by which people put the cost of their illness on others, ie. income redistribution.  The other way it is income redistribution is that our tax dollars go to subsidizing the cost of others, i.e. some skate for free, or near free.  that's income redisdtributio.

    You clearly don't get how health insurance works. When a pool of people are covered there are going to be healthy ones and sick ones. this has been true of health insurance long before Obamcare. The healthy subsidize the sick. Nothing new.

    You also realize that you have been paying for the people who had no coverage who go to the hospital for services. You do realize that right? Point being that whether you pay for their services when they had no coverage or pay through taxes to subsidize their coverage through Obamacare....you're paying one way or the other.

    Talk about being out of your element.  geesh.  you sound plain stupid.

    Resorting to insults....seems you've lost the argument. Isn't that what you tell people like airborne when he resorts to insults???????

     




     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Health Care Cost Driver: Wednesday Depressies.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    All the more reason why every man, woman, and child in the country should be insured from birth to death.

    If everyone is covered, then perhaps they will understand how their behavior not only impacts their long=term health but also the premium they pay to live an unhealthy, destructive lifestyle.

    Likewise, conditions which are truly genetic/hereditary in nature can be mitigated early on to prevent much larger bills - to both health and wallet -  in the future.

    This requires a generational shift in attitudes and education, so it will not happen over night, next year, or even in the next 5-10 years, but it must happen whether we want it to or not.

    Ironically or not, we've been through this before with previous, equally pernicious paradigms.  "Those who choose to forget the past...", et al..

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Less reason why they should be "insured", if that is what you want to call it, from birth to death.  You will have eliminated the one thing that tends to get through to people, hitting them in the pocketbook.

     

     

     

    Look, Obamacare, the way it is set up, essentially says, no matter if you have insurance, no matter if you have a pre-existing condition, no matter if you are even a citizen, we will pay for all your healthcare needs.

    That is just plain stupid in the real world, and is not insurance. It is government forcing other people to pay your bills.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    None of that is true.

     

     

    These are private insurance policies underwritten by private insurance companies according to guidelines already in place for medicare coverage.

    Raise a person's premiums enough, and they'll wake up...like you say, hit them in the, ahem, "pocketbook".

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It's all true Matty. Stop being an idiot.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No, it's really not.

    Stop being an ideologue, and understand you really don't know what you're talking about.

     

     

     
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