House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : What kinds of jobs are majority of illegals doing?
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    Any job that Americans don't/won't/can't do.

    Just go to a major city in Texas. There are thousands of illegals working in skilled trades: carpenters, dry-wall installers, jackleg plumbers, roofers, bricklayers, stonemasons and tile installers. A large number of those "low-skilled jobs Americans won't do" require considerable on-the-job taining. It's not rocket science, but it does take skill. You need to develop a certain manual dexterity, you need to know the tricks of the trade and you have to practice for a long time to get the hang of those jobs. You take away those illegal immigrant workers and construction in Texas will come to a near-standstill. Sure, Americans can do those jobs and would be happy to do them if the pay was right. But between the time you deport them all and the time you train Americans, there will no building activity.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    "Any job that Americans don't/won't/can't do.

    Just go to a major city in Texas. There are thousands of illegals working in skilled trades: carpenters, dry-wall installers, jackleg plumbers, roofers, bricklayers, stonemasons and tile installers. A large number of those "low-skilled jobs Americans won't do" require considerable on-the-job taining. It's not rocket science, but it does take skill. You need to develop a certain manual dexterity, you need to know the tricks of the trade and you have to practice for a long time to get the hang of those jobs. You take away those illegal immigrant workers and construction in Texas will come to a near-standstill. Sure, Americans can do those jobs and would be happy to do them if the pay was right. But between the time you deport them all and the time you train Americans, there will no building activity.
    "

    BULL! Just Left-wing talking points. To say that American citizens don't/won't/can't work as carpenters, dry-wall installers, etc. is absolute bullshite. The pay "doesn't have to be right". You know it....I know it. Let's just drop the lying and move forward here ok? Good!
     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]Just go to the IT dept of a big company and you'll find thousands of skilled immigrants from India, and every one of them is here legally
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    Amazing especially when you consider that India shares a porous land border with the US. 
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    "BULL! Just Left-wing talking points. To say that American citizens don't/won't/can't work as carpenters, dry-wall installers, etc. is absolute bullshite. The pay "doesn't have to be right". You know it....I know it. Let's just drop the lying and move forward here ok? Good!"

    You seem to miss the point. The Americans won't work for the same pay as an illegal. They won't work in a job w/ no benefits. If they do take a job at the same rate they will constantly be looking for a job with better pay and benefits and will walk away from a job at the first opportunity. The employer will then have to hire and train a new hire. Illegals don't have that opportunity.
     So your the one spouting bullshite. Right wing babling points, idiot. Apparently you don't "know" shite.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    Hawkeye wrote:
    "BULL! Just Left-wing talking points. To say that American citizens don't/won't/can't work as carpenters, dry-wall installers, etc. is absolute bullshite. The pay "doesn't have to be right". You know it....I know it. Let's just drop the lying and move forward here ok? Good!"

    Why do you think unions were created dipshite.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    You're confused!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    That's your response? Avoid the subject when you have no plausible answer.
     Nice try but you're the one who's confused and wrong
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    "That's your response? Avoid the subject when you have no plausible answer.
     Nice try but you're the one who's confused and wrong
    "


    I don't bother with people who resort to lies and insults
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]" That's your response? Avoid the subject when you have no plausible answer.  Nice try but you're the one who's confused and wrong " I don't bother with people who resort to lies and insults
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    Typical right wing tactics.
    You are proven wrong with facts so you resort to a right wing syllogism:
    The evidence says one thing; your opinion says another; therefore, the evidence is false.

    Is that the way you go through life? Pretty sad.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]" That's your response? Avoid the subject when you have no plausible answer.  Nice try but you're the one who's confused and wrong " I don't bother with people who resort to lies and insults
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    You shouldn't call people liars unless you can prove them wrong... or you're a 3rd grader throwing a tantrum because you don't get your way.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    Blah. Blah. Blah.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : The 2007 version was crafted in large part thanks to Senators Kennedy, McCain and Kyl, Senator Lindsay Graham, with input from President GWB.    In addition McCain cosponsored a bill in 2005 that became part of the 2007 initiative along with pieces of another 2005 bill brought to the Senate by republicans John Cornyn and John Kyl.  Arlen Specter introduced an immigration reform bill in 2006 (still a republican at the time) and that bill actually PASSED in the Senate (62-36 with 21 GOP yes votes) and was cosponsored by GOP senators Brownback, Graham, McCain, Hagel, and Martinez. So if Reagan was stupid and Bush was a Neocon then what is the reason for some significant GOP support for Immigration reform that we have seen in this decade alone? 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    I have said MANY times it is BOTH parties that are the problem. BOTH parties have given into special interest groups. Both parties want big business to have cheap labor and basically take advantage of the lowest earners.

    My response was to a post about Reagan and Bush not the Republican party in general. Reagan said many times his biggest mistake on immigration reform was to trust Congress to do the right thing and hold up their end of the bargain. He was wrong and here we are 25 years later debating the same issue. It is the definition of insanity!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : Get this:  Not all illegals are unskilled, welfare seeking, criminals.  That characterization is precisely why the GOP big tent is beginnng to resemble a pup tent largely revelant only in the South.  Hispanics, unsurpisingly, take issue with being lumped together as border jumping, disease spreading (thanks jay Severin), criminals.  And for good reason, most aren't. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]
    Get this:  Not all illegals are unskilled, welfare seeking, criminals.

    May not be unskilled or welfare seeking BUT THEY ARE ALL CRIMINALS!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : I`m sure you can back this up with factual data right? Got link? Of course you don`t goofy,.............because it`s bull!  Talk to any contractor anywhere.  The single biggest issue for them is illegals taking jobs. I`ll wait patiently for your "facts"
    Posted by jmel[/QUOTE]

    And how do they "take" these jobs from legal contractors?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : Then please propose how to reform immigration with a plan that doesn't grant a path to citizenship, and then describe how we as a nation deal with the illegals in country.  No give them a bus/plane ticket home nonsense, a real plan for how we forcefully deport anywhere from 12 to 20 million people to various countries because we aren't just talking about Mexicans. 
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    Damain, I laid out a 3 point plan that would do the job. The issue is NONE of our elected "leaders" have the b@11s to do it. Yes spending a billion or two on the tickets to send them home is a better investment than doing nothing and leaving them here.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : Damain, I laid out a 3 point plan that would do the job. The issue is NONE of our elected "leaders" have the b@11s to do it. Yes spending a billion or two on the tickets to send them home is a better investment than doing nothing and leaving them here.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    I agree we need to do something and your #2 idea of hefty fines and jail is good. I don't think we should punish the innocent babies for the actions of their parents. We can still deport the parents and make THEM choose to either leave their child here in an adoption agency or bring the child with them when they are sent home.
    As for sending them home. What if their country refuses to take them? Then what? And how do we find all the illegals? The cost in manpower and time not to mention building a place to hold them while we figure out where to send them is HUGE. And then add the costs of transport and it's far larger than a few billion. There's got to be a better way. I don't have an answer but someone should figure it out.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : And how do they "take" these jobs from legal contractors?
    Posted by NeutralObserver[/QUOTE]

    By working for pennies on the dollar. They have created a false market for labor that businesses have taken full advantage of. They live 20 to a house to cut their over head. That may be a good way of life in their home country but it is not a way of life of Americans. We all strive for the house with the white picket fence and that is no longer possible for many because of the labor market that has been created by illegals and other legal foreign workers.

    Funny how the same people who cry about bankruptcy in America because of healthcare are the same groups that want the illegal and legal foreign workers in this country. Many bankruptcies have their root in an American worker having to take 20 or 30% cuts in pay or seek other, lower paying professions because they were making "too much money" and the company brought in illegals or H1B's at 40% the cost.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : I agree we need to do something and your #2 idea of hefty fines and jail is good. I don't think we should punish the innocent babies for the actions of their parents. We can still deport the parents and make THEM choose to either leave their child here in an adoption agency or bring the child with them when they are sent home. As for sending them home. What if their country refuses to take them? Then what? And how do we find all the illegals? The cost in manpower and time not to mention building a place to hold them while we figure out where to send them is HUGE. And then add the costs of transport and it's far larger than a few billion. There's got to be a better way. I don't have an answer but someone should figure it out.
    Posted by NeutralObserver[/QUOTE]

    I don't think that is punishing the children. They, IMHO, shouldn't be given citizenship just because mom ran across a line on a map and plopped them out. If mom and/or dad isn't a US citizen the child isn't either regardless of where they were born.

    My plan isn't to go looking for them per se. It is to remove the reason they come here (jobs with better wages than they can make in their home country) and force them to make their own way back. I think if you take public assistance and jobs away from them they will have no choice but to go home.

    BTW, anyone who says they don't take assistance is naive. In my town we had 15 families moved into hotels in town. 9 of them are illegal immigrant/none US citizen families. The best elementary school in town is in the area of the hotels. We had families who moved to that section of town just for that school moved to other schools in town because the school committee had to re-district because of the new 35 students. WHY is that fair? If it were me and my kids, I would have sued the town and refused to pay my property taxes. This is insanity.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : By working for pennies on the dollar. They have created a false market for labor that businesses have taken full advantage of. They live 20 to a house to cut their over head. That may be a good way of life in their home country but it is not a way of life of Americans. We all strive for the house with the white picket fence and that is no longer possible for many because of the labor market that has been created by illegals and other legal foreign workers. Funny how the same people who cry about bankruptcy in America because of healthcare are the same groups that want the illegal and legal foreign workers in this country. Many bankruptcies have their root in an American worker having to take 20 or 30% cuts in pay or seek other, lower paying professions because they were making "too much money" and the company brought in illegals or H1B's at 40% the cost.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    jmel, Brat13 agrees with my observation.

    Since we're dealing with illegals here there are not too many hard facts to point to, not too many illegals are willing to fill out questionares. Most of the evidence in anecdotal. As I've said and Brat13 has independently corroborated, illegals get the jobs by working cheaper, longer and sometimes better than Americans. Illegals will work overtime for straight pay, work holidays, double shifts etc. and not complain, they can't, they're illegal. Who can they complain to without getting deported? Americans know their rights and would file a complaint with anyone or any agency and sue your a $$. Illegals are paid off the books most of the time so the boss doesn't have to pay any taxes which can run as high as 60-70% per employee. If an American tries to file his IRS return and finds out you haven't paid taxes for him he's going to sue.
    As I believe and Brat13 also, Americans always want to get ahead. If there's another job that pays better and has better benefits he'll bolt in a second, it's the American way. Illegals can't do that. They would have to find a job off the books and hope the boss is at least honest enough to pay them.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : I`m sure you can back this up with factual data right? Got link? Of course you don`t goofy,.............because it`s bull!  Talk to any contractor anywhere.  The single biggest issue for them is illegals taking jobs. I`ll wait patiently for your "facts"
    Posted by jmel[/QUOTE]

    And he wonders why I won't bother dealing with him anymore.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It

    In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House introducing Amnesty Bill for Illegal Immigrants - Time to Fight It : I don't think that is punishing the children. They, IMHO, shouldn't be given citizenship just because mom ran across a line on a map and plopped them out. If mom and/or dad isn't a US citizen the child isn't either regardless of where they were born. My plan isn't to go looking for them per se. It is to remove the reason they come here (jobs with better wages than they can make in their home country) and force them to make their own way back. I think if you take public assistance and jobs away from them they will have no choice but to go home. BTW, anyone who says they don't take assistance is naive. In my town we had 15 families moved into hotels in town. 9 of them are illegal immigrant/none US citizen families. The best elementary school in town is in the area of the hotels. We had families who moved to that section of town just for that school moved to other schools in town because the school committee had to re-district because of the new 35 students. WHY is that fair? If it were me and my kids, I would have sued the town and refused to pay my property taxes. This is insanity.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    There is a catch 22 in that if we eliminate cheap labor many indusrtries would fail or just send production to where the cheap labor is, eliminating that job for everyone forever. The costs of many services we use would skyrocket. Even if you get a legal immigrant to do the work they will now be on the payroll with all the taxes and benefits associated with that, as much as 70% more costs. They would now be elligible for workmens comp, unemployment insurance etc.

    As for the families, phone in a tip to INS and let them handle it.
     
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