How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    The US detained and tortured Iraqis during the second gulf war.  Why was this OK?  Why weren't they treated like POWs?  Iraq had no coonection to AL Qeada.  And none of the detainees posed a threat to the safetey of Americans outside of Iraq. 

    I can understand the desire to torture members of Al Qeada, although I don't agree with it.  But we tortured Iraqis who had no connection to Al Queada.  Were they insurgents?  Yes, some were, but is an insurgent on the the same level as a terrorist?  I would think they would be along the same lines of the Viet Cong during the Vietman war.

    Why weren't the detainees in Iraq treated like POWs?

    Are we guilty of violating the Geneva Convention in Iraq?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    You lie.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    The US detained and tortured Iraqis during the second gulf war.  Why was this OK?  Why weren't they treated like POWs?  Iraq had no coonection to AL Qeada.  And none of the detainees posed a threat to the safetey of Americans outside of Iraq.  I can understand the desire to torture members of Al Qeada, although I don't agree with it.  But we tortured Iraqis who had no connection to Al Queada.  Were they insurgents?  Yes, some were, but is an insurgent on the the same level as a terrorist?  I would think they would be along the same lines of the Viet Cong during the Vietman war. Why weren't the detainees in Iraq treated like POWs? Are we guilty of violating the Geneva Convention in Iraq?
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    So I'm guessing you think American soldiers have never tortured POW's in any past wars. You have a very naive view on reality.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    And what, bobo, am I lying about?  Torturing Iraqis?  Even Bush says that the did.  Would you like to see pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused? 
     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse


    Major General Antonio Taguba has stated that there is photographic evidence of rape being carried out by American military personnel at Abu Ghraib.[9] An Iraqi teenage boy was raped by a uniformed man while photos of it were taken by a female US military police.[10] The alleged rapist was identified by a witness as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator, and who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.[9] Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner.[9] Other photos show sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.[9] Taguba has supported President Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating, “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.”[9]

    In other alleged cases, female inmates were said to be raped by soldiers.[11] In one reported case, senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.[12]

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/28/iraq-torture-secret-baghdad-prison

    Iraqis held at a secret prison in Baghdad were routinely tortured using whips, electric shocks and rape, according to an investigation by www.guardian.co.uk/law/human-rights" title="More from guardian.co.uk on Human rights">Human Rights Watch.

    www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/04/27/iraq-detainees-describe-torture-secret-jail">The organisation said it had interviewed 42 men who were among about 300 detainees transferred from the secret facility in the old Muthanna airport in west Baghdad to al-Rusafa into a special block of 19 cage-type cells over the past several weeks. The existence of the secret prison was revealed in the Los Angeles Times.

    All the detainees interviewed, Human Rights Watch said, described the same methods of www.guardian.co.uk/law/torture" title="More from guardian.co.uk on Torture">torture.

    "The jailers suspended their captives handcuffed and blindfolded upside down by means of two bars, one placed behind their calves and the other against their shins. All had terrible scabs and bruising on their legs. The interrogators then kicked, whipped and beat the detainees. Interrogators also placed a dirty plastic bag over the detainee's head to close off his air supply. Typically, when the detainee passed out from this ordeal, his interrogators awakened him with electric shocks to his genitals or other parts of his body."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    Detainees are trained to allege torture. They all do it.
    Allegations from leftist Human Rights Watch aint proof.
    You demand civilian court convictions of terrorists before you can possibly believe they are guilty of anything;
     yet you take these baldfaced allegations as gospel.

    Nor have you alleged these secret camps were run by Americans.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from estep11. Show estep11's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    I do believe DirtySewerLover you have stumbled onto nothing. Your sources are poor at best and i can't believe Obama would  pass up such a great opportunity to belittle our troops and ingratiate the arab world.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    Those tortured in Iraq weren't alledged terrorists.  These were Iraqis picked up after the "Mission Accomplished".  They wanted information about WMDs, Al Qeada, and later, the insurgents.

    I read that the reason the Al Qeada terrorists were water boarded so much was because the interrogators were looking for links between Al Qeada and Iraq.  The torture wasn't to find out about "impending terrorism actions".  They wanted the Al Qeada members to state that they had been supported by Saddam.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/washington/12detainee.html?_r=1&hp


    "A report released Thursday by leaders of the Senate Armed Services Committee said top Bush administration officials, including Donald H. Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary, bore major responsibility for the abuses committed by American troops in interrogations at Abu Ghraib in Iraq; Guantánamo Bay, Cuba; and other military detention centers.

    The report was issued jointly by Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the Democratic chairman of the panel, and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican. It represents the most thorough review by Congress to date of the origins of the abuse of prisoners in American military custody, and it explicitly rejects the Bush administration’s contention that tough interrogation methods have helped keep the country and its troops safe.

    The report also rejected previous claims by Mr. Rumsfeld and others that Defense Department policies played no role in the harsh treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 and in other episodes of abuse.

    The abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the report says, “was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own” but grew out of interrogation policies approved by Mr. Rumsfeld and other top officials, who “conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were appropriate treatment for detainees.”

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    I do believe DirtySewerLover you have stumbled onto nothing. Your sources are poor at best and i can't believe Obama would  pass up such a great opportunity to belittle our troops and ingratiate the arab world.
    Posted by estep11


    I guess the NY Times and Guardian are poor sources.

    I don't blame the troops.  This isn't about the national guardsmen who put into positions they weren't trained for.  This is about the interogators themselves.

    It's not the troops fault.  It's the fault of the senior leadership and those who put them there.  In other words, it's fault of the people who voted for them.

    People were tortured.  Women and kids were raped.  And for what?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    The American "Abu Ghraib" has been ludicrously exaggerated beyond all recognition -- a phrase, no more, used to allude to things which, when you ask the alluder to specify, turn out to be not much, in the atrocities sweepstakes. Remember exactly what did, and did not happen, at Abu Ghraib. This wasn't the Gestapo headquarters in Paris, and it wasn't anything remotely resembling what real torture chambers are like. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:

    Detainees are trained to allege torture. They all do it. Allegations from leftist Human Rights Watch aint proof. You demand civilian court convictions of terrorists before you can possibly believe they are guilty of anything;  yet you take these baldfaced allegations as gospel. Nor have you alleged these secret camps were run by Americans.
    Posted by BobinVa


    Bobo, they have photos.


    Terrorist didn't exist in Iraq until long after the US entered Bagdad.  They weren't terrorist.  Somebody makes friends with a US soldier and says, there's this guy named bobinva that was part of Saddam's secret chemical weapons team.  So the troops go to your house and grab everybody.  They take you to Abu Graib where the fun begins.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    "Terrorist didn't exist in Iraq until long after the US entered Bagdad"
    Really?
    Saddam was a mass murdering terrorist.

    http://www.city-journal.org/2009/eon0514jw.html
    He murdered hundreds of thousands, and really tortured, not the waterboarding milk toast variety.
    But you could care less.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    So Saddam torturing people makes it ok for us to torture people?  

    Remember after Gulf War I and there was a no fly rule in place?  Saddam asked if he could use helicopters to check out the damage.  We gave him the OK and he used the helicopters to gas Iraqis that were rising up against him.  And why were they rising up against him?  Because we dropped leaflets all over iraq saying, rise up against saddam and we will help you.

    Ever wonder where Saddam got the chemicals that he used against other iraqis?

    Do you think Rummy kissed Saddam on the cheeks after they shook hands?  They ended up having a lot in common - they both ordered the torture of innocent men, women and children.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    Bobin, defending torture and rape.  What a disgusting coward.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    Bobin, defending torture and rape.  What a disgusting coward.
    Posted by WhatIsItNow



    Its the classic "we must become the enemy, lest we become the enemy" strategem. Well played Bobin. Well played.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shumirules. Show shumirules's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    I know this is hard for many liberals to believe, but really really bad things happen in war all wars.

    Yes on both sides, even in wars in which America is not fighting.

    Even the greatest generation did some really evil things during WW2, I know this is shocking but yep its true.

    Is it nice? NOPE is it right? Nope 

    Is it going to stop? NO, sorry to break it to you all.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatnow3. Show whatnow3's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    Dirty- you are a liar. . . .

    And to answer your question, BECAUSE THEY DESERVE IT. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    I know this is hard for many liberals to believe, but really really bad things happen in war all wars. Yes on both sides, even in wars in which America is not fighting. Even the greatest generation did some really evil things during WW2, I know this is shocking but yep its true. Is it nice? NOPE is it right? Nope  Is it going to stop? NO, sorry to break it to you all.
    Posted by shumirules


    Are you sure bad things happen in all wars? I was under the impression the US did nothing wrong during WWII, Korea, or Vietnam to name a few. Weren't they all perfect little angels who abided strictly by all of the rules of war? Well, that's what the Left would have us all believe anyway.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    I know this is hard for many liberals to believe, but really really bad things happen in war all wars. Yes on both sides, even in wars in which America is not fighting. Even the greatest generation did some really evil things during WW2, I know this is shocking but yep its true. Is it nice? NOPE is it right? Nope  Is it going to stop? NO, sorry to break it to you all.
    Posted by shumirules


    No one is saying war is pretty, but precisely because of things that occured during world war II, modern western nations have made a concerted effort to adhere to some basic rules of war.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shumirules. Show shumirules's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis : No one is saying war is pretty, but precisely because of things that occured during world war II, modern western nations have made a concerted effort to adhere to some basic rules of war.
    Posted by ForumCleaner


    And I know its a shock that it does not work out like they say.

    We had rules in WW2 to.  Many were broken.

    War is all hell
     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis:
    In Response to Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis : And I know its a shock that it does not work out like they say. We had rules in WW2 to.  Many were broken. War is all hell
    Posted by shumirules


    Yes, everyone broke rules in WW2, and the enemy we faced was particularly evil. But the result of breaking those rules was 30 to 50 million civilians died in that war. One of the things we learned from both WWI and WWII is we don't want to be part of that kind of barbarity again. I think that is wise. Not saying we shouldn't wage war, but that we need to conduct ourselves in accordance with our moral traditions.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: How do you rationalize torture of Iraqis

    One of the things we learned from both WWI and WWII is we don't want to be part of that kind of barbarity again.


    And yet we did it again in Korea and Vietnam and now Iraq. Maybe not as many casualties as WWI or WWII but the barbarity still exists. Barbarity exists and every war....there's no way around it.  
    The very nature of war doean't allow for conducting ourselves in accordance with our moral traditions. You can tell yourself it's possible but you'll only be telling yourself a lie. 
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share