If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    He could have walked in with 2 semi automatic shotguns and 00 buck shot with a few extra clips and arguably done more damage due to the FACT that 1 shot at 20 feet with 00 buckshot (shooting ball bearings) will decimate anyone it hits within a 5 foot spread which could have been 2 or 3 kids with every shot!




    He could have used home-made grenades and tossed a few into each classroom...but he didn't.

     

    So what's your point?

    No one is saying there aren't a hundred other ways to kill people.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and narrow it down to 99 or 98.



    Haha...that's like shoveling sand against the tide. Assault weapons were used during the assault weapons ban. They've also been used in states where assault weapons have remained banned, see MA and CA. So you really think you're going to "narrow it down" eh???

     



    You have to start somewhere.  Why people defend these weapons that are designed to maximize death potential is beyond me.  Each of the victims at Newtown was hit between 3-11 times.  Isn't that just the least be excessive for any purpose?  Saving one kid is worth the loss of these weapons to others.  And I expect it would be far more than one.

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:



    Haha...that's like shoveling sand against the tide. Assault weapons were used during the assault weapons ban. They've also been used in states where assault weapons have remained banned, see MA and CA. So you really think you're going to "narrow it down" eh???

     



    He is (like the rest) just following party lines!

     

     



Party line?  Or just the rational thing to do.  The government is meant to protect us after all.

 
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    Only if the ends always justify the means.  And they clearly don't.

    It only takes one stray bullet to turn a triumph into tragedy.

     

    At the Empire State Building shooting a while back, nearly all of the injuries sustained were to innocent bystanders who were hit with stray rounds coming from trained law enforcement officers.

    I read that average accuracy among law enforcement in the U.S. is less than 40%.  Granted (and thankfully), most officers probably don't have to discharge their weapons very often...

    ...but if their marksmanship is that low, what is it among the general population and what are the consequences...?

     

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Only if the ends always justify the means.  And they clearly don't.

    It only takes one stray bullet to turn a triumph into tragedy. 

    At the Empire State Building shooting a while back, nearly all of the injuries sustained were to innocent bystanders who were hit with stray rounds coming from trained law enforcement officers.

    I read that average accuracy among law enforcement in the U.S. is less than 40%.  Granted (and thankfully), most officers probably don't have to discharge their weapons very often...

    ...but if their marksmanship is that low, what is it among the general population and what are the consequences...? 



    That was an one time anomally and a reckless act due to they were trying to hit a moving target that had innocent people behind it!

    The population may be more careful since they wouldnt have the protection govt employees do from being recklessness.

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Only if the ends always justify the means.  And they clearly don't.

    It only takes one stray bullet to turn a triumph into tragedy. 

    At the Empire State Building shooting a while back, nearly all of the injuries sustained were to innocent bystanders who were hit with stray rounds coming from trained law enforcement officers.

    I read that average accuracy among law enforcement in the U.S. is less than 40%.  Granted (and thankfully), most officers probably don't have to discharge their weapons very often...

    ...but if their marksmanship is that low, what is it among the general population and what are the consequences...? 



    That was an one time anomally and a reckless act due to they were trying to hit a moving target that had innocent people behind it!

    The population may be more careful since they wouldnt have the protection govt employees do from being recklessness.



    Is it less rare than a 15-year old shooting a burglar with an assault rifle?

    Point being is there are always exceptions, but exceptions shouldn't necessarily make the rules.

    And I would argue that, concerning gun violence, there are no sectors, only perps and victims.

     

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Only if the ends always justify the means.  And they clearly don't.

    It only takes one stray bullet to turn a triumph into tragedy.

     

    At the Empire State Building shooting a while back, nearly all of the injuries sustained were to innocent bystanders who were hit with stray rounds coming from trained law enforcement officers.

    I read that average accuracy among law enforcement in the U.S. is less than 40%.  Granted (and thankfully), most officers probably don't have to discharge their weapons very often...

    ...but if their marksmanship is that low, what is it among the general population and what are the consequences...?

     



    Why do you assume gun owners who aren't law enforcement would have worse aim? I know many cops and many citizens who own guns. The citizens go to gun range a TON more than the law officers do. In fact the range officer for Newton Police told a good friend of mine that he shot just as good as most of the officers in the dept. Oh and it was the first time my friend shot a gun. In other words the Newton police are awful.

    The shooting test for qualifying is VERY easy. You'd have to be blind to not pass the test. So let's not all assume just because someone is a cop that they are a good shot.

     



    I didn't assume anything, which is why I asked the question.  

    But it's logical to assume that trained law enforcement officials - who likely have to pass some kind of weapons training course that civilians do not - might better know their way around a trigger.

    Your anecdote makes assumptions of its own, btw.

    I'm a fairly good shot myself, but having never been in a true crisis situation where I had to fire my guns, there's really no predicting what can happen.  Follow?

    My old karate sensei used to say that it didn't matter how good someone fought or trained in the dojo; if they were not mentally prepared to act in a time of crisis, their training was worthless.  Food for thought, anyway.

     

     

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Is it less rare than a 15-year old shooting a burglar with an assault rifle?

    Point being is there are always exceptions, but exceptions shouldn't necessarily make the rules.

    And I would argue that, concerning gun violence, there are no sectors, only perps and victims.

     [/QUOTE]


    The only thing this irrational talk (and that's all it is) is doing is putting tens of thousands more assault rifles in population and making weapons dealers billions!!

    Reid is backing off legislation and Biden is not talking assault rifles anymore just high capacity magazines.

    Its a farce political stunt and the gun traders/sellers love it!!!

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    Only if the ends always justify the means.  And they clearly don't.

    It only takes one stray bullet to turn a triumph into tragedy.

     

    At the Empire State Building shooting a while back, nearly all of the injuries sustained were to innocent bystanders who were hit with stray rounds coming from trained law enforcement officers.

    I read that average accuracy among law enforcement in the U.S. is less than 40%.  Granted (and thankfully), most officers probably don't have to discharge their weapons very often...

    ...but if their marksmanship is that low, what is it among the general population and what are the consequences...?

     



    Why do you assume gun owners who aren't law enforcement would have worse aim? I know many cops and many citizens who own guns. The citizens go to gun range a TON more than the law officers do. In fact the range officer for Newton Police told a good friend of mine that he shot just as good as most of the officers in the dept. Oh and it was the first time my friend shot a gun. In other words the Newton police are awful.

    The shooting test for qualifying is VERY easy. You'd have to be blind to not pass the test. So let's not all assume just because someone is a cop that they are a good shot.

     



    I didn't assume anything, which is why I asked the question.  

    But it's logical to assume that trained law enforcement officials - who likely have to pass some kind of weapons training course that civilians do not - might better know their way around a trigger.

    Your anecdote makes assumptions of its own, btw.

    I'm a fairly good shot myself, but having never been in a true crisis situation where I had to fire my guns, there's really no predicting what can happen.  Follow?

    My old karate sensei used to say that it didn't matter how good someone fought or trained in the dojo; if they were not mentally prepared to act in a time of crisis, their training was worthless.  Food for thought, anyway.

     

     



    My anecdote makes no assumptions. It's all facts.

     

    I'm a fairly good shot myself, but having never been in a true crisis situation where I had to fire my guns, there's really no predicting what can happen.  Follow?

    Same goes for 99.9% of cops. Follow?



    Your anecdote assumes Newton is reperesentative of law enforcement in general.  Is it?

    All citizens go to the range more than cops?  Really?!?  Or just your friends in Newton?

    Isn't it possible the range guide was just pulling your friend's chain to get more business?

    So, only 0.1% of police have ever been in a situation to fire their weapons to enforce the law?  

     

    We were doing fine until you got all pi55y.  Jerkov.

     

     

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [/QUOTE]

    Your anecdote assumes Newton is reperesentative of law enforcement in general.  Is it?

    All citizens go to the range more than cops?  Really?!?  Or just your friends in Newton?

    Isn't it possible the range guide was just pulling your friend's chain to get more business?

    So, only 0.1% of police have ever been in a situation to fire their weapons to enforce the law?  

     We were doing fine until you got all pi55y.  Jerkov.

     [/QUOTE]


    The left always chooses govt over private citizens.

    except when a non lefty is making the decisions. lol

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:



    Your anecdote assumes Newton is reperesentative of law enforcement in general.  Is it?

    All citizens go to the range more than cops?  Really?!?  Or just your friends in Newton?

    Isn't it possible the range guide was just pulling your friend's chain to get more business?

    So, only 0.1% of police have ever been in a situation to fire their weapons to enforce the law?  

     We were doing fine until you got all pi55y.  Jerkov.

     




    The left always chooses govt over private citizens.

    except when a non lefty is making the decisions. lol



  • What, in the name of Buffalo Bill, are you talking about...!?!?

     

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    What a success story!  Let's take a lesson from this story, and start handing out assault weapons in middle shool, since letting 12 and 15-year-olds have easy access to them is such a wonderful idea.

    Too bad the intruders survived - taking a human life is such a character-building rite of passage. 

     

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    HOUSTON – The teenage son of a Harris County Precinct 1 deputy shot a home intruder Tuesday afternoon in the 2600 block of Royal Place in northwest Harris County, deputies said.

    The 15-year-old boy and his 12-year-old sister had been home alone in the Mount Royal Village subdivision when around 2:30 p.m. a pair of burglars tried the front and back doors, then broke a back window.

    The teenager grabbed his father's assault rifle and knew what to do with it.

    “We don't try to hide things from our children in law enforcement,” Lt. Jeffrey Stauber said. “That young boy was protecting his sister. He was in fear for his life and her life.”

    The home invaders fled, leaving a trail of blood.

    Shortly afterwards, two suspects showed up at Tomball hospital. One was an adult and was hit at least three times. Lifeflight flew him to Memorial Hermann hospital in the Medical Center. The second suspect, a juvenile, was taken back to the crime scene, authorities said.

    Neighbors said burglars had recently struck the two houses next door, including the deputy's home.

    “They stole everything -- what they have inside. They already did it one time,” Rafael Cortez said.

    http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Burglary-suspect-shot-by-15-year-old-son-of-deputy-97430719.html



    No.

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    He could have walked in with 2 semi automatic shotguns and 00 buck shot with a few extra clips and arguably done more damage due to the FACT that 1 shot at 20 feet with 00 buckshot (shooting ball bearings) will decimate anyone it hits within a 5 foot spread which could have been 2 or 3 kids with every shot!




    He could have used home-made grenades and tossed a few into each classroom...but he didn't.

     

    So what's your point?

    No one is saying there aren't a hundred other ways to kill people.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and narrow it down to 99 or 98.



    Haha...that's like shoveling sand against the tide. Assault weapons were used during the assault weapons ban. They've also been used in states where assault weapons have remained banned, see MA and CA. So you really think you're going to "narrow it down" eh???

     



    You have to start somewhere.  Why people defend these weapons that are designed to maximize death potential is beyond me.  Each of the victims at Newtown was hit between 3-11 times.  Isn't that just the least be excessive for any purpose?  Saving one kid is worth the loss of these weapons to others.  And I expect it would be far more than one.

    A waste on ammunition no doubt.

    It it worth losing a constitutional freedom since our inception?

    Still blaming the guns? They are very and consistently rational.

     



    There is no Constitutional right to a particular weapon.  

    And yes, guns are the problem in gun violence.  Pretty obvious to those that think rationally.

     
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    Re: If an AR- 15 saved lives in the private sector does it make a difference?

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:



    Your anecdote assumes Newton is reperesentative of law enforcement in general.  Is it?

    All citizens go to the range more than cops?  Really?!?  Or just your friends in Newton?

    Isn't it possible the range guide was just pulling your friend's chain to get more business?

    So, only 0.1% of police have ever been in a situation to fire their weapons to enforce the law?  

     We were doing fine until you got all pi55y.  Jerkov.

     




    The left always chooses govt over private citizens.

    except when a non lefty is making the decisions. lol



  • Stop speaking nonsense.  In this case we as private citizens are choosing government to PROTECT us from other (bad) private citizens.  That is one of the government's jobs.  And the government is us.  Democracy and all that...  Try to pay attention to the country you live in.

     
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