Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

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    Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/

    Just posturing? Before it was said the Iran President says crazy things but, the Ayatollahs would never allow it. What now?
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]Curious that they would strengthen the argument for a military invention.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    Religious fanatics do not think logically!
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    Maybe they want Israel to strike so they can retaliate with a weapon we do not even think they possess yet?
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!! : Religious fanatics do not think logically!
    Posted by sk8ter2008[/QUOTE]

    That is largely true.  Of ALL religions.

    But given their illogic, why should we take their words at face value?

    I still think it's just rhetoric, but clearly you disagree.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!! : Well, Ok, but we also started taking Al Queda and other terrorist organizations "rhetoric" seriously, even if we didn't think they could/would succesfully carry out each threat. Israel has a lot more reason to be concerned; they have been attacked by multiple arab nations since their birth; they have endured decades of fortunately now-slowed Palestinian terrorist attacks, maiming or killing tens of thousands; they endured Hezbollah's rockets from Lebanon. And now, here is Iran's biggest bigshot once more stating an intent to destroy them utterly, all the while its nuclear proram progresses. So it's a hell of a lot easier for us to say "Pah, just rhetoric" than it is for Israel. This is very much like if a sister organization to Al Queda ran the southern half of Mexico, regularly threatened to destroy the United States, and had close ties to a number of organizations that killed tens of thousands of Americans over few decades. (And here I speak of Iran supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, etc). Of course, we do not have that problem because we exercise far less restraint when dealing with our enemies than does Israel. Now Iran may not be reckless enough to actually risk something like a nuclear attack, seeing as we could level them hundreds of times over. But,  I would not put it past Iran to try to trigger an Israeli attack, then turn around and try to use their false-victim status to Israel's international chagrin. "Hey, US, see what your supposed peaceful ally does?" And again, Israel has some very good reasons for pre-emptive strikes that we don't have.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    There are several distinctions to be made here.

    1) AQ wasn't taken seriously until they hit American soil, and they didn't have their own sovereign state (unless you count Saudi Arabia).

    2) Iran is not an 'arab nation', and despite their opposition to israel, they have very little support in the gulf.  Nobody in the region would back them militarily (maybe Syria, but they're...occupied right now).

    3) I believe, based on several readings of the situation, that Iran is trying to goad Israel or the U.S. into an attack that the rest of the world can condemn in order to make itself look more legitimate.  To do so would show greater acquiescence, I think, than in maintaining a strong diplomatic show of force.  Just as with Palestine, negotiations are the best way forward.

    4) My major problem is the stranglehold that Israeli policy has on our own U.S. foreign policy.  The GOP candidates are craven in their submission to anything Israel does, and that's a very dangerous position to be, much less operate, in.

    5) Israel is not blameless, nor are they angels.  They must take responsibility for their own actions, something that may be difficult if the U.S. is always willing to do it for them.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    The first AQ attack on US soil was the 93 bombing of the WTC. The second was the USS Cole and the third was 9-11.

    Arab nation has little to do with it. The are a shiite muslim nation and syria along with a large population in Iraq etc are as well. It is not unlikely that Russia and China may supply weapons to them if, a "war" with Israel broke out.

    But, the real threat is Iran using their proxies (Hama's/Hezbullah) to deliver a dirty bomb or worse into Israel.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]Of course, the Palestinians aren't doing themselves any favors either... _____________________________________________________________________ JERUSALEM — President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority embraced reconciliation with the Islamist movement Hamas on Monday, agreeing to head a unity government to prepare for elections in the West Bank and Gaza. His move was welcomed cautiously by a broad range of Palestinians who are fed up with the brutal split at the heart of their national movement. It promised to upend Israeli-Palestinian relations, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warning Mr. Abbas that he could have peace with Israel, or unity with Hamas, but not both. The agreement between Mr. Abbas, the leader of Fatah , and Khaled Meshal, the head of Hamas, was yet another convulsion in the Middle East involving the rise of political Islam and the challenge it poses to pro-Western forces. It put Israel, which is nervously watching the new order taking shape around it, further on edge. “Hamas is an enemy of peace,” Mr. Netanyahu said. “It’s an Iranian-backed terror organization committed to Israel’s destruction.”     http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/world/middleeast/palestinian-factions-reach-unity-deal.html?hp     Yeah we partnered with enemies sworn to your utter extermination. But hey, give us a state. Would we grant statehood to anyone who formed a unity government w/ AQ?
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    Sadly, it may depend on who the "we" is. Some are apparently naive enough to think, appeasement and talking with, will make extremist less extreme.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]They may very well want to provoke an Israeli strike. In fact, that's really the only thing I can imagine behind re-asserting hostile intentions in the midst of a sanction debacle, particularly issued from the highest level of the power structure. But they would have to be truly MAD to launch a nuclear attack on a big U.S. ally. Then again, I had thought the mullahs had slightly more level, even if misguided, heads.....     
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]
    Not if they believe China and Russia will come to their aid. The two have been protecting them in the UN for decades.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!! : Ah, but that's simply because the U.N. put them on the security council. (And Libya was on the human rights council? AYFKM?). The calculus is obviously vastly different for a hot war. Particularly a nuclear one. I have a hard time believing Russia or China would come to Iran's aid, if Iran started a nuclear war of aggression against Israel. (In fact, who knows. When the stakes are potentially global annihilation, I would guess that most countries would seriously hesitate before becomming involved). Particularly when Russia's ability to maintain quasi-totalitarian rule looks increasingly questionable.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    I agree but, a nuclear attack by Iran on Israel may not be as spectacular as "A nuclear war that would cause global annihilation" It may be a small Nuke or dirty bomb that only kills 10's of thousands (much less initially but through Radiation poisoning over time) and has little carry over radiation.

    It's likely Iran would not launch from within their soil but, allow a regional extremist group with loose leadership and ties so, they would have some deniability at least initially.
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-china-oil-supplies-idUSTRE8161RG20120207?feedType=nl&feedName=usbusinessearly

    Maybe China will not help Iran afterall!!
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]Oh I know my analogy has many dissimilarities. But I think we're agreed at least as to what's going on with Iran at the moment ( #3, your post). I tend to think that Iran is very unlikely to actually use a nuke or WMD, for the same simple reason that I argued in 2003 that a WMD-loaded Saddam was not a threat to U.S. national interest: Power-hungry leaders, well, want to keep power. I don't think there was any risk Saddam would ever use a WMD on the US or an ally because the reaction. It would be rather mad. Ditto Iran. May be a completely whacked theocracy, but no matter how much its leaders might talk up martyrdom I, for some reason, seriously doubt they themselves have any desire to become martyrs. One does not keep power by launching a nuke, or by attacking the most powerful country on Earth's good ally. Of course, the problem is whether we can trust them to negotiate in good faith. It seems to me like they're just following North Korea's example - just keep the U.S. coming back to the table, but don't do anything to provoke a direct attack...   and eventually....you get a weapons program. I agree Israel is not blameless, but I cannot agree with #4. A stranglehold? In what sense. Bear in mind, they are a strong ally in a region of enemies and questionable friends. If another one of our strong allies found themselves surrounded by a sea of enemies, our policy would tilt heavily in their favor. But stranglehold? To my eyes, Republicans seem to have a much more realistic appreciation for the conditions under which Israel has had to operate and operates than do the Democrats; Democrats seem to very much have a one-sided pro-Palestinian view that focuses mainly on their sufferings...without recognizing the many reasons for which they suffer. Neither position is as nuanced as it should be, because just as I think Democrats seem to blindly oppose Israel in favor of the Palestinians, Republicans do the precise opposite. Israel is not doign itself many favors in the "peace process", paticularly the ultra-Orthodox Jewish settlements. Of course, the biggest issue for me in all of these discussions is what I see as a general refusal of each of us to do our best to keep our principles straight - that is, the argument I've made a million times before comparing Palestinians and American Indians (or any other group dispossessed of land in the past). The people calling themselves Palestinians are a disparate group of various arabs from various areas, and none of the other arab countries in the area wants any part of them. But even assuming it was "their" land at one point.....  when are we speaking of? Because before Israel, it was Britain; before them Ottoman. And on and on. Of course, all that may need to bend to pragmatic reality. That reality quite clearly appears to be a two-state solution, regardless of who has a "right" to what. But I do think Americans need to be more careful in speaking about what land Israel has a "right" to and which it doesn't. I don't know. I have a hard time listening to an American tell Israel that it has no right to land Britain occupied and gave to it..... ...at the very same points in time we were still forcibly removing American Indians from their land. At some point, land becomes someone else's.... (Or, for that matter, that Israel does not have any "right" to land seized following its victory over several arab countries seeking to use that land to destroy it. Do we not still control some territories we seized in the same general manner? That's a matter of pragmatics in my mind. ie, such as informed what we did post-WWI and what we did post-WWII. But not a matter of "right").
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    I think we agree more than we don't.

    The best comparison I can think of is apartheid-era south africa.  The policy as it stood was untenable - a holdover from colonial times that failed to recognize the basic human rights of the majority which was being treated like a minority for all intents and purposes.

    I don't have time to go through it all, but it seems like a very basic requirement for U.S. aid that the receiving govt must exercise democracy, the rule of law and honor (at least) a version of our core principles of liberty and "all men are created equal".  I don't think that's too much to ask; the problem is that american leaders appear incapable of asking for anything, much less criticizing behaviors, of an israeli govt that doesn't seem to give us the same consideration.  Is there any other ally that treats our protection and assistance so disrespectfully?
     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]President Jack Ryan takes over every TV signal in the world. "The United States has recently been attacked with a devastating biological weapon, that has resulted in the deaths of over 1 million Americans.  The man responsible for this attack is, the Ayatollah Mahmoud Haji Daryaei. <switch to live shot, Tehran /> This is his home, and that man in the window watching this broadcast, is the Ayatollah Mahmoud Haji Daryaei (there is a red laser dot, next to the window), and THIS, is the response, of the United States of America" Ka-BOOM!!!! Tom Clancy, Executive Orders. Clancy for President!
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    Ironic (I suppose) that the best personification of Clancy's spy yarns turned out to be a secret kenyan muslim librul from hawaii with a funny-sounding name.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sk8ter2008. Show sk8ter2008's posts

    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    I stopped reading Clancey after Rainbow 6.

     
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    Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!

    In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iran's supreme leader calls for the annihilation of Israel and murder of all Jews!! : Rainbox Six is after Executive Orders, and I highly recommend The Bear and the Dragon (VERY long)
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    I loved the early stuff Patriot games and Sum of all fears! I'm not a big fan of the newer series that's ollaborated or written by another writer.
     

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