IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    The Internal Revenue Service is targeting the veterans’ organization the American Legion, and a U.S. senator believes that Lois Lerner — a key figure in the IRS scandal – is to blame.

    “The IRS now requires American Legion posts to maintain dates of service and character of service records for all members… The penalty for not having the required proof of eligibility is, apparently, $1,000 per day,” the American Legion stated.

    The section falls under “Exempt Organizations Examination Guidelines,” which is the jurisdiction of Exempt Organizations head Lois Lerner, who apologized for improperly targeting tea party groups and tried to plead the Fifth Amendment in a congressional hearing.

    “The American Legion has recently learned of the so-called IRS ‘audit manual’ and is concerned that portions of it attempt to amend statutes passed by Congress and approved by the president,” American Legion legal counsel Philip Onderdonk, Jr. told The Daily Caller.


    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/23/irs-is-targeting-the-american-legion-with-audit-new-set-of-guidelines/#ixzz2iAcgQIit    

     

    And on and on the harassment of conservative organizations continue, this time with extra-legal regulations which supersede the established law of the United States. Unbelievable.    

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    The Internal Revenue Service is targeting the veterans’ organization the American Legion, and a U.S. senator believes that Lois Lerner — a key figure in the IRS scandal – is to blame.

    “The IRS now requires American Legion posts to maintain dates of service and character of service records for all members… The penalty for not having the required proof of eligibility is, apparently, $1,000 per day,” the American Legion stated.

    The section falls under “Exempt Organizations Examination Guidelines,” which is the jurisdiction of Exempt Organizations head Lois Lerner, who apologized for improperly targeting tea party groups and tried to plead the Fifth Amendment in a congressional hearing.

    “The American Legion has recently learned of the so-called IRS ‘audit manual’ and is concerned that portions of it attempt to amend statutes passed by Congress and approved by the president,” American Legion legal counsel Philip Onderdonk, Jr. told The Daily Caller.


    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/23/irs-is-targeting-the-american-legion-with-audit-new-set-of-guidelines/#ixzz2iAcgQIit    

     

    And on and on the harassment of conservative organizations continue, this time with extra-legal regulations which supersede the established law of the United States. Unbelievable.    

    [/QUOTE]

    SB,

    I am a little surprised that the IRS is going after certain veteran organizations so soon after the flap over the Tea Party audits.

    Reading the full article it does seem to be within their purview but it just does not seem to be good politics. I was not surprised to read that the American Legion, at their national convention, will address this situation and attempt to get certain provisions of the IRS manual changed to prevent them from being able to do this.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    Political leanings aside..I can't say that I am disappointed that the IRS may be cracking down on  non profit or tax exempt groups. I am all for veterans organizations..but guess what? My local Legion Hall is loaded with members who have never served.  So..I don't have a problem having telling legion halls they have to provide proof of service  for members. Members should have to provide proof of service when they join..but a lot of legion halls have become more like social clubs as the rules have been relaxed. A lot of people join the local legion because it is a cheap place to get drinks.

    I work for a non profit and we are held to very strict standards. No reason why any other non -profit should not be held to the same standards.

     

    Now...if you can prove to me that the IRS is simply targeting Legion halls because they are perceived to be conservative..then I would denounce that. Of course..the conversations at the legion all in my neck of the woods don't seem very conservative in nature anyhow.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andiejen. Show andiejen's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Political leanings aside..I can't say that I am disappointed that the IRS may be cracking down on  non profit or tax exempt groups. I am all for veterans organizations..but guess what? My local Legion Hall is loaded with members who have never served.  So..I don't have a problem having telling legion halls they have to provide proof of service  for members. Members should have to provide proof of service when they join..but a lot of legion halls have become more like social clubs as the rules have been relaxed. A lot of people join the local legion because it is a cheap place to get drinks.

    I work for a non profit and we are held to very strict standards. No reason why any other non -profit should not be held to the same standards.

     

    Now...if you can prove to me that the IRS is simply targeting Legion halls because they are perceived to be conservative..then I would denounce that. Of course..the conversations at the legion all in my neck of the woods don't seem very conservative in nature anyhow.

    [/QUOTE]

    cricket, 

    I am no expert on the American Legion, much less the make-up of individual halls, but IMO you make a very good point.

    Tax emption is of course a valued designation. I can easily see how the halls can be mixing actual veterans with their non-veteran friends as a social destination.

    It is not a lot to require that all members provide proof of veteran status. For those halls unwilling to provide such proof they have the option of giving up their tax exempt status and going on as they are now. 

    Perhaps the halls around you do not seem so conservative because of where they are located...in liberal MA. Just speculation of course.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    The President said he is more than willing to listen to good ideas, and is open to negotiate now that there is no Government shutdown. [snicker]

    Why dont we negotiate an obvious solution: tax simplification and tax reform, so the tyranny of the IRS will be impossible? Revenue neutral reform; everyone knows it would help the economy, free billions of dollars wasted in trying to comply with impossibly complex IRS regs.

    Mr President? Oops,  sorry he is doing what he has done for 5 years--campaigning , demonizing Republicans, the "wealthy", and defending the takeover of every aspect of your life to the Nanny State...

    Listen to good ideas?Negotiate? Obama? You have got to be kidding!

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    The vet orgs that I deal with all require service for membership, but fairly open in practice to friends and family.  

     If the organization is specifically for vets, then it needs to focus on vets.  I do think it is legitimate for people to join these organizations in some capacity as supporters, but not as members.  Maybe associates or something.  Heck, I think even Obama recognized that wives and familiy members have also "served", i.e. carried the burdens of deployement and service.  Was that just typical empty Obama rhetoric?

    Think about the broader picture, why is government so keen about this?  I don't think the various vet organizations are amassing wealth like the catholic church or a televangalist.  Think about how this precident could effect other tax exempt organizations, how this shifts the generally lax requirements  towards a tighter responsibility towards government.  

    What is happening here is Obama bringing tax exempt organizations into tighter control by government.  Vet groups are low hanging fruit and a toofer.  Churches are somewhere down the line.  Government feels the need to control tax exempt groups far beyond the spirit of having tax exempt groups.

     

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]The vet orgs that I deal with all require service for membership, but fairly open in practice to friends and family.

     

    If the organization is specifically for vets, then it needs to focus on vets.  I do think it is legitimate for people to join these organizations in some capacity as supporters, but not as members.  Maybe associates or something.  Heck, I think even Obama recognized that wives and familiy members have also "served", i.e. carried the burdens of deployement and service.  Was that just typical empty Obama rhetoric?

    Think about the broader picture, why is government so keen about this?  I don't think the various vet organizations are amassing wealth like the catholic church or a televangalist.  Think about how this precident could effect other tax exempt organizations, how this shifts the generally lax requirements  towards a tighter responsibility towards government.  

    What is happening here is Obama bringing tax exempt organizations into tighter control by government.  Vet groups are low hanging fruit and a toofer.  Churches are somewhere down the line.  Government feels the need to control tax exempt groups far beyond the spirit of having tax exempt groups.

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh My Gawd ... Obama wants to enforce the law.

     

    If any of these vets organizations, and I belong to all the major ones, want to be tax exempt, then follow the law. The VFW does the best job at enforcing membership rules, but pretty much any American Legion is now a for-profit bar open to the public.

    If these were union clubs or clubs sponsored by the now defunct ACORN or Planned Parenthood, the wingnuts would be cheering.

    Vets are not entitled to break the law.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Get the wax out of your ears. I largely agree with you. I think they should focus on vets.

    in your rush to support the raw power of the state coming down on veterans, you missed that.

    i also opined that this power, in the wrong hand, is going to lead to greater intrusions. The statist apparatus is like a beast that needs to feed. It will move on to other organizations. That's a problem. Time for government to get back into proper alignment with it's bosses.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The President said he is more than willing to listen to good ideas, and is open to negotiate now that there is no Government shutdown. [snicker]

    Why dont we negotiate an obvious solution: tax simplification and tax reform, so the tyranny of the IRS will be impossible? Revenue neutral reform; everyone knows it would help the economy, free billions of dollars wasted in trying to comply with impossibly complex IRS regs.

    Mr President? Oops,  sorry he is doing what he has done for 5 years--campaigning , demonizing Republicans, the "wealthy", and defending the takeover of every aspect of your life to the Nanny State...

    Listen to good ideas?Negotiate? Obama? You have got to be kidding!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You my friend are the expert of and on demonizing. Calling someone irresponsible is one thing as the President has done regarding those who are IN FACT irresponsible. Demonizing is however what you and your zombie like minions have been doing for 6 years or so.

    You my friend are the very picture of a hypocrit.

     

     
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  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    I had a similar conversation earlier today. It is amazing to me that anyone would be opposed to the government cracking down on potential fraud and abuse. WHo ever stated that legions have more or less become for profit bars is right on the money. Not all for sure..but some..and having one operating in that manner is reason enough to make sure everything is on the up and up.

    Personally..I think too many tax exemptions are given out. To put the problem into perspective...the NFL is a tax exempt organization.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    The Internal Revenue Service is targeting the veterans’ organization the American Legion, and a U.S. senator believes that Lois Lerner — a key figure in the IRS scandal – is to blame.

    “The IRS now requires American Legion posts to maintain dates of service and character of service records for all members… The penalty for not having the required proof of eligibility is, apparently, $1,000 per day,” the American Legion stated.

    The section falls under “Exempt Organizations Examination Guidelines,” which is the jurisdiction of Exempt Organizations head Lois Lerner, who apologized for improperly targeting tea party groups and tried to plead the Fifth Amendment in a congressional hearing.

    “The American Legion has recently learned of the so-called IRS ‘audit manual’ and is concerned that portions of it attempt to amend statutes passed by Congress and approved by the president,” American Legion legal counsel Philip Onderdonk, Jr. told The Daily Caller.


    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/23/irs-is-targeting-the-american-legion-with-audit-new-set-of-guidelines/#ixzz2iAcgQIit    

     

    And on and on the harassment of conservative organizations continue, this time with extra-legal regulations which supersede the established law of the United States. Unbelievable.    

    [/QUOTE]


    The American Legion has become a political organization.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    Let's play a game Alley, who is more political?

    The American Legion or Soros funded 501(c) organization Americans United for Change?

    http://www.legion.org or http://www.americansunitedforchange.org

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]The vet orgs that I deal with all require service for membership, but fairly open in practice to friends and family.

     

    If the organization is specifically for vets, then it needs to focus on vets.  I do think it is legitimate for people to join these organizations in some capacity as supporters, but not as members.  Maybe associates or something.  Heck, I think even Obama recognized that wives and familiy members have also "served", i.e. carried the burdens of deployement and service.  Was that just typical empty Obama rhetoric?

    Think about the broader picture, why is government so keen about this?  I don't think the various vet organizations are amassing wealth like the catholic church or a televangalist.  Think about how this precident could effect other tax exempt organizations, how this shifts the generally lax requirements  towards a tighter responsibility towards government.  

    What is happening here is Obama bringing tax exempt organizations into tighter control by government.  Vet groups are low hanging fruit and a toofer.  Churches are somewhere down the line.  Government feels the need to control tax exempt groups far beyond the spirit of having tax exempt groups.

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh My Gawd ... Obama wants to enforce the law.

     

    If any of these vets organizations, and I belong to all the major ones, want to be tax exempt, then follow the law. The VFW does the best job at enforcing membership rules, but pretty much any American Legion is now a for-profit bar open to the public.

    If these were union clubs or clubs sponsored by the now defunct ACORN or Planned Parenthood, the wingnuts would be cheering.

    Vets are not entitled to break the law.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Get the wax out of your ears. I largely agree with you. I think they should focus on vets.

    in your rush to support the raw power of the state coming down on veterans, you missed that.

    i also opined that this power, in the wrong hand, is going to lead to greater intrusions. The statist apparatus is like a beast that needs to feed. It will move on to other organizations. That's a problem. Time for government to get back into proper alignment with it's bosses.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry spanky, but you're spouting Orwellian double-speak.

    The job of the executive branch is to enforce legislation.

    In one post you're saying they (someone) should enforce the tax regulations against vet organizations but then out the other end of your torso you say it shouldn't be the enforcement branch of gov't.  If not the exec branch, then who?

    You're just being ridiculous.

    [/QUOTE]

    Where did I say the ecxecutive branch shouldn't enforce?  Man, you have got to put that pipe down.

    I guess you think that Obama should follow Obamacare to the letter of the law, and peel back the 2,000 exemptions, primarily to unions that funded his re-election, and 19 explicit executive "changes", including the one year delay for employers, by the executive branch, right?

    I also expect you to insist that Obama enforce every single immigration law, right?

    Your problem is that you have no common sense. That's why every argument you present fails as you flail.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]Let's play a game Alley, who is more political?

     

    The American Legion or Soros funded 501(c) organization Americans United for Change? http://www.legion.org or http://www.americansunitedforchange.org

    [/QUOTE]


    Another strawman argument from SB .... "Hey, look over there at the 'libruls'... "

     

    It doesn't matter who is more political ... the issue is that one plays by the rules and the other doesn't.

    I wonder why you didn't use the Koch Bros as an example of a political arganization?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    ...becasue the Koch brothers are patriots and Soros is a foriegn national bent on destroying this country?  How close am I?

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]The vet orgs that I deal with all require service for membership, but fairly open in practice to friends and family.

     

    If the organization is specifically for vets, then it needs to focus on vets.  I do think it is legitimate for people to join these organizations in some capacity as supporters, but not as members.  Maybe associates or something.  Heck, I think even Obama recognized that wives and familiy members have also "served", i.e. carried the burdens of deployement and service.  Was that just typical empty Obama rhetoric?

    Think about the broader picture, why is government so keen about this?  I don't think the various vet organizations are amassing wealth like the catholic church or a televangalist.  Think about how this precident could effect other tax exempt organizations, how this shifts the generally lax requirements  towards a tighter responsibility towards government.  

    What is happening here is Obama bringing tax exempt organizations into tighter control by government.  Vet groups are low hanging fruit and a toofer.  Churches are somewhere down the line.  Government feels the need to control tax exempt groups far beyond the spirit of having tax exempt groups.

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh My Gawd ... Obama wants to enforce the law.

     

    If any of these vets organizations, and I belong to all the major ones, want to be tax exempt, then follow the law. The VFW does the best job at enforcing membership rules, but pretty much any American Legion is now a for-profit bar open to the public.

    If these were union clubs or clubs sponsored by the now defunct ACORN or Planned Parenthood, the wingnuts would be cheering.

    Vets are not entitled to break the law.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Get the wax out of your ears. I largely agree with you. I think they should focus on vets.

    in your rush to support the raw power of the state coming down on veterans, you missed that.

    i also opined that this power, in the wrong hand, is going to lead to greater intrusions. The statist apparatus is like a beast that needs to feed. It will move on to other organizations. That's a problem. Time for government to get back into proper alignment with it's bosses.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry spanky, but you're spouting Orwellian double-speak.

    The job of the executive branch is to enforce legislation.

    In one post you're saying they (someone) should enforce the tax regulations against vet organizations but then out the other end of your torso you say it shouldn't be the enforcement branch of gov't.  If not the exec branch, then who?

    You're just being ridiculous.

    [/QUOTE]

    Where did I say the ecxecutive branch shouldn't enforce?  Man, you have got to put that pipe down.

    I guess you think that Obama should follow Obamacare to the letter of the law, and peel back the 2,000 exemptions, primarily to unions that funded his re-election, and 19 explicit executive "changes", including the one year delay for employers, by the executive branch, right?

    I also expect you to insist that Obama enforce every single immigration law, right?

    Your problem is that you have no common sense. That's why every argument you present fails as you flail.

    [/QUOTE]


    Heh, heh, heh ... better tighten down that tinfoil hat spanky, reality is fixing to keep slapping you upside your head.

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess you can't answer the question. 

    It follows, right? you say the executive branch has to follow the law to the letter, no wiggle room.  I give you two areas where this current executive has exercised enormous wiggle room, and you collapse your argument to tin foil hats.

    The verdict is in, you lose.

     
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