Is $250K Rich?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to jmel's comment:

     I hear you Kojak.  For the last 10 years it seems like I`ve had 2 overlaping in college.  Even when one of them chose a state school it still amounted to somewhere between 40-60k per year when 2 were in at the same time.  That`s after-tax money.  I`m with you.  A mortgage, car payment(s), insurance, tuition, and there`s nothing left.  Yet, you`re "rich", you`re "wealthy", and you need to pay your "fair share".I`m sick of hearing it. 

    Wealth is not a relative term insofar as the government is concerned, and I don't subscribe to it being relative, either.   Value systems are relative, not the money itself.  

    The data is crunched by the Census Bureau, and unfortunately, and while not entirely fair, they top off the earning rate at 250K; there is a very low percentage of people who earn more than 250K in the USA, and that may be the rub in determining what constitutes "who's really rich" and who's "upper" middle class.  

    The challenge for the east coast and the west coast is that a high concentration of people in that salary range live in those regions.  $250K is not the definition of "rich" but moreso "upper" middle class, for a family.

    Call many of those salary earners the "silent minority", maybe?   Take the college tuition issue as an example.    You don't qualify for financial aid, low-interest government loans, and other types of scholarships when you make 250K a year -- so you essentially pay *more* out of pocket and FULL tuition than people who make a fraction of what you make (NOTE: the kid has to be smart, too ...) because those lower-earners qualify for aid, scholarships and (again, the kids have to be smart ...)  even a free ride.    I've seen this many times.   Some of my brightest friends went to colleges where they got HUGE boosts from either low-interest govt. loans, scholarships, or even FULL RIDES because they were smart coupled with having lower-middle class (or below) earning parents.    I have a friend who got into Wellesley (not ONE DIME) vs.  Boston University (FULL RIDE).  Guess where she went?   I can cite many examples of this happening.   Education: Paid in Full, and it was almost free (there are really no completely free lunches  :)  )

    SO higher earners essentially get $crewed in that type of equation.    That's just one example, but I am sure you can think of more.   Still, there aren't many people who are feeling sorry for any family that hauls in $250K / year.  

    This may be why higher earners, who are "upper middle class" but not what you would define as "rich" feel like they are no better off than people who make a lot less money.   They are not "entitled" to the same "discounts" and therefore, feel they are paying a disproportionate amount of money into the system, be it education, taxes, etc., and in a way, I can understand it.  

    You have to be making well beyond 250K to be considered rich, unless you are a single, young, twenty-something miser who saves every dime and lives in his mama's basement.  

    One last thing --- it's also the ability to save out of your income that creates wealth.  It appears that the ability to save is almost non-existent for most Americans, and that is the reality.  Retirement is a scary, if not impossible prospect for far too many Americans.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jmel's comment:

     I hear you Kojak.  For the last 10 years it seems like I`ve had 2 overlaping in college.  Even when one of them chose a state school it still amounted to somewhere between 40-60k per year when 2 were in at the same time.  That`s after-tax money.  I`m with you.  A mortgage, car payment(s), insurance, tuition, and there`s nothing left.  Yet, you`re "rich", you`re "wealthy", and you need to pay your "fair share".I`m sick of hearing it. 

     

    Wealth is not a relative term insofar as the government is concerned, and I don't subscribe to it being relative, either.   Value systems are relative, not the money itself.  

    The data is crunched by the Census Bureau, and unfortunately, and while not entirely fair, they top off the earning rate at 250K; there is a very low percentage of people who earn more than 250K in the USA, and that may be the rub in determining what constitutes "who's really rich" and who's "upper" middle class.  

    The challenge for the east coast and the west coast is that a high concentration of people in that salary range live in those regions.  $250K is not the definition of "rich" but moreso "upper" middle class, for a family.

    Call many of those salary earners the "silent minority", maybe?   Take the college tuition issue as an example.    You don't qualify for financial aid, low-interest government loans, and other types of scholarships when you make 250K a year -- so you essentially pay *more* out of pocket and FULL tuition than people who make a fraction of what you make (NOTE: the kid has to be smart, too ...) because those lower-earners qualify for aid, scholarships and (again, the kids have to be smart ...)  even a free ride.    I've seen this many times.   Some of my brightest friends went to colleges where they got HUGE boosts from either low-interest govt. loans, scholarships, or even FULL RIDES because they were smart coupled with having lower-middle class (or below) earning parents.    I have a friend who got into Wellesley (not ONE DIME) vs.  Boston University (FULL RIDE).  Guess where she went?   I can cite many examples of this happening.   Education: Paid in Full, and it was almost free (there are really no completely free lunches  :)  )

    SO higher earners essentially get $crewed in that type of equation.    That's just one example, but I am sure you can think of more.   Still, there aren't many people who are feeling sorry for any family that hauls in $250K / year.  

    This may be why higher earners, who are "upper middle class" but not what you would define as "rich" feel like they are no better off than people who make a lot less money.   They are not "entitled" to the same "discounts" and therefore, feel they are paying a disproportionate amount of money into the system, be it education, taxes, etc., and in a way, I can understand it.  

    You have to be making well beyond 250K to be considered rich, unless you are a single, young, twenty-something miser who saves every dime and lives in his mama's basement.  

    One last thing --- it's also the ability to save out of your income that creates wealth.  It appears that the ability to save is almost non-existent for most Americans, and that is the reality.  Retirement is a scary, if not impossible prospect for far too many Americans.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Your last point is the key point.  Our government does not want us to save at this point.  That's part of the policy.  The money that we could save, if it was government policy, is now being sent to Washington.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    If you are a Democrat, anyone earning more than you is rich, and needs to be broken

     


    Blah blah blah.

    /Snore.

    [/QUOTE]

    snooze you lose

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wealth is not a relative term insofar as the government is concerned, and I don't subscribe to it being relative, either.   Value systems are relative, not the money itself.  

    The data is crunched by the Census Bureau, and unfortunately, and while not entirely fair, they top off the earning rate at 250K; there is a very low percentage of people who earn more than 250K in the USA, and that may be the rub in determining what constitutes "who's really rich" and who's "upper" middle class.  

    The challenge for the east coast and the west coast is that a high concentration of people in that salary range live in those regions.  $250K is not the definition of "rich" but moreso "upper" middle class, for a family.

    Call many of those salary earners the "silent minority", maybe?   Take the college tuition issue as an example.    You don't qualify for financial aid, low-interest government loans, and other types of scholarships when you make 250K a year -- so you essentially pay *more* out of pocket and FULL tuition than people who make a fraction of what you make (NOTE: the kid has to be smart, too ...) because those lower-earners qualify for aid, scholarships and (again, the kids have to be smart ...)  even a free ride.    I've seen this many times.   Some of my brightest friends went to colleges where they got HUGE boosts from either low-interest govt. loans, scholarships, or even FULL RIDES because they were smart coupled with having lower-middle class (or below) earning parents.    I have a friend who got into Wellesley (not ONE DIME) vs.  Boston University (FULL RIDE).  Guess where she went?   I can cite many examples of this happening.   Education: Paid in Full, and it was almost free (there are really no completely free lunches  :)  )

    SO higher earners essentially get $crewed in that type of equation.    That's just one example, but I am sure you can think of more.   Still, there aren't many people who are feeling sorry for any family that hauls in $250K / year.  

    This may be why higher earners, who are "upper middle class" but not what you would define as "rich" feel like they are no better off than people who make a lot less money.   They are not "entitled" to the same "discounts" and therefore, feel they are paying a disproportionate amount of money into the system, be it education, taxes, etc., and in a way, I can understand it.  

    You have to be making well beyond 250K to be considered rich, unless you are a single, young, twenty-something miser who saves every dime and lives in his mama's basement.  

    One last thing --- it's also the ability to save out of your income that creates wealth.  It appears that the ability to save is almost non-existent for most Americans, and that is the reality.  Retirement is a scary, if not impossible prospect for far too many Americans.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Your last point is the key point.  Our government does not want us to save at this point.  That's part of the policy.  The money that we could save, if it was government policy, is now being sent to Washington. [/QUOTE]

    Skeeter,

    Well, maybe this is the key point: how much can you or do you save?   It's not the amount of money you make, where you live, or if you have no kids, or 5 kids, if they are in college, working on the farm, or whatever.    The key question is,  "what are you able to save?"   That is what will make or break you.   

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

    I don't believe that the government "does not want us to save", as you seem to think, but the ability to save is not part of the conversation often enough.  

    I also agreed with you that 250K is "upper middle class" at this point in time, and not "rich" but again, your overall wealth is determined by your savings and assets, not by the amount of money you make.  When did "money management" change to being called "wealth management" -- must have been when the economy was prospering.  :)

    Interesting -- there was an article in the Globe not long about about college graduates and their ability to make a living ... you know the drill.   These new graduates think they should be making what is considered the median "middle class" salary, all alone, right out of college.   They need a sanity check.   One kid complained that she can't afford a manicure ... oh, you should have seen the comments following that; such sacrifices some kids have to make when their parents stop paying for the necessities of life, such as manicures.  =)

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    Looks like I am poor and I never knew it.

    I have my health, a steady fulltime job that pays my bills and leaves me with a little extra, a good sense of humor, I own a nice home ,in a nice neighborhood ,which will soon be paid for, and I am not jealous of people who have more than me. I am relativly happy with the things I've got.

    Actually, I am rich...it is a very relative term indeed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Looks like I am poor and I never knew it.

    I have my health, a steady fulltime job that pays my bills and leaves me with a little extra, a good sense of humor, I own a nice home ,in a nice neighborhood ,which will soon be paid for, and I am not jealous of people who have more than me. I am relativly happy with the things I've got.

    Actually, I am rich...it is a very relative term indeed.

    [/QUOTE]


    No it looks like you are richer and happier than most of us.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree with lower class citizens but don't buy it for mid and upper. I'm mid and have never had a problem saving. Reason being is I actually live within my means. People in mid and upper level incomes should have no problem saving provided they live responsibly. Can't afford something? Don't buy it....gasp!!! 

    [/QUOTE]

    I do agree with you up to a point. Some of us have saving instilled in us at a young age, and might even have been laughed at for being miserly by our own families  ... like me.  :)  

    I used to call my parents cheap (what kid didn't?) when they said "No, we're not buying that" but of course, those were the best lessons I ever learned.   And then it was, "well, get a job if you want it" -- so I did, from the time I could be hired to babysit, I had a job.   

    Living responsibly of course is part of the equation -- as I said, it should not be considered a 'sacrifice' to file and polish your own fingernails, or (gasp) bring your lunch to work rather than buy it every day.   There is a very warped sense of what is considered lavish to some,  what constitues "cutting back" and for some of us, something that never occured to us in the first place.  I do think it's more complicated, but there is no doubt that there are many Americans who are "cash poor" and part of this is their own doing.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Looks like I am poor and I never knew it.

    I have my health, a steady fulltime job that pays my bills and leaves me with a little extra, a good sense of humor, I own a nice home ,in a nice neighborhood ,which will soon be paid for, and I am not jealous of people who have more than me. I am relativly happy with the things I've got.

    Actually, I am rich...it is a very relative term indeed.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're talking personal values, not money.   And yes, you have excellent values.  

    You're a lovely person, down to earth, and appreciative of what you have.   You know how to be happy.    

    Now I will recite "The Desiderata" .... (and I do love it).   "Strive to be happy" does not have a thing to do with money, you know.  :)

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    My parents could barely afford college for me, but with two younger sisters, I decided to do it myself (stubbornly).  I left home after high school and worked for three years to earn my way through a public college, without which degree I would only be making half what I do now.

    The problem as I see it is not the wealth itself but the pathways available to obtain that wealth if one is willing to work for it.  Like it or not, the same opportunities are NOT available to everyone, and in a democracy, those paths need to be clear and unfettered.  The difference between a HS and college diploma in terms of lifetime earnings is too great to ignore.

    I am lucky in that I don't feel I am underpaid.  I make enough to maintain my lifestyle with a modest home, a few toys, a fair amount of leisure time and a little money stashed away.  But my wealth is not now nor ever has been the measure of my happiness.  As has been said, some of the best things in life are free (if you can enjoy them).

    Whether $250k is 'rich' or not is irrelevant given that people have different needs, even if their wants often overlap.  Food, shelter, health care, and education are the bedrocks of modern existence and should not be used as bargaining chips in a larger ideological fight.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree with lower class citizens but don't buy it for mid and upper. I'm mid and have never had a problem saving. Reason being is I actually live within my means. People in mid and upper level incomes should have no problem saving provided they live responsibly. Can't afford something? Don't buy it....gasp!!! 

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely agree!!!! I make far..far less than 250K and I have no problem saving because it is in my nature to be frugal. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. I don't pay for things on credit unless they are a legitimate need...not a just a desire. I bought a car that I could pay cash for..because I think having a car payment is the most foolish "investment' that one can make. I set up automatic savings and investment withdrawals..so I don't even see the money.

    One of the biggest problems with our economy is that it is consumer driven..people are encouraged to spend lots of money on things that they don't need nor can they really afford.

    One example..it's hard to buy the argument that our economy is in the tank when there are people lining up for hours to buy the latest Iphone..or the lastest pair of designer sneakers.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree with lower class citizens but don't buy it for mid and upper. I'm mid and have never had a problem saving. Reason being is I actually live within my means. People in mid and upper level incomes should have no problem saving provided they live responsibly. Can't afford something? Don't buy it....gasp!!! 

    [/QUOTE]


    so true.  I'm actually currently way below that level, after years of being way over that level, and week in, week out, I save money. My lifestyle is very middle class, by choice.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jmel's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Asking you guys.    I say no.

     

    "About 60 percent of voters said in exit polls Tuesday that taxes should increase, either for everyone or those making over $250,000. Left unsaid by Obama was that even more voters opposed raising taxes to help cut the deficit."

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I say the upper rates should drift back to where they were under Clinton. The supply side argument is false, and I do not see what is supposedly so wrong with paying higher rates if you make more money. But, also couple that with meaningful cuts that do not entirely eviscerate domestic programs.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The supply side argumen is notfalse, but that aside, how is it moral?  I see tapping "the rich" just because you can to be the least moral decision you coud make on taxation.  When we don't share the burden (somewhat) evenly, that's immoral.

    That some of the rich ignore their obligation to the poor and needy does not mean government should step in and mandate it via taxation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree with lower class citizens but don't buy it for mid and upper. I'm mid and have never had a problem saving. Reason being is I actually live within my means. People in mid and upper level incomes should have no problem saving provided they live responsibly. Can't afford something? Don't buy it....gasp!!! 

    [/QUOTE]

    I do agree with you up to a point. Some of us have saving instilled in us at a young age, and might even have been laughed at for being miserly by our own families  ... like me.  :)  

    I used to call my parents cheap (what kid didn't?) when they said "No, we're not buying that" but of course, those were the best lessons I ever learned.   And then it was, "well, get a job if you want it" -- so I did, from the time I could be hired to babysit, I had a job.   

    Living responsibly of course is part of the equation -- as I said, it should not be considered a 'sacrifice' to file and polish your own fingernails, or (gasp) bring your lunch to work rather than buy it every day.   There is a very warped sense of what is considered lavish to some,  what constitues "cutting back" and for some of us, something that never occured to us in the first place.  I do think it's more complicated, but there is no doubt that there are many Americans who are "cash poor" and part of this is their own doing.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Don't forget to take 401Ks into consideration when addressing savings.  I think 401Ks have replaced the old savings account as the primary way people save money.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    And most Americans in the low - mid - upper middle class do not have the ability to save.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree with lower class citizens but don't buy it for mid and upper. I'm mid and have never had a problem saving. Reason being is I actually live within my means. People in mid and upper level incomes should have no problem saving provided they live responsibly. Can't afford something? Don't buy it....gasp!!! 

    [/QUOTE]

    I do agree with you up to a point. Some of us have saving instilled in us at a young age, and might even have been laughed at for being miserly by our own families  ... like me.  :)  

    I used to call my parents cheap (what kid didn't?) when they said "No, we're not buying that" but of course, those were the best lessons I ever learned.   And then it was, "well, get a job if you want it" -- so I did, from the time I could be hired to babysit, I had a job.   

    Living responsibly of course is part of the equation -- as I said, it should not be considered a 'sacrifice' to file and polish your own fingernails, or (gasp) bring your lunch to work rather than buy it every day.   There is a very warped sense of what is considered lavish to some,  what constitues "cutting back" and for some of us, something that never occured to us in the first place.  I do think it's more complicated, but there is no doubt that there are many Americans who are "cash poor" and part of this is their own doing.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Don't forget to take 401Ks into consideration when addressing savings.  I think 401Ks have replaced the old savings account as the primary way people save money.

    [/QUOTE]


    The average 401K balance has declinded 25% under Obama to $50,000.

    That's going in the wrong direction.

    But no worries.  the government will simply take the 401K's from those who are saving and give it to those who haven't.  Think I'm kidding?  Do a little research.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    I don't get why college costs $50-$60K.  I'd be interested in seeing how the tuition gets spent.

    I agree $250K is far from millionaire status.  But it's more than 3x the median household income of the region.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Is $250K Rich?

    Every single working citizen of the USA will have less take home pay in January thanks to dems refusing to not raise the rates back to what they were before Bush!!!

     

     
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