Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    let's start caling it a "Freedom Wash" - that'll keep it from sounding scary
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    The U.S. military waterboards hundreds of our own soldiers every year.
    Posted by BobinVa



    and this is proof of what, exactly?
     
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    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Now, in hindsight years later, SOME teabaggers want to second guess and destroy the fundamental fabric on which this country is based

    this from a liberal who agrees with the CIC that Constitution is a hindrance to the progress of America...

    the irony is incredible.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Show me the birth cert and you will have won this debate. It's that easy. I'll eat crow when you submit it as evidence.

    Tick tock...tick tock.

    The insults and denial argument come easy for morons like yourself especially when you've had so many losses. We understand though. You have to post something when facts and evidence are nonexistant.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    only an idiot would continue this conversation with you

    you're doing great! Keep it up.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    The U.S. military waterboards hundreds of our own soldiers every year.  It is part of the conditioning Special Forces troops undergo to prepare for battle and the possibility of capture by the enemy. It is unpleasant. It should not be used without cause. But the suspects survives with no after affects. Waterboarding is not torture.
    Posted by BobinVa


    That's the stupidest argument yet.
    I went through that SERE training and it's not torture when you know the people doing it are on your side. You know ahead of time what the parameters are and that these are your instructors not the enemy.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    The U.S. military waterboards hundreds of our own soldiers every year.  It is part of the conditioning Special Forces troops undergo to prepare for battle and the possibility of capture by the enemy. It is unpleasant. It should not be used without cause. But the suspects survives with no after affects. Waterboarding is not torture.
    Posted by BobinVa


    Do you believe our enemies are justified to use the same technique on U.S. soldiers?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    Show me the birth cert and you will have won this debate. It's that easy. I'll eat crow when you submit it as evidence. Tick tock...tick tock. The insults and denial argument come easy for morons like yourself especially when you've had so many losses. We understand though. You have to post something when facts and evidence are nonexistant.
    Posted by s0ftsquash


    I know this is an exercise in futility as the rabid wingnuts will come up with some stupid argument like it says 'Cerificate of Live Birth' not birth certificate etc.
    I'd like to believe in the general intelligence of Americans so here goes.

    http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    The U.S. military waterboards hundreds of our own soldiers every year.  It is part of the conditioning Special Forces troops undergo to prepare for battle and the possibility of capture by the enemy. It is unpleasant. It should not be used without cause. But the suspects survives with no after affects. Waterboarding is not torture.
    Posted by BobinVa


    That's like saying that an actor who plays Ted Bundy in a movie is as dangerous as the real thing. Give me a break.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state : Waterboarding is not torture. It is not debateable. I have proclaimed it thus. Therefore America is not a torture state.
    Posted by Newtster


    So you say it's not against the law. Gov. George W. Bush would have to disagree.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state : Waterboarding is not torture. It is not debateable. I have proclaimed it thus. Therefore America is not a torture state.
    Posted by Newtster


    You're up against some very knowledegable people who have decades of service.
    But I'm sure your vast knowledge of the subject far outweighs any of the critics.
    Let me ask, have you ever been waterboarded? No? So on what evidence are you basing your opinion?

    Many former senior Bush administration officials, on the other hand, have seriously questioned or directly challenged the legality of waterboarding. These include former State Department Counselor Philip Zelikow,[53][54] former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage,[55] former Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge,[56] former head of the Office of Legal Counsel Jack Goldsmith,[57] General David Petraeus,[58] General Ricardo Sanchez,[59] FBI Director Robert Mueller,[60] and former Convening Authority for the Guantanamo military commissions Susan J. Crawford.[61]

    During his tenure as head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel in 2003-2004, Jack Goldsmith put a halt to the use of waterboarding as an interrogation technique because of serious concern over its legality, but Goldsmith's order was quickly reversed by others within the Bush administration.[57][62]

    The Republican 2008 candidate for president, Senator John McCain, has said unequivocally that he considers waterboarding to be torture.[63] 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    It is so much fun watching you libertards dwell in the past while Obama wipes out the country.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state : you can't volunteer for something and call it torture meanwhile, the closest you've ever gotten to Navy Seal training was watching GI Jane, internet tough guy
    Posted by Hansonbrother


    Chief was in the military so he got a hell of a lot closer to Navy Seal training than you ever have. Or is this when you tell us all you were a special forces dynamo Navy Seal-Green Beret-Army Ranger-Marine Recon super-duper warrior???
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanCP. Show DanCP's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Meet, for example, retired Air Force Col. John Rothrock, who, as a young captain, headed a combat interrogation team in Vietnam. More than once he was faced with a ticking time-bomb scenario: a captured Vietcong guerrilla who knew of plans to kill Americans. What was done in such cases was "not nice," he says. "But we did not physically abuse them." Rothrock used psychology, the shock of capture and of the unexpected. Once, he let a prisoner see a wounded comrade die. Yet -- as he remembers saying to the "desperate and honorable officers" who wanted him to move faster -- "if I take a Bunsen burner to the guy's genitals, he's going to tell you just about anything," which would be pointless. Rothrock, who is no squishy liberal, says that he doesn't know "any professional intelligence officers of my generation who would think this is a good idea."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html

    Or listen to Army Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq. Aside from its immorality and its illegality, says Herrington, torture is simply "not a good way to get information." In his experience, nine out of 10 people can be persuaded to talk with no "stress methods" at all, let alone cruel and unusual ones. Asked whether that would be true of religiously motivated fanatics, he says that the "batting average" might be lower: "perhaps six out of ten." And if you beat up the remaining four? "They'll just tell you anything to get you to stop."

    Worse, you'll have the other side effects of torture. It "endangers our soldiers on the battlefield by encouraging reciprocity." It does "damage to our country's image" and undermines our credibility in Iraq. That, in the long run, outweighs any theoretical benefit. Herrington's confidential Pentagon report, which he won't discuss but which was leaked to The Post a month ago, goes farther. In that document, he warned that members of an elite military and CIA task force were abusing detainees in Iraq, that their activities could be "making gratuitous enemies" and that prisoner abuse "is counterproductive to the Coalition's efforts to win the cooperation of the Iraqi citizenry." Far from rescuing Americans, in other words, the use of "special methods" might help explain why the war is going so badly.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state : First, how do YOU know all these gitmo detainees are guilty? Because your gov't is never wrong? Ya right, like they were so sure Iraq had WMD. Ooops. If they're all guilty why did Bush/Cheney release 520 of them without so much as a hearing or trial? It's stupid wingnuts like you who think military action is the solution to everything. I spent 9 yrs in various spec ops and got my a_$$ shot twice to keep my country safe, including your lily white behind. There's a reason we have different spec ops units. It's not all Rambo stuff that gives you wingnuts a wet dream. Alot of the things Green Berets do is hearts and minds stuff, got nothing to do with combat. And any idiot who wants to claim their 'ideology' is what keeps us more safe than the other guys is a moron and probably has never seen a lick of combat. It makes me laugh how all you neo-con wingnuts talk so tough but probably never seen a day of service or if you did never been in combat. Only lily whites or REMFs think war is 'cool' or 'tough'. Freakin' cowards who want everyone else to do the dirty work and sit back and claim credit for it through their ideology. Pathetic.
    Posted by 12angrymen
      MY GOODNESS......  WHATS IN THAT LIBERAL JUICE THAT YOU ARE DRINKING ????    OUT THERE FOR SURE, LONG GONE AND HARD TO FINE. PLEASE COME IN FROM OUT OF THE RAIN !!!!!!!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 140dBA. Show 140dBA's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Torture is listening to Janeane Garofalo, Keith Olberman or Rosie O'Donnel whine about how bad America is.

    I would love to see them dropped off in Waziristan. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    Torture is listening to Janeane Garofalo, Keith Olberman or Rosie O'Donnel whine about how bad America is. I would love to see them dropped off in Waziristan. 
    Posted by 140dBA
       THANK YOU, AND THE FREE WORLD THANKS YOU !!!!!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    the free world? The one where you ship people who disagree with you out of the country?

    you guys can't even go two paragraphs without contradicting yourselves
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 140dBA. Show 140dBA's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Fascism?  Me?  You got the wrong guy.  I think mandatory social security, the government takeover of healthcare, the EPA and the IRS are fascists.  I just want to keep more of what I earn and be left alone. 

    The progressive/socialist movement are the fascists, or more appropriately, domestic enemies of the Constitution.  Garofalo, Olberman et al fit this profile.  It's possible you do as well.

    How is obama defending the rights of the individual? Does he care? 

    And let's not forget "flag@whitehouse.gov", or the fact the US Government is about to make health care insurance mandatory, for your own good of course.

    Setting up a government snitch line and the government forcing you to buy health insurance are elements of fascism, or at least totalitarianism.  

    Off color jokes are not. 

     






     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanCP. Show DanCP's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Is the complete confusion on the part of many right wingers between fascism/socialism a Glenn Beck product, or does it predate him?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    First, how do YOU know all these gitmo detainees are guilty? I don't. We detain people we SUSPECT or WITNESS to have committed crimes. Hence a follow-on hearing or trial.
    Because your gov't is never wrong? Hell NO!! Especially when you consider the one we have in place.
    Ya right, like they were so sure Iraq had WMD. Ooops. Thats been argued ad nauseum here. You lose on that battle too.
    If they're all guilty why did Bush/Cheney release 520 of them without so much as a hearing or trial? Go back to your first question. I think you already know the answer sparky. Nice try with the fodder tho.
    It's stupid wingnuts like you who think military action is the solution to everything. Not at all. But you'd be stupid if your don't recognize that some people don't understand when you kiss their as5 and try to appease them.(current admin) Killing them is the only solution. ie modern day radical extremists
    I spent 9 yrs in various spec ops and got my a_$$ shot twice to keep my country safe, including your lily white behind. There's a reason we have different spec ops units. Your preaching to the choir. I've been on the post 9/11 battlefield doing special ops preceded by 12 years Infantry.
    It's not all Rambo stuff that gives you wingnuts a wet dream. Alot of the things Green Berets do is hearts and minds stuff, got nothing to do with combat. Hence the term "Special Ops".
    And any idiot who wants to claim their 'ideology' is what keeps us more safe than the other guys is a moron and probably has never seen a lick of combat. Anytime you wanna compare 201 files, 314's, Campaign Medals, over a beer at the VFW. Take a deep breath and reread my post. The "jihadists" are our enemy. There is no amount of winning hearts and minds that will make them our buddies.
    It makes me laugh how all you neo-con wingnuts talk so tough but probably never seen a day of service or if you did never been in combat. 27 years enough? OEF tours enough?
    Only lily whites or REMFs think war is 'cool' or 'tough'. Freakin' cowards who want everyone else to do the dirty work and sit back and claim credit for it through their ideology. Pathetic. I was in a group of 200 that went outside the wire regularly while the other 3000 hung out on the FOB. It sucked, yes, but we were the ones who got the work done. Frustrating? Hell yes. I was involved in shuras, key leader engagements, HA drops...talked to a lot of locals. The friendliest tribal elder still believes we are the infidel. He won't tell you to your face, but it's a fact.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    First, how do YOU know all these gitmo detainees are guilty? I don't. We detain people we SUSPECT or WITNESS to have committed crimes. Hence a follow-on hearing or trial.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From your post:
     Gitmo is probably full of innocent victims of bad intel, right? Would the terrorist be in custody had we not caught him doing something like constructing and placing IED's, engaging in combat against friendly forces, conspiring to commit violent acts...selling poppy at the bazaar...

    Sounds like judge, jury and executioner to me.
     
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