Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Because your gov't is never wrong? Hell NO!! Especially when you consider the one we have in place.
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    As opposed to the last admin that started the Iraq war.
    Gen Shinshecki, Chairman JCS when the war was being planned recommended at least 250,000 troops would be necessary. What did Bush do, fired him. What happened to listening to your commanders? Bush/Chenney/Rumsfeld threw away the Powell doctrine of combat. The only successful strategy this country has had in the last 50 yrs and look where it got us. A drawn out guerrilla war. Good job!
    Not to mention all the remarks that were totally wrong:
    'The deadenders..." Democracy isn't pretty..."
    Ya those idiots know how to run a war.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Ya right, like they were so sure Iraq had WMD. Ooops. Thats been argued ad nauseum here. You lose on that battle too.
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    You've got that bass ackwards, you lose that battle, unless they've found some WMD I didn't hear about.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    If they're all guilty why did Bush/Cheney release 520 of them without so much as a hearing or trial? Go back to your first question. I think you already know the answer sparky. Nice try with the fodder tho
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    Go back to your quote, you say they're there for a reason. What's was the reason, vacation?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    Ya right, like they were so sure Iraq had WMD. Ooops. Thats been argued ad nauseum here. You lose on that battle too.
    Posted by s0ftsquash


    BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    It's stupid wingnuts like you who think military action is the solution to everything. Not at all. But you'd be stupid if your don't recognize that some people don't understand when you kiss their as5 and try to appease them.(current admin) Killing them is the only solution. ie modern day radical extremists
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    I'm sure you have a bunch of examples to prove your point, right.
    You know stuff like quotes etc. not just your ideological opinion of the current admin.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    I spent 9 yrs in various spec ops and got my a_$$ shot twice to keep my country safe, including your lily white behind. There's a reason we have different spec ops units. Your preaching to the choir. I've been on the post 9/11 battlefield doing special ops preceded by 12 years Infantry.
    It's not all Rambo stuff that gives you wingnuts a wet dream. Alot of the things Green Berets do is hearts and minds stuff, got nothing to do with combat. Hence the term "Special Ops".
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    Cheers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    And any idiot who wants to claim their 'ideology' is what keeps us more safe than the other guys is a moron and probably has never seen a lick of combat. Anytime you wanna compare 201 files, 314's, Campaign Medals, over a beer at the VFW. Take a deep breath and reread my post. The "jihadists" are our enemy. There is no amount of winning hearts and minds that will make them our buddies.
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    So that whole Sunni Awakening and Sons of Iraq thing in Anbar province didn't happen? And I guess we just pay them to be our enemy.

    Beers sounds good
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    It makes me laugh how all you neo-con wingnuts talk so tough but probably never seen a day of service or if you did never been in combat. 27 years enough? OEF tours enough?
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    Again, cheers,
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Only lily whites or REMFs think war is 'cool' or 'tough'. Freakin' cowards who want everyone else to do the dirty work and sit back and claim credit for it through their ideology. Pathetic. I was in a group of 200 that went outside the wire regularly while the other 3000 hung out on the FOB. It sucked, yes, but we were the ones who got the work done. Frustrating? Hell yes. I was involved in shuras, key leader engagements, HA drops...talked to a lot of locals. The friendliest tribal elder still believes we are the infidel. He won't tell you to your face, but it's a fact.
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    The purpose is not to convince them we're not infidels, that will never happen. The stategy is to convince them we're not the enemy. Two very different things.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state


    The manual codifies an important lesson of insurgencies: it takes more than the military to win. "There are more than just lethal operations involved in a counterinsurgency campaign," said Conrad Crane, director of the U.S. Army Military History Institute, in Carlisle, Pa., and one of the leaders of the effort.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    Fascism?  Me?  You got the wrong guy.  I think mandatory social security, the government takeover of healthcare, the EPA and the IRS are fascists.  I just want to keep more of what I earn and be left alone.  The progressive/socialist movement are the fascists, or more appropriately, domestic enemies of the Constitution.  Garofalo, Olberman et al fit this profile.  It's possible you do as well. How is obama defending the rights of the individual? Does he care?  And let's not forget "flag@whitehouse.gov", or the fact the US Government is about to make health care insurance mandatory, for your own good of course. Setting up a government snitch line and the government forcing you to buy health insurance are elements of fascism, or at least totalitarianism.   Off color jokes are not.   
    Posted by 140dBA


    You think progressivism. socialism, fascism and totalitarianism are all the same thing...  Wow.  Have you read a book?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 140dBA. Show 140dBA's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    From my perspective, yes, there are many overlapping similarities.  If you look at purely the textbook definition, than of course, there are notable differences.

    All are instruments that seek to destroy the rights of the individual to benefit the state. 

    Your utopia is my hell. 
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Sounds like judge, jury and executioner to me.
    Just making an assumption from the galleries. How ever they earned their ticket to Gitmo, they'll all get due process.
    As opposed to the last admin that started the Iraq war
    It's always the LAST admin. In case you haven't been watching the CURRENT admin, it adopting the same policies from the LAST admin. It may have a different suit on, but if it looks like a duck...
    The only successful strategy this country has had in the last 50 yrs and look where it got us. A drawn out guerrilla war.
    You b1tch about getting into the war then complain about how it's strategized. It's safe to assume that wars over the past 200 years where the US has been involved have been guerrilla wars...linear or non-linear. It's unfortunate that politics has a part in any war.
    unless they've found some WMD I didn't hear about
    Let's compare it to me giving you a 3 month warning that I'm bringing the cops to your house to take away the marijuana plants you have growing in your basement. Will the plants be there when we show up at your door? If not, then your smart enough to be President of Iraq.
    Go back to your quote, you say they're there for a reason. What's was the reason, vacation?
    "We detain people we SUSPECT or WITNESS to have committed crimes". Shall we go for a 3rd time in this post?
    I'm sure you have a bunch of examples to prove your point, right.
    You know stuff like quotes etc. not just your ideological opinion of the current admin.
    For starters:
    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2068
    http://justwars.org/2009/07/30/the-art-of-appeasement/
    http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2010/02/iran-advancing-toward-armageddon-as.html
    Bottom line, appeasment doesnt work with the current enemy. Neither does trying to buy or win their hearts and minds. 
    So that whole Sunni Awakening and Sons of Iraq thing in Anbar province didn't happen? And I guess we just pay them to be our enemy.
    If I'm not mistaken, that was us training and funding locals to provide their own security forces. I don't see the correlation unless your blasting the expected fact that insurgents will/attempt to embed into these forces.
    The purpose is not to convince them we're not infidels, that will never happen. Agreed. Its in their mindset. Ingrained since they were born.
    The stategy is to convince them we're not the enemy. Two very different things. Convince the local populace, yes The extremists could care less. In the process of winning the hearts and minds of the LOCAL POPULACE (minus the extremists) we shovel millions of dollars in reconstruction, education, etc., with the expectation we'll get intel, info, strategic jump off point for a war across the border.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    [QUOTE Torture would be something you would not do even if the torture meant liberating your loved one from immediate harm. Would you not pull the fingernail of a person that could do that?
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]


    this is the same stupid argument you tried the last time. If someone's loved one was in harm's way, you're not going to make a rational decision. You or I would gladly give our OWN lives to save a loved one...would you give your OWN life to save someone else?

    stop with that moronic crap

    Who would make policy decisions based on idiocy like this?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansonbrother. Show Hansonbrother's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state:
    You claim things like loud music, sleep deprevation, isolation, koran-peeing, etc. are "tantamount to torture" and then claim America is a torture state. And now we have a President that is womanly as you too. In case you didn't notice, I was parroting Hansonbrother in his declaration that waterboarding is torture therefore American is a torture state.
    Posted by Newtster


    I said waterboarding was torture. I didn't say anything about sleep deprevation, isolation or any of that other stuff

    if it's so important for you to win an internet argument that you have to make stuff up that I said, maybe you need to get a life outside of the internet. Badly.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    "if it's so important for you to win an internet argument that you have to make stuff up that I said, maybe you need to get a life outside of the internet. Badly."


    Hahahahahahaha...if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Has to be the most delusional puppet on this board.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Sounds like judge, jury and executioner to me.
    Just making an assumption from the galleries. How ever they earned their ticket to Gitmo, they'll all get due process.
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    You lose just on the cop out factor on that answer.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    As opposed to the last admin that started the Iraq war
    It's always the LAST admin. In case you haven't been watching the CURRENT admin, it adopting the same policies from the LAST admin. It may have a different suit on, but if it looks like a duck...
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    I know your smarter than that. The current policies are to put the force necessary into Afghanistan to actually win the war.
    Here's a question for you.
    Bush said that Afghanistan was critical to our national security. If it was why did he neglect it? What was the most amount of resources, boots on the ground , he devoted to that fight? 17,000 troops for the whole country. Does that sound like a critical mission to you. If you say yes then I know your an ideologue and not a rational person.
    Compare that to the number of troops this admin put into Afghanistan. 60,000. Does that sound like someone who wants to win the war?
    So ya, if you want to wrap yourself in that duck suit, QUACK. MOTHER QUACK.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    The only successful strategy this country has had in the last 50 yrs and look where it got us. A drawn out guerrilla war.
    You b1tch about getting into the war then complain about how it's strategized. It's safe to assume that wars over the past 200 years where the US has been involved have been guerrilla wars...linear or non-linear. It's unfortunate that politics has a part in any war.
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    Allright,  I get it, your a partisan punk who spouts the party line and doesn't actually read or think about the other postion. That's your perogative.
    What I said was, if your going to get into a war, do it with a winning strategy. Bush fired the Chief of Staff that had a winning strategy. The only winning strategy we've had in the last 50 years was the Powell stratgey of superior force, overwhelming presence and a defined exit stratgey.
    So now your some kind of military genius that has some better strategy?
    And no, the last 200 years have had numerous asymetric and nonlinear fights. You need to brush up on your history.
    Politics is the only thing that can START a war, so if you want to defend the politics of those who get us into wars then you should be a poltitician not a soldier.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    unless they've found some WMD I didn't hear about
    Let's compare it to me giving you a 3 month warning that I'm bringing the cops to your house to take away the marijuana plants you have growing in your basement. Will the plants be there when we show up at your door? If not, then your smart enough to be President of Iraq.

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    Please, I'm going to give you the benefit of ignorance on that one.
    If you've ever been on a LRS mission then you would know that a satelite can give you just about any info you need down to the number of vehicles and where they're heading. All you have to do is intercept them at any border crossing.
    So your saying that we track our own citizens better than we did Saddam?
    That must sound stupid even to you.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Go back to your quote, you say they're there for a reason. What's was the reason, vacation?
    "We detain people we SUSPECT or WITNESS to have committed crimes". Shall we go for a 3rd time in this post?
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    All of those suspects were not captured by us moron, that's why they were released, we didn't have a shred of evidence other than the fact we paid people for bodies, not terrorists.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    I'm sure you have a bunch of examples to prove your point, right.
    You know stuff like quotes etc. not just your ideological opinion of the current admin.
    For starters:
    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2068
    http://justwars.org/2009/07/30/the-art-of-appeasement/
    http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2010/02/iran-advancing-toward-armageddon-as.html
    Bottom line, appeasment doesnt work with the current enemy. Neither does trying to buy or win their hearts and minds. 
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    Dude are you for real? No really are you for real?
    You cite the Spanish involvement in the Iraq war as an example?
    And then you go on to the Cuban Missile Crisis?
    And finish with a ridiculous piece from China Confidential about the "Jewish State" and the "U.S Homeland"?
    Man your an idiot. Do you think that the US would be in this position militarly in Iraq right now if we didn't 'appease' the Sunni in Anbar?
    Your a MORON if you say other wise. And you know what, I'll meet you at any VFW to see your 201. I can't believe they'd let someone into specops with your kind of ignorance.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    Torture would be something you would not do even if the torture meant liberating your loved one from immediate harm. Would you not pull the fingernail of a person that could do that?
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    Do YOU know for certain that by ripping off his fingernails you will get the truth?
    If you say yes then your lying. No one knows what people will say under torture.
     
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