Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    Stil trying to figure out why the liberals think this is such a wicked awesome idea.  Sounds kinda really stupid and, well, uninformed.

    I guess on this case, loopholes are good.  Not so much for other issues, like evil rich people and their tax loopholes.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Stil trying to figure out why the liberals think this is such a wicked awesome idea.

     

    Did anyone say that here? Did anyone, other than Krugman, say that?




    Krugman said it, Jerry Nadler, some others, said it.  Again, it is a pretty narrow and stupid rule you have there to limit the use of the term "liberals" to only those who post here in a specifc thread. 

    Besides, most liberals have no idea that this is a group of millionaires and billionaires (i.e. politicians) trying to do something that devalues their constituents savings so they can keep the spending party going.  They are trying to hammer us.  Hammer us, I tell you, to steal the paychecks that the rest of us earned.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Stil trying to figure out why the liberals think this is such a wicked awesome idea.

     

    Did anyone say that here? Did anyone, other than Krugman, say that?

     




    Krugman said it, Jerry Nadler, some others, said it.  Again, it is a pretty narrow and stupid rule you have there to limit the use of the term "liberals" to only those who post here in a specifc thread. 

     

    Besides, most liberals have no idea that this is a group of millionaires and billionaires (i.e. politicians) trying to do something that devalues their constituents savings so they can keep the spending party going.  They are trying to hammer us.  Hammer us, I tell you, to steal the paychecks that the rest of us earned.

     

     



    I don't think anybody thinks it's a good idea - I think Krugman's point is that if Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling as a negotiating tactic, then there is a way for the administration to do something legally as equally ridiculous to take the initial idiocy off the table.

    If the Republicans call the bluff, mint the coin, deposit it in the treasury and pay it back with the sale of treasury bonds, effectively just borrowing more money without technically raising the debt limit.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dcr400m. Show dcr400m's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    Slomag is right - see you can thank Mike Castle (kicked out by suspected "witch" Christine O' Donnell) during the Reagan days so its not a "Librul" idea -But both Stewart and Krugman are right - Krugman sees the neat process (but limited) to delay the country's default and an economist sees that as Armegeddon so yeah I can see him calling on it as Slogmag said - a way to get around stupid GOP intransigence.

    Stewart was lasy because he didn't get any of the real reasons - Stewart likes to joke like a fox so we know he's not stupid but the laugh opportunities got the best of him....which i don't think is all that big a deal....Krugman is naturally irascible so no surprise.

    Obama is doing the right thing by just saying no negotiation because the GOP desperately wants him to take the "gimmick" coin approach or invoke the constitutional crisis and eventual visit to SCOTUS - Either gimmick forces Obama to defend his actions - so circus hearings, threats of impeachment, burial of GOP-GLEEFUL lawsuits - it will drain even more time of the presidency already being gummed up but POS GOP and Tea party terrorists

    Obama stans his ground he wins, he wavers here or in the sequester - he's screwed

    it's that simple...for once - Maybe you BDC RWNJ and resident false moderate can figure it out


    BTW: Your lovely GOP senators are wavering correctly and even the Koch-suckers in the House who feed at the Koch Bros. cash trogh have gotten orders to back off on this...so drama is fading and GOP is retreating to the Sequester to make their stand of intransigence and hostage taking - so a shutdown is the last thing the GOP can challenge and we know from Newt(not ster) that that will go BADLY with American people.

     

    In response to slomag's comment:



    I don't think anybody thinks it's a good idea - I think Krugman's point is that if Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling as a negotiating tactic, then there is a way for the administration to do something legally as equally ridiculous to take the initial idiocy off the table.

     

    If the Republicans call the bluff, mint the coin, deposit it in the treasury and pay it back with the sale of treasury bonds, effectively just borrowing more money without technically raising the debt limit.

     




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    Krugman: “Yes, it’s a comedy show — but the jokes are supposed to be (and usually are) knowing jokes...."

    "knowing jokes"? Of course Krugman means jokes at Republicans' expense, which constitute 90-95% of Stewart's material.

    Can you imagine a Republican pushing back at Jon Stewart or Colbert in this way?

    They would be eviscerated as humorless pompous egotistical blowhards...

    Speaking of which, Paul Krugman, who was paid big money as an "Enron consultant" just before the Enron scandal, is a humorless pompous egotistical blowhard.

     



    Are you sure you're not looking in the mirror when you write this stuff?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    if Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling as a negotiating tactic, then there is a way for the administration to do something legally as equally ridiculous to take the initial idiocy off the table.

     


    Exactly. If Cantor and his fellow swine are serious about causing a global economic collapse by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay, then just about every other idea is less ridiculous.

    The coin is a terrible idea.

    Default is a cataclysmically awful idea.

     

     

    There's a saying: Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  Congressional scum are taking it to a whole new level.



    The only way we have the global collapse is if both sides stay entrenched; why is one side of the issue more virtuous then the other?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    why is one side of the issue more virtuous then the other?



    Because one is taking the far more dangerous side of the issue. As explained:

     

     

    If Cantor and his fellow swine are serious about causing a global economic collapse by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay, then just about every other idea is less ridiculous.

    The coin is a terrible idea.

    Default is a cataclysmically awful idea.



    Cantor is not talking about collapse, Obama is.

    You lefties don't seem to understand that there is PLENTY OF MONEY TO PAY OUR DEBT SERVICE.

    Obama, as the executive, is signallying he intends NOT TO PAY IT.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Krugman said it, Jerry Nadler .

     

    Two people is all liberals to you? Do another lap around the cesspool why don't you?



    These are examples. Didn't know I had to list every single liberal pushing this idea.

    Articles mention more liberal people, and conservative people, who have been invovled in the discussion.

    Other than that, grow up.  You are really boring and annoying at the same time.

     

    Talking to you is like talking to a four year old.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    .....If Cantor and his fellow swine are serious about causing a global economic collapse by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay, then just about every other idea is less ridiculous.

    There's a saying: Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  Congressional scum are taking it to a whole new level.

    Which "Congressional scum" said this in 2006?

    “Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I don't think anybody thinks it's a good idea - I think Krugman's point is that if Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling as a negotiating tactic, then there is a way for the administration to do something legally as equally ridiculous to take the initial idiocy off the table.

     

    If the Republicans call the bluff, mint the coin, deposit it in the treasury and pay it back with the sale of treasury bonds, effectively just borrowing more money without technically raising the debt limit.

     




    Assuming Obama does mint the magic $1 Trillion coin and bypasses the congress/debt ceiling issue, where does that leave us?

    Obama refuses to negotiate over the debt ceiling.

    The congress refuses to increase the debt ceiling.

    Obama mints the $1 trillion coin to bypass the debt ceiling.

    And then what?  The problem is suddenly gone away? Obama "wins" something here? 

    What happens when Congress decides to call Obama's bluff in return and refuses to pass another CRA and the Federal government shuts down on April 1st?  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    hands off the almighty Krugman

     

    If telling him he's wrong and calling his idea a "f**king stupid idea" is hands off to you, then what's a tough media? Should he just break out an AR-15 and vaporize the guy's skull?
     In order to be fair and balanced?

     

     

     

    " and Obambi!"

    Stewart and Colbert regularly mock Obama.

    What is "regularly" ? And what level of venom and snark do they take? They dont "mock" Obama , they skim the surface, usually surface mild and milktoast, never harshly digging at the basic tenets of liberals....

    Stewart is a clever comedian, but to claim he is somehow an intellectual and an important balanced political voice is...funny.

    Greg Gutfield on Stewart:

    "He’s unaware of his liberalism because he’s soaking in it...... The gist of The Daily Show is making jokes about people the writers disagree with. Stewart knows his writers belong to a labor pool that is decidedly liberal, and the hardest thing about that pool isn’t swimming in it, but getting out. Once you’re out, goodbye applause.”

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to Jim-in-Littleton's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

    I don't think anybody thinks it's a good idea - I think Krugman's point is that if Republicans are going to use the debt ceiling as a negotiating tactic, then there is a way for the administration to do something legally as equally ridiculous to take the initial idiocy off the table.

     

    If the Republicans call the bluff, mint the coin, deposit it in the treasury and pay it back with the sale of treasury bonds, effectively just borrowing more money without technically raising the debt limit.

     

     




     

    Assuming Obama does mint the magic $1 Trillion coin and bypasses the congress/debt ceiling issue, where does that leave us?

    Obama refuses to negotiate over the debt ceiling.

    The congress refuses to increase the debt ceiling.

    Obama mints the $1 trillion coin to bypass the debt ceiling.

    And then what?  The problem is suddenly gone away? Obama "wins" something here? 

    What happens when Congress decides to call Obama's bluff in return and refuses to pass another CRA and the Federal government shuts down on April 1st?  



    If Obama mints a trillion dollar coin, he doesn't have to hear about the debt ceiling for another year.  

    If the government shuts down, coin or not, Republicans will be blamed and the Dems will easily regain control of the house in 2014.

    Congress appropriated every cent of our debt - if congressional Republicans have cuts in mind, let them propose them and let them stand for a vote on their own merits. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:

    hands off the almighty Krugman

     

    If telling him he's wrong and calling his idea a "f**king stupid idea" is hands off to you, then what's a tough media? Should he just break out an AR-15 and vaporize the guy's skull?
     In order to be fair and balanced?

     

     

     

    " and Obambi!"

    Stewart and Colbert regularly mock Obama.

     

     

    What is "regularly" ? And what level of venom and snark do they take? They dont "mock" Obama , they skim the surface, usually surface mild and milktoast, never harshly digging at the basic tenets of liberals....

    Stewart is a clever comedian, but to claim he is somehow an intellectual and an important balanced political voice is...funny.

    Greg Gutfield on Stewart:

    "He’s unaware of his liberalism because he’s soaking in it...... The gist of The Daily Show is making jokes about people the writers disagree with. Stewart knows his writers belong to a labor pool that is decidedly liberal, and the hardest thing about that pool isn’t swimming in it, but getting out. Once you’re out, goodbye applause.”

    Stewart and his show have appeal that crosses ideological borders - I don't think you can say the same of Gutfield, and other right-wing comedians like Jim Norton, Adam Corolla or Dennis Miller.

    I think he'd be the first to admit a liberal bias, but the republicans have been writing their own material lately - just look at the primaries; what's a comedian to do?  When a Dem acts ridiculously, Stewart does pounce - the Anthony Weiner story comes to mind, and Weiner was a friend.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to slomag's comment:

     



    If Obama mints a trillion dollar coin, he doesn't have to hear about the debt ceiling for another year.  

     

    If the government shuts down, coin or not, Republicans will be blamed and the Dems will easily regain control of the house in 2014.

    Congress appropriated every cent of our debt - if congressional Republicans have cuts in mind, let them propose them and let them stand for a vote on their own merits. 




     

    He won't have to hear about the debt ceiling for another year because when the government shuts down they'll stop spending anything and those "debts" will suddenly turn into a surplus for the year.

     

    And your assumption that the public will blame Republicans has no basis.  I doubt many outside of the diehard progressives will back Obama circumventing the debt ceiling with this $1 Trillion coin gimmick.  The risk is just as big for the Democrats as it is for the Republicans.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to Jim-in-Littleton's comment:

    And then what?



    Devaluation of currency, inflation, the dollar is no longer a reserve currency, serious difficulty raising future loans. On and on and on.

     


    All sorts of bad things happen if they actually did the coin stunt. Trouble is the things that would happen if the debt limit isn't raised so that already apportioned funds can be spent are far, far, worse. And would have global implications.


    Which is why they will work something out. That or whatever political system ultimately emerges from the ruin and wrack, it won't be Democrats and Republicans.



    Krugman argues there would be no real impact - it would just be an accounting trick to avoid the debt ceiling ...

    In case you’re wondering, no, this wouldn’t be an inflationary exercise in printing money. Aside from the fact that printing money isn’t inflationary under current conditions, the Fed could and would offset the Treasury’s cash withdrawals by selling other assets or borrowing more from banks, so that in reality the U.S. government as a whole (which includes the Fed) would continue to engage in normal borrowing.

    Basically, this would just be an accounting trick, but that’s a good thing. The debt ceiling is a case of accounting nonsense gone malignant; using an accounting trick to negate it is entirely appropriate.

    But wouldn’t the coin trick be undignified? Yes, it would — but better to look slightly silly than to let a financial and constitutional crisis explode.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to Jim-in-Littleton's comment:

    And then what?



    Devaluation of currency, inflation, the dollar is no longer a reserve currency, serious difficulty raising future loans. On and on and on.

     


    All sorts of bad things happen if they actually did the coin stunt. Trouble is the things that would happen if the debt limit isn't raised so that already apportioned funds can be spent are far, far, worse. And would have global implications.


    Which is why they will work something out. That or whatever political system ultimately emerges from the ruin and wrack, it won't be Democrats and Republicans.




     

    Exactly.  And that's why the coin gimmick isn't going anywhere and Obama's "I won't negotiate!" nonsense is nothing but bluster.  In the end, he will negotiate because he really doesn't have another viable alternative.  (That goes for the idea of invoking some imaginary authority under the 14th Amendment as well.)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to Jim-in-Littleton's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     



    If Obama mints a trillion dollar coin, he doesn't have to hear about the debt ceiling for another year.  

     

    If the government shuts down, coin or not, Republicans will be blamed and the Dems will easily regain control of the house in 2014.

    Congress appropriated every cent of our debt - if congressional Republicans have cuts in mind, let them propose them and let them stand for a vote on their own merits. 

     




     

     

    He won't have to hear about the debt ceiling for another year because when the government shuts down they'll stop spending anything and those "debts" will suddenly turn into a surplus for the year.

     

    And your assumption that the public will blame Republicans has no basis.  I doubt many outside of the diehard progressives will back Obama circumventing the debt ceiling with this $1 Trillion coin gimmick.  The risk is just as big for the Democrats as it is for the Republicans.

     



    Not really - Obama might come off looking silly in the short run, but he won't be on the ballot, and in this day and age, nobody is going to remember what happened 22 months earlier anyway.  It would basically look to everybody just like it is - rather than doing their job, Republicans took their ball and went home.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    Krugman argues there would be no real impact - it would just be an accounting trick to avoid the debt ceiling ...

    .....

     

    Basically, this would just be an accounting trick, but that’s a good thing. The debt ceiling is a case of accounting nonsense gone malignant; using an accounting trick to negate it is entirely appropriate.

    But wouldn’t the coin trick be undignified? Yes, it would — but better to look slightly silly than to let a financial and constitutional crisis explode.




     

    If Krugman thinks the markets are going to accept the coin gimmick as a legit exercise of government and that there wouldn't be any repercussions for it, he is sadly mistaken. It would be far from "a good thing" - unless you happen to be an anarchist.  Standard & Poors isn't likely to look favorably upon the President usurping Congressional authority over spending and you'd still have a constitutional crisis on your hands.  The country's credit rating will be downgraded within seconds of any announcment that this coin gimmick is going to go into effect and any bonds the Treasury tries to issue under this $1 trillion windfall would be so suspect that no one would buy them. 

     

    And thus is the issue I have with many of Krugman's ideas.  He may very well be a great Economist but he'd make a lousy politician.  If the debt ceiling is nothing more than "a case of accounting nonsense gone malignant" and using an "accounting trick" is an acceptable means of getting around it then why isn't shutting down government by cutting off all funding also an acceptable "trick"?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to slomag's comment:

     


    Not really - Obama might come off looking silly in the short run, but he won't be on the ballot, and in this day and age, nobody is going to remember what happened 22 months earlier anyway.  It would basically look to everybody just like it is - rather than doing their job, Republicans took their ball and went home.

     

     




     

    It wouldn't just be Obama.  Every Democrat that supports him would also have to run against their record of looking silly too.  

     

    And if no one is going to remember it in 22 months, why should the Republicans worry about it either?  The current CRA runs out about 3 weeks after the projected debt ceiling issue hits. That gives Obama 3 weeks to spend that $1 trillion before he's completely cut off...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Cantor is not talking about collapse

     

    What a stupid thing to say. Oh, look who said it.

    Collapse is what happens if the debt limit isn't raised.

    Claiming the only thing that matters is debt service is a typical skeetard lie. How moral and Christian of you.

     



    Parsing your comment is a lie.  Here is the rest of what you said:

     

    ...by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay"

    Obligated to pay is only debt service.  All these other things, social security, various entitlements, government is not, by supreme court decision (Flemming v. Nestor), obligated to pay. 

     And, while we are at it:  What does my religion have to do with anything here?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Cantor is not talking about collapse

     

    What a stupid thing to say. Oh, look who said it.

    Collapse is what happens if the debt limit isn't raised.

    Claiming the only thing that matters is debt service is a typical skeetard lie. How moral and Christian of you.

     



    Parsing your comment is a lie.  Here is the rest of what you said:

     

    ...by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay"

    Obligated to pay is only debt service.  All these other things, social security, various entitlements, government is not, by supreme court decision (Flemming v. Nestor), obligated to pay. 

     And, while we are at it:  What does my religion have to do with anything here?



    Flemming vs Nestor says an individual does not have a contractual right to social security payments.  It doesn't address the government's ability to ignore spending mandated by Congress.  That's illegal.  Even if we didn't send a single check, we'd be obligated to continue funding social security.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Cantor is not talking about collapse

     

    What a stupid thing to say. Oh, look who said it.

    Collapse is what happens if the debt limit isn't raised.

    Claiming the only thing that matters is debt service is a typical skeetard lie. How moral and Christian of you.

     



    Parsing your comment is a lie.  Here is the rest of what you said:

     

    ...by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay"

    Obligated to pay is only debt service.  All these other things, social security, various entitlements, government is not, by supreme court decision (Flemming v. Nestor), obligated to pay. 

     And, while we are at it:  What does my religion have to do with anything here?

     



    Flemming vs Nestor says an individual does not have a contractual right to social security payments.  It doesn't address the government's ability to ignore spending mandated by Congress.  That's illegal.  Even if we didn't send a single check, we'd be obligated to continue funding social security.

     I'll stipulate that, but, despite that, there is enough money coming into  the federal treasury to MEET ALL ITS DEBT OBLIGATIONS, including social security.

    What Obama is doing is saying that he won't, not that he can't, becasu he can, pay social security related trust security debt.

    Simply put, he is putting a gun to the head of the elderly and saying "make my day"

    Not only dispicable, INO, illegal, as he can, but refuses to pay the dept.  Raising the debt ceiling has nothign to do with it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    why is one side of the issue more virtuous then the other?



    Because one is taking the far more dangerous side of the issue. As explained:

     

     

    If Cantor and his fellow swine are serious about causing a global economic collapse by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay, then just about every other idea is less ridiculous.

    The coin is a terrible idea.

    Default is a cataclysmically awful idea.



    Beyond the hyperbole; the GOP wants to work on cuts and the Dems want revenue to address deficit and the impending debt limit.  Both actions are required; but its time for the Dems to have the cut discussion.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Krugman, Stewart in trillion-dollar coin tiff

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Cantor is not talking about collapse

     

    What a stupid thing to say. Oh, look who said it.

    Collapse is what happens if the debt limit isn't raised.

    Claiming the only thing that matters is debt service is a typical skeetard lie. How moral and Christian of you.

     



    Parsing your comment is a lie.  Here is the rest of what you said:

     

    ...by having America simply not pay money it is already obligated itself to pay"

    Obligated to pay is only debt service.  All these other things, social security, various entitlements, government is not, by supreme court decision (Flemming v. Nestor), obligated to pay. 

     And, while we are at it:  What does my religion have to do with anything here?

     



    Flemming vs Nestor says an individual does not have a contractual right to social security payments.  It doesn't address the government's ability to ignore spending mandated by Congress.  That's illegal.  Even if we didn't send a single check, we'd be obligated to continue funding social security.

     I'll stipulate that, but, despite that, there is enough money coming into  the federal treasury to MEET ALL ITS DEBT OBLIGATIONS, including social security.

    What Obama is doing is saying that he won't, not that he can't, becasu he can, pay social security related trust security debt.

    Simply put, he is putting a gun to the head of the elderly and saying "make my day"

    Not only dispicable, INO, illegal, as he can, but refuses to pay the dept.  Raising the debt ceiling has nothign to do with it.



    You mean he can shift money around - shut down the FBI or CIA, or unemployment or food stamps or other federal programs that would leave funds available to cut SS and Medicare checks.  

    I just don't think it's that simple - the second he diverts funds from one congressionally mandated area of spending to another, he's breaking the law.

     
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