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LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    If the country "goes over the fiscal cliff" it will NOT be republicans fault! It will be both parties doing and the dems get 2/3 the blame because they control the WH and senate while the republican only control the house. The only entity that could be soley blamed would be voters for voting back in the same balance of power that couldnt get anything done the last 4 years!




    Why, because you think it then it must be true?

     

    Geepers, there's some rigorous thought... the wingnuts control half of the legislative process but they shouldn't be held accountable because......

    Apparently you missed civics 101 in 6th grade.



    So now you admit the Dems should be to blame under Bush, when the right lost control?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:



    Ummmm, apparently you're forgetting that the fight led to the shutdown of the gov't and hurt the wingnuts while elevating the PotUS brand.

    Do you want a repeat of that?



    If it will lead to a balanced budget and govt program reforms again....YES!!!

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If the country "goes over the fiscal cliff" it will NOT be republicans fault!

    It will be both parties doing and the dems get 2/3 the blame because they control the WH and senate while the republican only control the house.

    The only entity that could be soley blamed would be voters for voting back in the same balance of power that couldnt get anything done the last 4 years!



    You do realize that you cannot pass a bill with only half of Congress under your control?  There has to be a compromise.  If it cannot be reached the there will be blame to go around.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If the country "goes over the fiscal cliff" it will NOT be republicans fault! It will be both parties doing and the dems get 2/3 the blame because they control the WH and senate while the republican only control the house. The only entity that could be soley blamed would be voters for voting back in the same balance of power that couldnt get anything done the last 4 years!

    Geepers, there's some rigorous thought... the wingnuts control half of the legislative process but they shouldn't be held accountable because......

    Apparently you missed civics 101 in 6th grade.



    I said BOTH parties will be at fault; the republicans for the house control, the democrats for controlling the senate and the WH!!! try reading with comprehension.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:



    You do realize that you cannot pass a bill with only half of Congress under your control?  There has to be a compromise.  If it cannot be reached the there will be blame to go around.




    I agree and it comes down to three leaders; 1 republican and 2 democrats!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If it will lead to a balanced budget and govt program reforms again....YES!!! 




    So you agree with Kelldog.

     

     

    And the wingnuts had nothing to do with balancing the budget or any budget surpluses. They were the minority when the economy took off and the early Clinton budgets capitalized on the economic growth.

     

    President Clinton's 1993 budget bill officially known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. OBRA, raised taxes on wealthy people but also raised the gas tax, extended limits on discretionary spending and cut back on some mandatory spending, was signed into law on August 10, 1993 without a single wingnut vote. Just five months prior, the Congressional Budget Office projected a 1998 deficit of $360 billion. One month after the bill passed, the CBO's new estimate of the 1988 deficit was down to $200 billion and was projected to hit a surplus regardless of who controlled Congress.

    The CBO wrote in 1998:
     "œOver the past four years, growth in revenues has consistently outpaced that of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2 to 3 percentage points. Several factors have contributed to that outcome. The tax increases enacted in the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 were the main causes in 1994 and 1995. Also, the personal and corporate income tax bases grew faster than GDP over the period, especially in 1996 and 1997. Higher income taxpayers experienced above-average income growth, which boosted revenues because their income is taxed at higher marginal rates."

    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/budget/news/2011/03/07/9349/not-so-fast-newt/

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If it will lead to a balanced budget and govt program reforms again....YES!!! 




    So you agree with Kelldog.

     

     

    And the wingnuts had nothing to do with balancing the budget or any budget surpluses. They were the minority when the economy took off and the early Clinton budgets capitalized on the economic growth.

     

    President Clinton's 1993 budget bill officially known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. OBRA, raised taxes on wealthy people but also raised the gas tax, extended limits on discretionary spending and cut back on some mandatory spending, was signed into law on August 10, 1993 without a single wingnut vote. Just five months prior, the Congressional Budget Office projected a 1998 deficit of $360 billion. One month after the bill passed, the CBO's new estimate of the 1988 deficit was down to $200 billion and was projected to hit a surplus regardless of who controlled Congress.

    The CBO wrote in 1998:
     "ÂœOver the past four years, growth in revenues has consistently outpaced that of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2 to 3 percentage points. Several factors have contributed to that outcome. The tax increases enacted in the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 were the main causes in 1994 and 1995. Also, the personal and corporate income tax bases grew faster than GDP over the period, especially in 1996 and 1997. Higher income taxpayers experienced above-average income growth, which boosted revenues because their income is taxed at higher marginal rates."

    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/budget/news/2011/03/07/9349/not-so-fast-newt/



    AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE IN CONTROL WHEN THE ECONOMY  SANK UNDER BUSH'S FINAL YEARS!!!

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    repeat

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    So Barry Boy outspends every other administration in history combined.... spends us to the brink and it's all Bushs fault? Quite logical.




    Hey MORON, why don't you provide a link to the Obama budget that is responsible for all this spending?

     

    We all want to get to the bottom of this so let's start with your bullshiit claim of "Obama spending".

    Just one link to the budget would be a good start.

     

    Of course you could just admit that you're a lying pieceofshit and save us all some pixels.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If the country "goes over the fiscal cliff" it will NOT be republicans fault!

    Not quite true

    First, it will be the fault of Cantor and his A55hole TP'ers who blew up the deal between Obama and Orange Man.

    Second, it will be the fault of any Republicans who insist on maintaing tax cuts for people who don't need it because they are richer than ever before in American history and, on that basis, refuse to work out a deal. Again.

    Fortuantely Republicans are starting to rebel against their wannabe overlord, Norquist.




    That's an opinion and a biased one at that.

     

    The FACT is the POTUS is the leader of this country and the dems control the senate and the executive branch; the republicans Cantor and Boehner are "elected" officials that are trying to hold the line for fiscal conservatives.

    Why should they break their principles just because they are in the minority party.

    It is both parties job to find suitable compromise and no party should have to compromise more than the other and they should BOTH be blamed if it fails!!

     

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    It is both parties job to find suitable compromise

     


    Can you read?

    The problem is Republicans who refuse to compromise on anything.

     



    What are the Dems compromising on?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelldog1. Show kelldog1's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    It is both parties job to find suitable compromise

     


    Can you read?

    The problem is Republicans who refuse to compromise on anythin



    I CONCURR!!!!!!!!!

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    It is both parties job to find suitable compromise

    Can you read?

    The problem is Republicans who refuse to compromise on anything. 



    Really??

    The republicans were not even getting actual govt spending cuts! They were only getting reductions in spending increases that wouldnt have went into affect for 2 years!

    The dems were getting a few billion in tax increases!!

    We need to reduce the size of and increase the effixciency of govt not maintain the current size and waste!!

    who wouldnt compromise???

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    You know something?

    It is an amazing world the Democrats live in. They do every thing the right way, never make mistakes, don't over spend. Everything bad that has happened is because of those damn Republicans. 

    The Democrats are always ready to compromise, the Republics are just a bunch of stubborn rich guys. Democrats are honest and hard working folks, Republicans are just greedy. 

    Funny thing though, why is it the Republicans seem to be happier than Democrats?

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Really?? The republicans were not even getting actual govt spending cuts! They were only getting reductions in spending increases that wouldnt have went into affect for 2 years! The dems were getting a few billion in tax increases!! We need to reduce the size of and increase the effixciency of govt not maintain the current size and waste!! who wouldnt compromise???



    WDYWN just laid out a brief but succinct example of the compromise the Dems have proposed.

    What, pray tell, have the wingnuts offred as a compromise?

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12-Angry-Men. Show 12-Angry-Men's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

    The ISSUE is spending NOT increasing revenue. Barry Boy takes the spending cake.



    Still no actual examples of all this spending by PotUS?

     

    Figures, fcuking imbeciles who can navigate a keyboard but can't produce an original thought.

    Hey numbnuts, why don't ya run back to the echo chambers and see what bullcrap they're spewing these days.

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from msobstinate99. Show msobstinate99's posts

    Re: LET THE REPUBLICANS TAKE THE US ECONOMY OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    In response to NO MO O's comment:

     

    The ISSUE is spending NOT increasing revenue. Barry Boy takes the spending cake.




    Still no actual examples of all this spending by PotUS?

     

     

    Figures, fcuking imbeciles who can navigate a keyboard but can't produce an original thought.

    Hey numbnuts, why don't ya run back to the echo chambers and see what bullcrap they're spewing these days.

     

     

     

    Still no actual examples of all this spending by PotUS?



    Spending has skyrocketed under President Obama, but of late some are claiming that the opposite is true. Case in point: MarketWatch columnist Rex Nutting wrote, “Obama spending binge never happened,” and Politifact rated this statement “mostly true.”

    But Mitt Romney this week said that “Since President Obama assumed office three years ago, federal spending has accelrated at a pace without precedent in recent history.” So who has it right? Mitt Romney.

    What Politifact must have missed is a very important data point: President Obama signed most of the spending attributed to President George W. Bush’s last year in office, which was assigned wrongly to Bush in Nutting’s piece. (Heritage’s Emily Goff and Alison Fraser set the record straight on The Foundry.)

    Nutting argues that President G.W. Bush’s second term spending bills from Fiscal Year 2006-2009 averaged 8.1% and President Obama’s annualized growth averaged 1.4%.  The reason why Nutting included FY 2009 is because it was “the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion.”  This assumption is incorrect and dishonest.  This flaw in Nutting’s analysis is the reason why the Obama numbers are wrong and Nutting’s whole piece is based on flawed data.

    Nutting operates under the flawed assumption that President Obama is not responsible for FY 2009 spending.  Under normal circumstances Nutting would be correct.  If Congress were a functioning body that passed appropriations bills on time, then this analysis would be correct.  The fact of the matter is that in recent history Congress has not done appropriations bills on time and in FY 2009, President Obama signed these spending bills into law that President Bush would have under different circumstances.

    Usually, the president in office prior to a new president would have helped craft and sign into law government spending bills applied to the first 9 months of spending the next year and a president’s new term.  A fiscal year starts on October 1 of the year prior to the calendar year to September 30th of the calendar year.  In other words the fiscal year starts three months early.

    In FY2009, Congress did not complete work by September 30, 2008.  President Bush did sign some appropriations bills and a continuing resolution to keep the government running into President Obama’s first term, yet a Democrat controlled Congress purposely held off on the big spending portions of the appropriations bills until Obama took office.  They did so for the purposes of jacking up spending.  President Obama signed the final FY2009 spending bills on March 11, 2009.

    Congressional Quarterly (subscription required) maps out a history of the FY 2009 final appropriations bills (H.R. 1105 and PL 111-8), that would lead one to attribute most of the accelerated spending in FY 2009 to President Obama in a piece titled “2009 Legislative Summary: Fiscal 2009 Omnibus.” From CQ, “the omnibus provided a total of $1.05 trillion — $410 billion of it for discretionary programs — and included many of the domestic spending increases Democrats were unable to get enacted while George W. Bush was president.”  If accepted as true, this statement alone undercuts Nutting’s whole premise that FY 2009 is wholly Bush spending.

    President Bush signed only three of the twelve appropriations bills for FY 2009:  Defense; Military Construction/Veterans Affairs; and, Homeland Security.  President Bush also signed a continuing resolution that kept the government running until March 6, 2009 that level of funding the remaining nine appropriations bills at FY 2008 levels.  President Bush and his spending should only be judged on these three appropriations bills and FY 2008 levels of funding for the remaining nine appropriations bills.  Bush never consented to the dramatic increase in spending for FY 2009 and he should not be blamed for that spending spree.

    The Democrats purposely held off on the appropriations process because they hoped they could come into 2009 with a new Democrat-friendly Congress and a President who would sign bloated spending bills.  Remember, President Obama was in the Senate when these bills were crafted and he was part of this process to craft bloated spending bills.  CQ reported that “in delaying the nine remaining bills until 2009, Democrats gambled that they would come out of the November 2008 elections with bigger majorities in both chambers and a Democrat in the White House who would support more funding for domestic programs.”  And they did.

    If you trust CQ’s reporting, and I do, then this is damning.  Democrats in Congress purposely held off on pushing bloated appropriations bills because they knew President Bush would not sign the bill and Republicans in the Senate would block consideration of it.  You have to remember that the Senate went from 51-49 Democrat control under President Bush’s last year to 59-41 in the early days of President Obama.  On April 28, 2009, Senator Arlen Specter switched parties from Republican to Democrat to give the Democrats a 60 vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate.  The House had a similar conversion from a 233-202 Democrat majority to 257-178 Democrat majority. Democrats were banking on a big enough majorities in the Senate and House that they could pass the bloated spending bill and they got it.

    Bush issued a veto threat on the bloated spending bills pending in Congress in late 2008.  CQ estimated that the final spending bill “provided about $31 billion more in discretionary funding than was included in the fiscal 2008 versions of the nine bills” which is “about $19 billion more than Bush sought.”  I would argue that Obama gets credit for the whole $31 billion in new spending.  The most damning fact from the CQ piece is that “Bush had threatened to veto spending bills that exceeded his request.”

    Now one can argue that even $31 billion is a drop in the bucket when one considers that spending went from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion.  Much of the spike in increased spending is on the mandatory spending side, and much of it can be attributed to President Obama.  Look at OMB Tables on FY 2008 spending versus FY 2009 spending and you can see why the numbers spiked between those two years.

    Overall spending, mandatory and discretionary spending went from $2.98 trillion in FY 2008 to $3.52 trillion in FY 2009.  There were two of the big spikes in spending from FY’08 to ’09.  One was in Federal Payments for Individuals not including Social Security and Medicare from $758 billion in FY’08 to 918 billion in FY’09.  President Obama’s Stimulus spending bill included an increase in food stamps and an extension of unemployment benefits that should not be attributable to President Bush.  Also, the category of “Other Federal” spending spiked from $261 billion to $540 billion.  This includes TARP spending that was recovered on the back end by President Obama further distorting the Nutting analysis.

    So how can Nutting attribute spending to President Bush that he expressly vowed to veto?  Also, some of the mandatory spending has been wrongly attributed to President Bush in Nutting’s analysis.  Finally, TARP spending under Bush and the recovery of TARP money under Obama further distorts these numbers.

    This is unethical and fuzzy math.  The Truth-O-Meter may want to consider these facts when further analyzing the complications and distortions in analysis used by Nutting to argue that Obama is more fiscally responsible than his predecessors.

    Posted in Entitlements, Taxes & Spending
     
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