March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to ImYourDaddy's comment:

     

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    To me it's not about peace being cheaper. there was no threat of Iraq attacking the US, therefore no reason for us to go there. It's one thing if the US has to protect itself like we did with Japan and Germany, but if no threat of attack and no ally of ours under attack then stay the fcuk out. 

     



    I'm being a little facetious with my second post ......  it was a costly war in the term of Human suffering and monetarily . Over 4800 US KIA , over 35,000 US WIA, almost almost 500,000(?) VA claims by returning vets and over 2 trillion dollars spent . I don't know what the estimate of Iraqi casualties ... 200,000 maybe more . Operation Iraqi Freedom will go down as our country's biggest and costliest mistake .

     

     



    Will go down as our country's biggest and costliest mistake ??????

     

     

    You heard of a liitle thing called Vietnam right?  ... over 50,000 lives lost and for what exactly??

    2 trillions dollar spent ... try again more like 1 trillion over 10 years and Obama spend that in 1 year...

     




    Yo Daddio The Viet Nam War didn't destablize an whole region and didn't make the world a more dangerous place live like Operation Iraqi Freedom .

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    In response to ImYourDaddy's comment:

     

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    To me it's not about peace being cheaper. there was no threat of Iraq attacking the US, therefore no reason for us to go there. It's one thing if the US has to protect itself like we did with Japan and Germany, but if no threat of attack and no ally of ours under attack then stay the fcuk out. 

     



    I'm being a little facetious with my second post ......  it was a costly war in the term of Human suffering and monetarily . Over 4800 US KIA , over 35,000 US WIA, almost almost 500,000(?) VA claims by returning vets and over 2 trillion dollars spent . I don't know what the estimate of Iraqi casualties ... 200,000 maybe more . Operation Iraqi Freedom will go down as our country's biggest and costliest mistake .

     

     



    Will go down as our country's biggest and costliest mistake ??????

     

     

    You heard of a liitle thing called Vietnam right?  ... over 50,000 lives lost and for what exactly??

    2 trillions dollar spent ... try again more like 1 trillion over 10 years and Obama spend that in 1 year...

     




    Yo Daddio The Viet Nam War didn't destablize an whole region and didn't make the world a more dangerous place live like Operation Iraqi Freedom .

     

     




     

    Nor did the Iraq war.  Saddam was taking pot shots at and threatening everything in sight.  That's destablisizing.

    To the extent there was destabilization while things got organized, it was Iran doing the destabilization. 

    As far as it being the worst foriegn policy blunder:  it wasn't a blunder.  The Vietname war was grossly more costly in life and money.  Obama's foriegn policy is completely amaturish, but if he can get through the next term without more Bengazi's, the press will laud him as having a great foriegn policy.  Just the way it goes.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tacobreath. Show tacobreath's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to portfilio's comment:

    http://downingstreetmemo.com/

     

    All the proof anyone needs to show that Bush started his war for oil profits.



    Where are the "profits"?  Where is the oil"  Dumbest thing ever said here portfilo.  Take a history-civics lesson will you?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    @ Newtster can you explain why 150,000 votes that were casted for Kerry in Ohio were counted for dubya that allowed him to steal TWO Elections ?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    facepalm

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BilltheKat. Show BilltheKat's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    No. From the beginning.

    ...and I can say I never stayed silent or backed down from that opinion. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to BilltheKat's comment:

    No. From the beginning.

    ...and I can say I never stayed silent or backed down from that opinion. 



    What...you want a medal of something?

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to GreginMeffa's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whats left when you take the cease out of cease fire?

    [/QUOT

    It can take alot of water to put out some fires !

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    facepalm




    Hey I don't wear a visor ..... I'm might have to hold onto your front of your jersey with my left hand and give you a couple of jabs unto there is an opening for my right hand.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    facepalm

     




    Hey I don't wear a visor ..... I'm might have to hold onto your front of your jersey with my left hand and give you a couple of jabs unto there is an opening for my right hand.

     



    Beware...I'm a southpaw ; )

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    at the time, it made sense, but we should have bugged out no later than when we bagged Saddam.

     


    We created a haven for Al Queda by going there. Once there, the responsible thing to do was clean up adequately before leaving.

     



    Alqueda was already there.  




    That is definitively not true.  Despite the very public lies of Cheney at the time.

    Even the CIA's Iraqi desk knew that but were powerless in the face of the politics.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Bush had multiple sources of information with different answers. He picked the one he wanted for whatever reason. 

     



    But what was the reason, exactly?

     

    Until the relevant players fess up, it's speculation.  And then there's this from Bush speechwriter David Frum:

    "I was less impressed by Chalabi than were some others in the Bush administration. However, since one of those 'others' was Vice President Cheney, it didn't matter what I thought. In 2002, Chalabi joined the annual summer retreat of the American Enterprise Institute near Vail, Colorado. He and Cheney spent long hours together, contemplating the possibilities of a Western-oriented Iraq: an additional source of oil, an alternative to US dependency on an unstable-looking Saudi Arabia."

     

    It's less-than-helpful to have some of those players, like Rummy and Wolf are doing today, continue to trump up the conflict as if they did nothing wrong and Iraq is a democratic paradise.  It's just not true.  And it's also the essence of much of the gop's detachment from the reality of the Bush Years that everyone else seems to agree upon.

     

     



    What difference does it make? Sound familiar? 

     

    What exactly did Rummy  et. al. do wrong? They made a bad decision, a mistake? Sure it was a very costly one in terms of $$ and lives, but that is another subject altogether.

    I think your perspective is a bit warped when you say

     "And it's also the essence of much of the gop's detachment from the reality of the Bush Years that everyone else seems to agree upon." 

    Do you get out much? everyone? Perhaps you forgot the Bush kicked Kerry's a55 to get re-elected after much of this stuff was exposed .  How could that happen?

    Well, why did Bush choose to cherry pick intelligence to do what he wanted to do? It is all speculation. It could have been anything from he wanted to keep Saddam Hussein and his resources seperate from Al Qaeda and the threat that might have posed to us to getting even for his father or some deal to enrich himself.  Could have been all of the above. Who knows? Seems like everyone and anyone that enters public office in Washington emerges far wealthier than you would expect from their earnings for public office, including the dunce that is President now.

    In reality we had every right to declare war on Iraq for shooting at our air force that was enforcing the no-fly zone. Doesn't mean we should have, but perhaps Bush's biggest mistake was making more of it than he had to. Scroo the WMD. They are shooting at us and are violating their peace agreement.



    OK, so I'll grant you that some people still think the war was a good idea.  Surely some may still feel that way about Vietnam (see: R. McNamara in "The Fog Of War").  But they are firmly in the minority.

    But the issue, like you say, is at what cost?  What is the public's perception about war after 10 years relative to another oppressive regime in Syria that is more destructive and hell-bent than Saddam ever was?  

    For all of that unnecessary attention focussed on Iraq, we largely ignored the mit fuses of the looming credit and housing crises.  We allowed Afghani to get so out of hand that in the end it took maybe three times as many resources we might have needed at the beginning when it really mattered.

    As someone more eloquently than I said, "Instead of the Iraq War displaying the power of the American military, all it really did was display its limitations."  And a generation of Iraqi War veterans will bear the highest burden of this "mistake" - the Understatement Of The Decade by far.

    Lots of people need to own up to their part in the "mistake" - on both the right and left (hello, NYT...!) - and until they do, our political system will continue to suffer a massive credibility deficit.

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    Because of course they had so much trouble recruiting before Iraq....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Because of course they had so much trouble recruiting before Iraq....



     

    That'll be two whooshes, one facepalm.

     



    Quite a "gotcha" moment for ya...sigh

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Bush had multiple sources of information with different answers. He picked the one he wanted for whatever reason. 

     



    But what was the reason, exactly?

     

    Until the relevant players fess up, it's speculation.  And then there's this from Bush speechwriter David Frum:

    "I was less impressed by Chalabi than were some others in the Bush administration. However, since one of those 'others' was Vice President Cheney, it didn't matter what I thought. In 2002, Chalabi joined the annual summer retreat of the American Enterprise Institute near Vail, Colorado. He and Cheney spent long hours together, contemplating the possibilities of a Western-oriented Iraq: an additional source of oil, an alternative to US dependency on an unstable-looking Saudi Arabia."

     

    It's less-than-helpful to have some of those players, like Rummy and Wolf are doing today, continue to trump up the conflict as if they did nothing wrong and Iraq is a democratic paradise.  It's just not true.  And it's also the essence of much of the gop's detachment from the reality of the Bush Years that everyone else seems to agree upon.

     

     



    What difference does it make? Sound familiar? 

     

    What exactly did Rummy  et. al. do wrong? They made a bad decision, a mistake? Sure it was a very costly one in terms of $$ and lives, but that is another subject altogether.

    I think your perspective is a bit warped when you say

     "And it's also the essence of much of the gop's detachment from the reality of the Bush Years that everyone else seems to agree upon." 

    Do you get out much? everyone? Perhaps you forgot the Bush kicked Kerry's a55 to get re-elected after much of this stuff was exposed .  How could that happen?

    Well, why did Bush choose to cherry pick intelligence to do what he wanted to do? It is all speculation. It could have been anything from he wanted to keep Saddam Hussein and his resources seperate from Al Qaeda and the threat that might have posed to us to getting even for his father or some deal to enrich himself.  Could have been all of the above. Who knows? Seems like everyone and anyone that enters public office in Washington emerges far wealthier than you would expect from their earnings for public office, including the dunce that is President now.

    In reality we had every right to declare war on Iraq for shooting at our air force that was enforcing the no-fly zone. Doesn't mean we should have, but perhaps Bush's biggest mistake was making more of it than he had to. Scroo the WMD. They are shooting at us and are violating their peace agreement.



    If you're hyperpartisan, you can make the case that Bush did not lie to the American people.  Yes, he cited the testimony of a known liar and con-man (Curveball) as his first-hand account of biological weapons labs that turned out to be nothing close.  Yes, the man had been discredited by German intelligence, and those within the CIA who actually knew "Curveball" were shocked that he was being presented as "evidence" of a WMD Program.  And yes, he cited a Yellow Cake purchase in his SOTU address that had been dis-credited by the CIA a year earlier.  So to most liberal and objective eyes, the man at the very least was woefully misleading to the American public, and to congress, but to the hyper-partisan conservative he was not technically lying.

    But Cheney and Rumsfeld are another matter.  They said not only were there WMDs in Iraq, but they knew exactly where they were.  Cheney said we would be greeted as liberators.  Rumsfeld said he could not see the conflict lasting six months.  They said they had evidence of Al Qaeda working with Saddam Hussein to procure the WMDs that did not exist.  

    And, to your question of how Bush won the 2004 election, despite being trounced at every debate - Tom Ridge admitted to manipulating the terror level alerts to give Bush an advantage.  What does that tell you about their strategy?  Hmm, we have a sitting president who lost the popular vote presiding over the worst terrorist attack in the country's history.  The efforts to find the perpetrators have been fruitless for two years, and   primary season is heating up.  I'm not saying Bush started the war for political reasons, but this was in March, 2003.  What would conservatives be saying if Obama had invaded Iran in March of 2007?  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    NO!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    nope...the moment we learned no WMD we should have left....and handed the keys back to Saddam Hussein....

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tacobreath. Show tacobreath's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    No it was not worth it.  It`s pretty easy to say that now.  Last night I watched Hillary`s speech on Oct 22, 2002.  She spoke strongly of Saddam`s WMD and the threat that he was to the area and to his own people.  She spoke of the 100`s of thousands of Iraqis he had killed with WMD, and she was adamant about his removal and support for Resolution 114.

    Also, 40 nations.......FORTY countries had similar intelligence and were all supporting this war. In retrospect, it`s simple to say that we screwed this up and bad.  We should have taken out Saddam (something everyone agrees on) and left.

    The Libs here that still are stuck in the "Bush lied people died" and "war for oil" mud, aren`t worth debating.  They don`t get it and never will. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to tacobreath's comment:

    No it was not worth it.  It`s pretty easy to say that now.  Last night I watched Hillary`s speech on Oct 22, 2002.  She spoke strongly of Saddam`s WMD and the threat that he was to the area and to his own people.  She spoke of the 100`s of thousands of Iraqis he had killed with WMD, and she was adamant about his removal and support for Resolution 114.

    Also, 40 nations.......FORTY countries had similar intelligence and were all supporting this war. In retrospect, it`s simple to say that we screwed this up and bad.  We should have taken out Saddam (something everyone agrees on) and left.

    The Libs here that still are stuck in the "Bush lied people died" and "war for oil" mud, aren`t worth debating.  They don`t get it and never will. 



    Add to that list the "Bush stole the election" crowd too

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    facepalm

     




    Hey I don't wear a visor ..... I'm might have to hold onto your front of your jersey with my left hand and give you a couple of jabs unto there is an opening for my right hand.

     

     



    Beware...I'm a southpaw ; )

     




    You're a " LEFTY" ?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: March 20, 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom ... 10 years later , was it worth it ?

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to Sistersledge's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    facepalm

     




    Hey I don't wear a visor ..... I'm might have to hold onto your front of your jersey with my left hand and give you a couple of jabs unto there is an opening for my right hand.

     

     



    Beware...I'm a southpaw ; )

     

     




    You're a " LEFTY" ?

     



    Haha...shhhh

     
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