Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Possibly the single worst foreign policy blunder in our nation's history.  We got rid of Iran's biggest threat in the region and enabled a regime friendly to our biggest enemy in the region to come to power.  Iran is in a better position in the region today because of our action.  The only people who benefitted for our invasion were oil companies and defense contractors.

    We could have encouraged Saddam to invade Iran or at least we could have used the threat of an invasion by Saddam to improve our negotiating position against Iran.

    If Bush Sr. had only given clearer signals to Saddam about the consequences of invading Kuwait, there'd be no Gulf War 1 or 2 and Iran would be trying to get us to call off Saddam.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Wow. Living in the past, dude. That was so eight years ago.

    while you are wallowing in the past, and liberal websites bent on rewriting history, look up why Obama blew the status of forces agreement.  Heck, I'll get you started:

     

    "Yet despite all that, in 2011 Iraq still had a chance to establish some sort of ordered government, as long as enough American forces were on hand to help keep order and impose mind-concentrating violence upon those who disrupted it, and to prod Prime Minister Maliki to govern like the leader of a nation rather than as the chief of a sectarian gang. And here is where the blame lands on Obama, for failing to negotiate a status-of-forces agreement with the Iraqi government that would have left 10,000-15,000 American troops in the country, and then pulling all U.S. forces out of the country in December 2011. Eager for the political advantage that accrued to claiming he “ended” the war and “brought the boys home,” Obama did not put Maliki’s feet to the fire and get the agreement. Nor did he show leadership and explain to the American people that despite their war-weariness, the 8 years of sacrifice would be wasted if that investment in blood and resources was not protected by continued American involvement. This failure created a vacuum in which foreign jihadists and revanchist Shiites ignited a firestorm of suicide bombings, massacres, and now the full-scale operations in Anbar."

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Possibly the single worst foreign policy blunder in our nation's history.  We got rid of Iran's biggest threat in the region and enabled a regime friendly to our biggest enemy in the region to come to power.  Iran is in a better position in the region today because of our action.  The only people who benefitted for our invasion were oil companies and defense contractors.

    We could have encouraged Saddam to invade Iran or at least we could have used the threat of an invasion by Saddam to improve our negotiating position against Iran.

    If Bush Sr. had only given clearer signals to Saddam about the consequences of invading Kuwait, there'd be no Gulf War 1 or 2 and Iran would be trying to get us to call off Saddam.

    [/QUOTE]

    Democrats destabilize foreign policy, republicans left to clean up their mess, and catch flack for it.

    been that way since Kennedy.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Its long past due to formally declare defeat in the entire region and bring everyone home.  Then we should build a long lasting monument dedicated to neo-con megalomania and stupidity, where millions of school kids for years to come can learn about how a band of chickenhawk 'leaders' in the early 21st century sent thousands of other people's kids off to fight and die for a complete lost cause, racked up trillions in debt, and created thousands of terrorists that never existed before we showed up.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:

    [QUOTE]No doubt some will jaw-droppingly blame Obama and "progressives" or "envirobats" [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]

    Quite a response.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Are we saying that the current administration's policy of supporting the "rebels" in Syria with lethal aid has nothing to do with emboldening their jihadi allies across the border in Iraq?

    Is that what we're saying?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to UserName9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its long past due to formally declare defeat in the entire region and bring everyone home.  Then we should build a long lasting monument dedicated to neo-con megalomania and stupidity, where millions of school kids for years to come can learn about how a band of chickenhawk 'leaders' in the early 21st century sent thousands of other people's kids off to fight and die for a complete lost cause, racked up trillions in debt, and created thousands of terrorists that never existed before we showed up.

    [/QUOTE]

    Obama's a neo-com?  He's the one responsible for turning the Mid East into a mess. Or, at least as responsible as Bush, if you like.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Are we saying that the current administration's policy of supporting the "rebels" in Syria with lethal aid has nothing to do with emboldening their jihadi allies across the border in Iraq?

    Is that what we're saying?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes.  That's what we are saying.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Are we saying that the current administration's policy of supporting the "rebels" in Syria with lethal aid has nothing to do with emboldening their jihadi allies across the border in Iraq?

    Is that what we're saying?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes.  That's what we are saying.

    [/QUOTE]

    Blind loyalist, you are.

    Look, it's simple:

    Either this is what Obama has planned, the fall of Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, into radical hands, or he had other plans, and failed.

    Either way, you can't blame this on Bush. Bush left the situation stable and manageable.  Obama has chose a path, apparently that has led to massive instability.  Was that planned or not?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Also, we can't "declare defeat" and move on, not after this administration has already declared victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Why, that would be like admitting that al Qaeda isn't really "decimated" and demoralized after the sad demise of bin Laden. That would be too much like admitting a mistake and we can't have that.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hansoribrother. Show Hansoribrother's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    Bush made a mess of Iraq. While I admit I supported an invasion to get rid of Hussein and more importantly, make sure he had no WMD, the way he went about it was all wrong.

    When Obama took over, I don't know what he could have done that would have led to a different result than what we see now. We don't have the money. It is cheaper all the way round to get out and if we have to go back for our own protection, then do something tactical to wipe out the threat rather than try to convert a backward culture into modernity.

    In the meantime, Obama is really duplicating Bush's mess all over the Middle East. He's arming our enemies, either deliberately or by complete blundering.

    He's also busy creating refugee camps here in the US and is basically turning the world into a complete disaster. 

    His talks with Iran are going to lead to a serious war. His failures could make Bush's look like a cake walk.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bush made a mess of Iraq. While I admit I supported an invasion to get rid of Hussein and more importantly, make sure he had no WMD, the way he went about it was all wrong.

    When Obama took over, I don't know what he could have done that would have led to a different result than what we see now. We don't have the money. It is cheaper all the way round to get out and if we have to go back for our own protection, then do something tactical to wipe out the threat rather than try to convert a backward culture into modernity.

    In the meantime, Obama is really duplicating Bush's mess all over the Middle East. He's arming our enemies, either deliberately or by complete blundering.

    He's also busy creating refugee camps here in the US and is basically turning the world into a complete disaster. 

    His talks with Iran are going to lead to a serious war. His failures could make Bush's look like a cake walk.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Obama has been very selective about arming insurgents in Syria.  It's not like he jumped on McCain's ideas.  And it was Ronald Reagan's policy to arm insurgents in the Middle East during the Soviet Union's incursion into Afghanistan. 

    The instability in the Middle East really stems from 2 things - and yes Bush owns both of them.  First, the 2 wars.  Secondly, Arab spring is a result of really bad economies in those countries.  People don't risk death in revolts if they got full bellies and a nice big screen TV.  Revolts occur as a result of bad economic conditions - caused by the financial meltdown.  Most countries greatly impacted by the financial meltdown saw changes in government - typically in the form of voters voting against the party in power.  In the Middle east, the people use a slightly different tactic.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

     

    I think Obama has been very selective about arming insurgents in Syria. It's not like he jumped on McCain's ideas. And it was Ronald Reagan's policy to arm insurgents in the Middle East during the Soviet Union's incursion into Afghanistan.

     

     

    It's as if he's never even heard of 9/11...

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName9. Show UserName9's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    The best solution in Iraq was the one Joe Biden pushed for years.....split it into 3 countries and let the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds have thier own borders and governments. 

    What is happening there today is predictable for anyone who was paying attention.  The Sunni's ran the place for years, then we invaded and put the Shiites in charge who immediately removed any Sunni's from any position in the government.  We left and now the Sunnis want their country back.  The Shiites will get slaughtered or become refugees (unless Iran helps them) and the Kurds just want to be left alone.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE] Also, we can't "declare defeat" and move on, not after this administration has already declared victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Why, that would be like admitting that al Qaeda isn't really "decimated" and demoralized after the sad demise of bin Laden. That would be too much like admitting a mistake and we can't have that. [/QUOTE]

    Obama doesn't want to admit defeat and that Al Queda isn't completely destroyed. Ok. But how does that connect up with what's going on now? Would "admitting" that somehow fix something in the region? Or are these comments entirely beside the point?

    [/QUOTE]

    So, Obama wasn't up for the job?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    So, Obama wasn't up for the job?

    [/QUOTE]

    If a train leaves Baltimore traveling 55 miles per hour and Xenu's battlefleet leaves the arm of Orion at 213^10 kilometers per hour, what is the sine of the distance from which an African swallow must drop a coconut to crack a great tortoise's shell?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll take that as an "affirmative".

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    So, Obama wasn't up for the job?

    [/QUOTE]

    If a train leaves Baltimore traveling 55 miles per hour and Xenu's battlefleet leaves the arm of Orion at 213^10 kilometers per hour, what is the sine of the distance from which an African swallow must drop a coconut to crack a great tortoise's shell?

    [/QUOTE]


    42.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE] Also, we can't "declare defeat" and move on, not after this administration has already declared victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Why, that would be like admitting that al Qaeda isn't really "decimated" and demoralized after the sad demise of bin Laden. That would be too much like admitting a mistake and we can't have that. [/QUOTE]

    Obama doesn't want to admit defeat and that Al Queda isn't completely destroyed. Ok. But how does that connect up with what's going on now? Would "admitting" that somehow fix something in the region? Or are these comments entirely beside the point?

    [/QUOTE]


    The point is that whatever Obama does it will be what Obama feels is in the best interest of Obama.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to UserName9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The best solution in Iraq was the one Joe Biden pushed for years.....split it into 3 countries and let the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds have thier own borders and governments. 

    What is happening there today is predictable for anyone who was paying attention.  The Sunni's ran the place for years, then we invaded and put the Shiites in charge who immediately removed any Sunni's from any position in the government.  We left and now the Sunnis want their country back.  The Shiites will get slaughtered or become refugees (unless Iran helps them) and the Kurds just want to be left alone.

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe it was the US who removed Sunnis from their Government posts.  First, we disbanded the military, without getting their weapons.  Then we threw all of the managers out their jobs.  Leaving Iran with no army, no goverment, and no beauracracy but giving insurgents plenty of recruits and managerial talent. 

    The Bush appointee who made these 2 decisions was as incompetent as the appointee running FEMA during Katrina.

    Everything Bush touched was a collassal failure.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.


    joe Biden "Iraq is going to be one of the great accomplishments of Ohole"


    no status sofas with Iraq and then afthgan is one reason this has happened. 


    You simpletons want these religious nuts to take over the entire middle east


     


    Btw afgan was was oholes good war


    Patraeus won the Ira war Ohole lost the war and now the region


    the USA is in political free fall All oholers dueing


    why dint all u Ohole lovers put your tongues back in your mouths, stop licking and get your head out of his butt

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    seawolfxs, that's neither necessary nor helpful, surely you can make your point without being obscene?

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: Mess-o-potamia, with a vengeance.

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UserName9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The best solution in Iraq was the one Joe Biden pushed for years.....split it into 3 countries and let the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds have thier own borders and governments. 

    What is happening there today is predictable for anyone who was paying attention.  The Sunni's ran the place for years, then we invaded and put the Shiites in charge who immediately removed any Sunni's from any position in the government.  We left and now the Sunnis want their country back.  The Shiites will get slaughtered or become refugees (unless Iran helps them) and the Kurds just want to be left alone.

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe it was the US who removed Sunnis from their Government posts.  First, we disbanded the military, without getting their weapons.  Then we threw all of the managers out their jobs.  Leaving Iran with no army, no goverment, and no beauracracy but giving insurgents plenty of recruits and managerial talent. 

    The Bush appointee who made these 2 decisions was as incompetent as the appointee running FEMA during Katrina.

    Everything Bush touched was a collassal failure.

    [/QUOTE]

    And Obama has been incompetent in the followup.

    look, every president inherits problems and makes mistakes. In this case, I am finding it hard to swallow that the current situation is Bush's fault, as Obama has had the football for six years, and has continually failed in helping Iraq achieve security. Facts are facts, dude.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
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