More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    It is now officially time for the leftists to retire the whining about "the neo-cons supported Saddam against Iran in the 80s" . It has jumped the shark...

    Just 2 years ago, John Kerry was singing a different tune about Assad. Lurch and liberal Senators like Obama during Bush's second term embraced the chemical mass murderer....

    WashTimes: The Obama national security team that wants to go to war with Syria and demonizes President Bashar Assad is the same group that, as senators, urged reaching out to the dictator.

    As a bloc on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, President Obama, Secretary of State John F. Kerry, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Vice President Joseph R. Biden all opposed the George W. Bush administration’s playing tough with Mr. Assad.

    None grew closer to Mr. Assad and promoted him in Washington more than Mr. Kerry.

    “President Assad has been very generous with me in terms of the discussions we have had,” Mr. Kerry, as a senator from Massachusetts, told an audience at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in March 2011. He predicted that Mr. Assad would change for the better.

    But that same month, pro-democracy demonstrations erupted in Syria that would lead to a civil war, unmasking Mr. Assad’s brutal tactics, including the Aug. 21 unleashing of nerve gas that killed more than 1,400 civilians.



    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/1/bashar-assad-loses-us-friends-as-kerry-hagel-and-b/#ixzz2dmjH09Zc
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    Well, you have to realize that Assad is a reformer. I know this because Hillary told me so.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    Sounds like an inconvenient truth................

    ...the man who really counts in the world is the doer,...  TR 1891

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    So the material facts change but you think everyone should stand by their previous assessments from two years ago, when Syria is using chemical weapons today?  

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    Shhhh..dont worry, the liberal media wouldnt embarass Hillary, Kerry nor the Obama Administration by mentioning this.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    There isn't anything for any of them to be embarrased about? 

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago


    Shame on Kerry for not declaring Assad a murderous tyrant before he became a murderous tyrant.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    So the material facts change but you think everyone should stand by their previous assessments from two years ago, when Syria is using chemical weapons today?

    In the same way that the material facts changed when Saddam invaded Kuwait? Or blatently disregarded the rules put in place by the cease-fire agreement? Or began developing secret nuclear, biological, and chemical programs? Or any of the other "material facts" that had changed since the 80s?

    What you say makes sense but here is the question:

    Why should we not hold this administration to the same rules that it's supporters advanced during previous Republican administrations?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

     

    No similarity between Syria and Iraq, eh? The biggest difference is that phony antiwar liberals show their true partisan colors...

    The Week:

    The Democrats are missing in action because of course the president is a Democrat," David Swanson, an anti-war activist working with non-profit group Roots Action, told BuzzFeed. "What's tamping down the activism is partisanship."

    Plumer points to a study by sociologists Michael T. Heaney and Fabio Rojas, who claim that participation in anti-war rallies plummeted significantly after 2008, despite the fact that Obama has continued some of the national security policies implemented by George W. Bush, and for a while even ramped up the U.S.'s military presence in Afghanistan.

    Part of the reason, the study says, is that Democratic politicians in the Bush era found it politically useful to co-opt the anti-war movement for votes. That all changed after Obama was elected:

    The rise of Democratic majorities in Congress and a Democratic president in the White House presented opportunities for activists to press their cause, but this possibility was precluded by the removal of a critical causal mechanism: perceived threat (from President George W. Bush and the Republican Party). [PDF]

    Ultimately, the study suggests, the anti-war rallies of 2003 weren't just about Iraq — they were also a way to register disapproval with the Bush administration. Now, even with most Americans wary of military intervention in Syria, the Democrats who marched a decade ago are mostly staying home."

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]So the material facts change but you think everyone should stand by their previous assessments from two years ago, when Syria is using chemical weapons today?

     

    In the same way that the material facts changed when Saddam invaded Kuwait? Or blatently disregarded the rules put in place by the cease-fire agreement? Or began developing secret nuclear, biological, and chemical programs? Or any of the other "material facts" that had changed since the 80s?

    What you say makes sense but here is the question:

    Why should we not hold this administration to the same rules that it's supporters advanced during previous Republican administrations?

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    The first Gulf War enjoyed wide public support at home and globally, and that war in particular was in response to a military action and invasion of Kuwait which was a stones throw away from Saudi Arabia, a strategic ally.  Saddam forced a global response and even after being given time to abandon his invasion he opted for war.  He received war.  

    As for the second Iraq war, because the previous admin cooked the books, and to date there STILL isn't any evidence that the claims that were made to jusitfy war with Iraq were ever true people feel much differently about that engagement - which went on for over 10 years. For comparison, Desert Storm was over in 7 months.  

    Differences abound! 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    because the previous admin cooked the books

    Bing! Sorry, you just lost your credibility. There's a difference between getting incorrect (or dated) intelligence and running with it and "cooking the books." You can't be nuanced and diplomatic with the current administration while dropping all pretense of objectivity with the last one and not look like ACC.

    And you don't want that.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]because the previous admin cooked the books

     

    Bing! Sorry, you just lost your credibility. There's a difference between getting incorrect (or dated) intelligence and running with it and "cooking the books." You can't be nuanced and diplomatic with the current administration while dropping all pretense of objectivity with the last one and not look like ACC.

    And you don't want that.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually I can, because when the time came to assess our prewar intelligence versus what was found when were in there, the results came back as negative.  Why is that?  Was it a deliberate or was it just a huge, monumental screw up, that cost the US 10 years of war, thousands dead on our side, over 100,000 dead on the Iraqi side, destabilized the region leaving Iran as the strongest Arab power (one with an actual WMD program, BTW), and a couple trillion dollars?  No, the previous admin doesn't get the benefit of the doubt because their error was big in scale that it can't simply be treated as inconsequential.  

    But the most important thing is that what happened then and what is happening now are not even close to being analagous if only for the fact that the president alledged WMD use, and we actually have concrete evidence that not only does the WMD 1) Exist but we also know Syria 2) used it, multiple times.  Just on those two points your analogy goes from "strained" to "incomprehensible".  

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    Just on those two points your analogy goes from "strained" to "incomprehensible". 

    You're missing the point that both assessments have come from the same place, you're believing data that came from the exact same place that you've been so disdainful of. You're also missing the point that there is a very real possibility that the gas was released by the opposition to gain western sympathy and support. This kind of thing happens all the time in this region. You're also missing the point that much of Syria's chemical warfare capability came directly from Saddam. Finally, you're missing the point that you're not looking at these situations objectively.

    Sorry, credibility lost.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]Just on those two points your analogy goes from "strained" to "incomprehensible". 

     

    You're missing the point that both assessments have come from the same place, you're believing data that came from the exact same place that you've been so disdainful of. You're also missing the point that there is a very real possibility that the gas was released by the opposition to gain western sympathy and support. This kind of thing happens all the time in this region. You're also missing the point that much of Syria's chemical warfare capability came directly from Saddam. Finally, you're missing the point that you're not looking at these situations objectively.

    Sorry, credibility lost.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sir, I am not the one with a credibility issue here.  

    The "same places" that have verified the evidence of WMD use in Syria, cast large doubts on the truthiness of the prewar intelligence Bush used to argue for war in Iraq.  Our own people who doubted the evidence were hushed, foreign intelligence questioned the evidence, and as pointed out above the previous Admin has ADMITTED they bolstered claims that supported their efforts to go to war while disregarding key findings that undermined their position.  In political speak this is as close as you get to an admission of at best incompetence, and at worst of telling bald faced lies.  

    As for the possibility that the opposition used gas, the reporting concedes that as a possibility, I have questioned that aspect on these forums as well, but the public isn't seeing the detailed analysis, only the high level stuff, but given this admins careful handling of international conflict I feel more confident that they are on the right track and didn't decide to go to war and then try to find the evidence to support doing it.  

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    "given this admins careful handling of international conflict I feel more confident that they are on the right track and didn't decide to go to war and then try to find the evidence to support doing it. "

    You are an Obama lackey, in other words...Got it. 

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: More Kerry flip flopping: Kerry was a fan of Assad just 2 years ago

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    So the material facts change but you think everyone should stand by their previous assessments from two years ago, when Syria is using chemical weapons today?  

     



    On this site; ideology/parisanship always seems to over rule logic.

    It seems to apply today as the Dem partisans struggle to support a war President; where is code pink, Cindy Sheehan and all the kooks who hung out on our town commons on saturday mornings when Bush was President.

    On recent Mid East wars;

    1. Aaghanistan...justified
    2. Iraq...appeared to be justified until it wasn't and turned into a huge destabilizing mistake
    3. Libya...not really but we got in and out quickly and its realy in Africa so we got away with it
    4. Syria...no good will come from our intervention; it won't improve anything and it has the strong chance to be the final match to the powder keg that destabilizes the region and makes the current turmoil look peaceful.
     

Share