More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right, but if the problems are real and persist they may need to both increase further. I share skepticism that the penalty is high enough to force enough people onto the plan.

    It's a problem but it's there: Health insurance is really expensive, so getting hit with the penalty must also seriously hurt for it to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Mass. is any indication (and it's the only true one at this point), then the disincentive of getting nothing for something will deter most.  The figure is less than 1% in Mass. paying the penalty, I believe.

    Spite isn't much of a rationale even on a good day.  In the end, even 2-3% won't move the needle much for the rest.

    I don't believe the penalty should "hurt" more than the many advantages of having basic insurance will undoubtably help.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right, but if the problems are real and persist they may need to both increase further. I share skepticism that the penalty is high enough to force enough people onto the plan.

    It's a problem but it's there: Health insurance is really expensive, so getting hit with the penalty must also seriously hurt for it to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you admit it:  The plan is to FORCE people out of their plans and into the exchanges.  Forcibly.  Big fines.  Make any other option unpalitable.

    At last some honesty.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right, but if the problems are real and persist they may need to both increase further. I share skepticism that the penalty is high enough to force enough people onto the plan.

    It's a problem but it's there: Health insurance is really expensive, so getting hit with the penalty must also seriously hurt for it to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Mass. is any indication (and it's the only true one at this point), then the disincentive of getting nothing for something will deter most.  The figure is less than 1% in Mass. paying the penalty, I believe.

    Spite isn't much of a rationale even on a good day.  In the end, even 2-3% won't move the needle much for the rest.

    I don't believe the penalty should "hurt" more than the many advantages of having basic insurance will undoubtably help.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Waiting to see a doctor timeframs have nearly doubled.

    Massachusetts is expereincing a doctor shortage.

    some doctors that remain are dropping medicare and medicaid.

    So, it's not as rosy as you would like to think.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Return healthcare insurance to a free market environment. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    As far as coming up with some ideas from the right, we have over and over, but you reject it out of hand.  The suggestion at a high level is:  Return healthcare insurance to a free market environment. 


    Laissez-faire economics was a proven failure. End of story.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right, but if the problems are real and persist they may need to both increase further. I share skepticism that the penalty is high enough to force enough people onto the plan.

    It's a problem but it's there: Health insurance is really expensive, so getting hit with the penalty must also seriously hurt for it to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Mass. is any indication (and it's the only true one at this point), then the disincentive of getting nothing for something will deter most.  The figure is less than 1% in Mass. paying the penalty, I believe.

    Spite isn't much of a rationale even on a good day.  In the end, even 2-3% won't move the needle much for the rest.

    I don't believe the penalty should "hurt" more than the many advantages of having basic insurance will undoubtably help.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Waiting to see a doctor timeframs have nearly doubled.

    Massachusetts is expereincing a doctor shortage.

    some doctors that remain are dropping medicare and medicaid.

    So, it's not as rosy as you would like to think.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's hearsay at best.  Let's see the numbers in context.

    Either way, it's much, much better than you think...

    ...and all of the doomsaying and hysterics at that time have largely failed to come true even 7 years since the law passing.

     

    98% insured in Mass.  Best in the nation.  The law works.  

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     [/QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    Just like a lot of other countries have killed the middle class.

    You cannot empower the bottom by penalizing the top.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    You cannot empower the bottom by penalizing the top.



    You cannot empower anyone but the top by worshipping the top.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     [/QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 'middle class' could barely afford it before.  Now, many of them will get financial help AND better coverage across the board and therefore a better overall quality of care...

    ...with no risk of getting their insurance cancelled or denied speciously.

    "Killing the middle class" is partisan hyperbole at best and thus highly subjective.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 'middle class' could barely afford it before.  Now, many of them will get financial help AND better coverage across the board and therefore a better overall quality of care...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats a lie. The middle class were actually doiing very well. Not that is was inexpensive and not in need ofsome reform but, this is a middle class killer at the expense of the rich and under the disquise of providing for the poor..

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 'middle class' could barely afford it before.  Now, many of them will get financial help AND better coverage across the board and therefore a better overall quality of care...

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats a lie. The middle class were actually doiing very well.  

    [/QUOTE]

    No, they really weren't.  (And nobody thinks they were)  Double-digit annual increases in health care costs were unsustainable even 10 years ago.

    The law has already helped mitigate that spiral, and standardization will help even more.

    Of course, it would be even better if certain states stopped acting like spoiled children and worked on behalf of their citizens' well-being instead of actively working to thwart the law.

     

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [/QUOTE]

    Thats a lie. The middle class were actually doiing very well.  

    [/QUOTE]

    No, they really weren't.  (And nobody thinks they were)  Double-digit annual increases in health care costs were unsustainable even 10 years ago.

    The law has already helped mitigate that spiral, and standardization will help even more.

     [/QUOTE]


     Yes they were and those of us in the middle class know it!

    It's the federal politicians that are acting likespoiled children and worse.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Except the penalty is still not going to be high enough

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [/QUOTE]

    Thats a lie. The middle class were actually doiing very well.  

    [/QUOTE]

    No, they really weren't.  (And nobody thinks they were)  Double-digit annual increases in health care costs were unsustainable even 10 years ago.

    The law has already helped mitigate that spiral, and standardization will help even more.

     [/QUOTE]


     Yes they were and those of us in the middle class know it!

    [/QUOTE]


    No, they really weren't.  Again, nobody who's serious actually believes that.

    Least of all the 'middle class' you purport to represent...and who apparently were the only people not affected by inflation or the recession in the past 10 years.  Lucky you....

     

     

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

     [/QUOTE]


    Except the penalty is still not going to be high enough

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe not.  Only time will tell.  But I don't see anything wrong with starting soft and ramping up the penalty slowly.

    Again, if Mass. is any indication, the actual number will be negligible at worst.

    Do you think the Mass. tax penalty is too low...?

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Return healthcare insurance to a free market environment. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't mean that at all.  Stop being such a jerk in your quest to bring socialism to our shores.

    Of course we should care for the truly needy.  Never said any different.  The free market works for them as well.  

    But the lay-abouts, who won't work, who won't prioritize their needs, pound sand.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. Increase mandate penalty and increase subsidy qualification.

     [/QUOTE]

    The law accounts for this but does so gradually over the next few years.

     [/QUOTE]


    Except the penalty is still not going to be high enough

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe not.  Only time will tell.  But I don't see anything wrong with starting soft and ramping up the penalty slowly.

    Again, if Mass. is any indication, the actual number will be negligible at worst.

    Do you think the Mass. tax penalty is too low...?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe above poverty line for 18-26 year olds it's a little over $1,000. Which is ok. Much better than $95.00 

    The people who will risk not taking insurance are those who are just over the line where they don't qualify for subsidies yet still make little enough money that they'd rather risk not having insurance to save some dollars. These people tend, of course, to be the young health people that we want on insurance to help keep costs down somewhat.

    Just because MA has a low number who opt out doesn't mean it will translate to rest of country. MA does tend to have higher educated people.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     [/QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 'middle class' could barely afford it before.  Now, many of them will get financial help AND better coverage across the board and therefore a better overall quality of care...

    ...with no risk of getting their insurance cancelled or denied speciously.

    "Killing the middle class" is partisan hyperbole at best and thus highly subjective.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?  next you are going to tell me we used to put old people out on ice flows before Obamacare.

    Face it, face facts. as the socializing of America is what has made health care "barely affordable" for the middle class, not some imaginary marketplace failure.

    You lefties just don't get it.  It is not that your ideas and knowledge are slightly flawed, they are grossly flawed.  Your ideas don't work, yet you insist that they do.

    When ever there is a problem with one of your big ideas, like Obamacare, the solution is never perceived as the idea itself is wrong, it is always that we didn't spend enough, didn't tax enough, didn't fine people enough, didn't browbeat people enough, to make it work.

    That is the history of your ideas.

    Everyone else sees it.  I don't know why you don't see it. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    Obamacare is functioning EXACTLY as it was designed....we knew what the impact was going to be, the only surprise should be that it's so damaging so fast for so many

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Face it, face facts. as the socializing of America is what has made health care "barely affordable" for the middle class, not some imaginary marketplace failure.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The socializing of America is what has made health car "barely affordable" for the middle class? How so? What 'socialization' are you referring to that made health care "barely affordable". Please don't say ACA. My god, health care has been "barely affordable" for many LONG before ACA. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tvoter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Which means the poor and working classes go without, and whoever can afford it, gets it.

    How...compassionate of you.

     [/QUOTE]


    That's better than what we are looking at under this law, which is the middle class cant afford it and the poor get it while the rich pay for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 'middle class' could barely afford it before.  Now, many of them will get financial help AND better coverage across the board and therefore a better overall quality of care...

    ...with no risk of getting their insurance cancelled or denied speciously.

    "Killing the middle class" is partisan hyperbole at best and thus highly subjective.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?  next you are going to tell me we used to put old people out on ice flows before Obamacare.

    Face it, face facts. as the socializing of America is what has made health care "barely affordable" for the middle class, not some imaginary marketplace failure.

    You lefties just don't get it.  It is not that your ideas and knowledge are slightly flawed, they are grossly flawed.  Your ideas don't work, yet you insist that they do.

    When ever there is a problem with one of your big ideas, like Obamacare, the solution is never perceived as the idea itself is wrong, it is always that we didn't spend enough, didn't tax enough, didn't fine people enough, didn't browbeat people enough, to make it work.

    That is the history of your ideas.

    Everyone else sees it.  I don't know why you don't see it. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure...

    And all of your name-calling and generalizations and failure to address facts doesn't change the fact that nothing you said is relevant to this law, how it works, and what the outcomes will be.

    All you've got are platitudes and anti-lib invective and "socialism!"...

    ...which amounts to not much at all.  Typical.  Lose the argument on facts and resort to whining...it's the tee partee way.

    Again, you'd better leave this topic to people who clearly know more than you do.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to macnh1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the only surprise should be that it's so damaging so fast for so many

    [/QUOTE]

    What is "damaging" and for whom...?

    Be specific (for a change).

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just because MA has a low number who opt out doesn't mean it will translate to rest of country. MA does tend to have higher educated people.

     [/QUOTE]

    I'll grant you that.

    More educated generally translates into more insured.

    And I admit it's hard to conceive of even moderately educated adults foregoing the responsibility of having coverage.

    And honestly, it's unfortunate that it's come to this, but we had our chance years ago to change things, and we failed.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: More People Losing coverage under Obamacare than acquiring coverage

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]As far as coming up with some ideas from the right, we have over and over, but you reject it out of hand.  The suggestion at a high level is:  Return healthcare insurance to a free market environment. [/QUOTE]

    Laissez-faire economics was a proven failure. End of story.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Who said anything about laissez-faire?

    i know your general approach is throw out a red herring like this, but we are not falling for it.

    the free market is the best solution, period.

     
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