MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

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    MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    http://bigjournalism.com/driehl/2011/01/25/michele-bachman-gives-chris-matthews-a-history-lesson/
    On MSNBC, soon to be NBC Sports Channel, Tingly Chris wants to go out with a bang..channeling his inner Olberman, he went off the deep end, ranting and screaming at a perplexed Tea Party guest, over and over, that Michele Bachman was a "balloonhead"  for saying this: 
    America's Founders, specifically mentioning John Adams and his son , John Quincy Adams by name, continued to work until the blight of slavery became a thing of the past in America.
    This set off Matthews, who misconstrued what Bachman said. She never said all the Founding Fathers all opposed slavery, or solved the issue in their lifetime.
     At least his Palin Derangement Syndrome was not on display,  for a day.
    NBC Sports Channel cant come soon enough. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    This is a direct quote from Bachman:  "We also know that the very Founders that wrote those documents (D.O.I. and Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States."

    This is, of course, bad history.  It took several of generations to get rid of slavery and the Founders (many of whom directly benefitted from the institution) were long gone. 

    Bachman (like a lot of the Tea Party) is sloppy when it comes to knowing her history.  "Balloonhead" might be a bit strong though.  We all make mistakes.

    Bob you should look (and listen) to your facts before forming your you leap to attack. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

     "We also know that the very Founders that wrote those documents (D.O.I. and Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States."
    She cited John Adams, and his son, John Quincy Adams.
    She was right.
    Bachman never claimed "all" the Founders opposed slavery; that is just moonbats like Chris Matthews making stuff up, which is their wont to do....
    She didnt say there were 57 states, though....that is forgivable, isnt it?
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    "It took several of generations to get rid of slavery and the Founders (many of whom directly benefitted from the institution) were long gone."  

    If you know your history as much as you claim Reuben, you would know that Abraham Lincoln's famous "Cooper Union" address argued the same point as Bachman: Lincoln's speech documented that 23 of the 39 "Founding Fathers"  who signed the Constitution either were expressly antislavery or at the very least, voted against the expansion of slavery in the Territories.   
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    [QUOTE] "We also know that the very Founders that wrote those documents (D.O.I. and Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States." She cited John Adams, and his son, John Quincy Adams. She was right. Bachman never claimed "all" the Founders opposed slavery; that is just moonbats like Chris Matthews making stuff up, which is their wont to do.... She didnt say there were 57 states, though....that is forgivable, isnt it?
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE

    I'll assume  are right.  don't expect apology or any notice from the lame stream media.  They'll just move on to the next slander of the right.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    "It took several of generations to get rid of slavery and the Founders (many of whom directly benefitted from the institution) were long gone."   If you know your history as much as you claim Reuben, you would know that Abraham Lincoln's famous "Cooper Union" address argued the same point as Bachman: Lincoln's speech documented that 23 of the 39 "Founding Fathers"  who signed the Constitution either were expressly antislavery or at the very least, voted against the expansion of slavery in the Territories.   
    Posted by BobinVa


    The Founders certainly did not work tirelessly to end slavery because it was still around (and much expanded) years after their deaths. How many of those 39 voted for the Missouri Compromise that allowed for more slave states?  And as late as 1850 the politicians in Washington were still actively protecting slavery (the Fugitive Slave Law).  Even Lincoln refused to support abolition until he was deep into the Civil War.  You are fudging the history just like Bachman. 
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
     "We also know that the very Founders that wrote those documents (D.O.I. and Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States." She cited John Adams, and his son, John Quincy Adams. She was right. Bachman never claimed "all" the Founders opposed slavery; that is just moonbats like Chris Matthews making stuff up, which is their wont to do.... She didnt say there were 57 states, though....that is forgivable, isnt it?
    Posted by BobinVa


    John Quincy Adams was (obviously) from the generation that came after the Founders.  He died in 1848 long before abolition was a reality.  Obviously all the Founders did not oppose slavery (Jefferson did not even free his slaves on his death... including his own children).  But equally obviously not one of the Founders (or the next generation) could work tirelessly until it was no more.  There was just not enough time, people don't live that long.  Basic.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'


    I will quote a "wacko wingnut Republican" from the 1850s,  Abraham Lincoln, who, in the Lincoln -Douglas debates, felt that the Founding Fathers put slavery in the path to extinction:
    [Chris Matthews must think him a "balloonhead"...and 12-angry-men must think him an uneducated right wing nut...at least Sarah Palin graduated college, Lincoln never did]


    "[Stephen] Douglas asks you "why cannot the institution of slavery, or rather, why cannot the nation, part slave and part free, continue as our fathers made it forever?" In the first place, I insist that our fathers did not make this nation half slave and half free, or part slave and part free. I insist that they found the institution of slavery existing here. They did not make it so, but they left it so because they knew of no way to get rid of it at that time. When Judge Douglas undertakes to say that as a matter of choice the fathers of the government made this nation part slave and part free, he assumes what is historically a falsehood. More than that; when the fathers of the government cut off the source of slavery by the abolition of the slave trade, and adopted a system of restricting it from the new Territories where it had not existed, I maintain that they placed it where they understood, and all sensible men understood, it was in the course of ultimate extinction..." 
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead' : I guess they worked as hard as modern day liberals have since the early '60s to end poverty and homelessness, to improve education, to lower healthcare costs, and to re-build our infrstructure. Don't you think they should have solved one of these problems, at least??? To paraphrase McDonalds: "Trillions Spent....No one Served"
    Posted by Newtster


    The conservatives have had their shot at these problems too.  How have they done?  At least liberals have tried to make things better. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    I will quote a "wacko wingnut Republican" from the 1850s,  Abraham Lincoln, who, in the Lincoln -Douglas debates, felt that the Founding Fathers put slavery in the path to extinction: [Chris Matthews must think him a "balloonhead"...and 12-angry-men must think him an uneducated right wing nut...at least Sarah Palin graduated college, Lincoln never did] "[Stephen] Douglas asks you "why cannot the institution of slavery, or rather, why cannot the nation, part slave and part free, continue as our fathers made it forever?" In the first place, I insist that our fathers did not make this nation half slave and half free, or part slave and part free. I insist that they found the institution of slavery existing here. They did not make it so, but they left it so because they knew of no way to get rid of it at that time. When Judge Douglas undertakes to say that as a matter of choice the fathers of the government made this nation part slave and part free, he assumes what is historically a falsehood. More than that; when the fathers of the government cut off the source of slavery by the abolition of the slave trade, and adopted a system of restricting it from the new Territories where it had not existed, I maintain that they placed it where they understood, and all sensible men understood, it was in the course of ultimate extinction..." 
    Posted by BobinVa


    Lincoln was painting a rosy picture of the reality of our history.  He is right that the Founders did not create slavery, but they did recognize its existence and institutionalized it to a degree through the Constitution.  The Federalist system of a balance of state rights and national power guaranteed it would continue and the 3/5ths Compromise insured it had a national role.  Many hoped that it would become obsolete and fade away, but the exact opposite happened with rise of "King Cotton".  And he ignores the many political deals cut to insure its continued viability and even growth.  He ignores them because he does not agree with them.  But they still happened.  Long after the Founders were dead and gone, people were still wrestling with the institution and only a minority were trying to kill it.  Even Lincoln at this point in his career was a just a critic of slavery but not an actual abolitionist.

    So Bachman is wrong: the "very" people who founded the nation did not end slavery, that was left to their grandchildren and even then only after a very painful, bloody and lengthy process.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    "So Bachman is wrong: the "very" people who founded the nation did not end slavery"

    If Bachman said the sky was blue, you would say she is wrong. You can never admit when you are mistaken.
    You even have to disparage Lincoln; as a leftist you cant bring yourself to  praise the Founders of our country. Sad. Can only imagine what version of history your students were subjected to.
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    John Quincy Adams most definately was an enemy of slavery.  John Adams, not so much.
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    "So Bachman is wrong: the "very" people who founded the nation did not end slavery" If Bachman said the sky was blue, you would say she is wrong. You can never admit when you are mistaken. You even have to disparage Lincoln; as a leftist you cant bring yourself to  praise the Founders of our country. Sad. Can only imagine what version of history your students were subjected to.
    Posted by BobinVa


    Bob: you are a mindless tool of your rightist ideology. (See I can talk just like you).  Bachman was wrong, she misspoke or does not know her history well.  She lumped together as "Founders" people who were several generations apart from each other.  Why do you deny this?  Is it so hard for you to accept that sometimes a conservative might be mistaken?  That is truly sad.

    Show me where I am wrong on the history.  I don't disparage Lincoln, he was a great man, but he was not perfect either.  He had little use for slavery, wanted to halt its expansion, but he was no abolitionist, not until the Civil War was well underway.  And his views were undoubtably ahead of the majority of the North (with the South vehemently opposed).  We needed the worst war in American history and Lincoln to end slavery and that came about 100 years after the Founders got us independence and created the Constitution. 

    And stay away from the personal attacks.  It makes you appear even more of a nitwit than usual.  Try to form a coherent factual argument instead.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    Factually her comment was wrong.  Period.  The founders did not work to end slavery, they were too busy trying to get the country up and running and as mentioned many owned slaves themselves.  The founders weren't demigods they were men, as imperfect as any other, but to attribute to them something that occurred not just years, but generations after their lifetimes is ludicrous.  Next Bachmann will try to tell us the founding fathers fought in and won World War II using nothing but Dodge Challengers, determined expressions, and a few flags. 

    Lincoln was not a founding father and slavery ended on his watch. This is not in dispute and only a moron, or Michelle Bachmann, (redundant?) would botch somethng that is actually quite simple.  A simple time line shows that her reading of history is flat out wrong.  How this even up for debate? 
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'



     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    "The founders did not work to end slavery, they were too busy trying to get the country up and running and as mentioned many owned slaves themselves.  The founders weren't demigods they were men, as imperfect as any other, but to attribute to them something that occurred not just years, but generations after their lifetimes is ludicrous." 

    So you disagree with this statement?

    "when the fathers of the government cut off the source of slavery by the abolition of the slave trade, and adopted a system of restricting it from the new Territories where it had not existed, I maintain that they placed it where they understood, and all sensible men understood, it was in the course of ultimate extinction..." 
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    Did she happen to mention where the founders stood on ethanol subsidies...?

    No...??
     
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    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    "The founders did not work to end slavery, they were too busy trying to get the country up and running and as mentioned many owned slaves themselves.  The founders weren't demigods they were men, as imperfect as any other, but to attribute to them something that occurred not just years, but generations after their lifetimes is ludicrous."  So you disagree with this statement? "when the fathers of the government cut off the source of slavery by the abolition of the slave trade, and adopted a system of restricting it from the new Territories where it had not existed, I maintain that they placed it where they understood, and all sensible men understood, it was in the course of ultimate extinction..." 
    Posted by BobinVa


    There was less than a million slaves in 1800 and there were close to four million slaves in 1860.  Numbers don't lie.   It was hardly on its way to extinction.  The South fought tooth and nail to keep it.  Sure, some of the founders hoped it would just fade away, but they were hardly united in that feeling and there were a series of compromises conducted that kept it viable (and let it grow).

    In any event, Bachman is still wrong on the history.  Why do you still support her?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    No offense, but I side with Lincoln over Stephen Douglas, on the issue of whether the Founders wanted to set slavery on a path to extinction.

    Not all the Founders, of course. And the length of time it took to finally end slavery, is irrelevant to the issue of whether men like John Adams thought it should end.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    In Response to Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead':
    So you disagree with this statement?

     "when the fathers of the government cut off the source of slavery by the abolition of the slave trade, and adopted a system of restricting it from the new Territories where it had not existed, I maintain that they placed it where they understood, and all sensible men understood, it was in the course of ultimate extinction..." 
    Posted by BobinVa


    The source was cut off due to provisions in the constitution that allowed slavery to continue for 20 years before any changes could be made by the government concerning the practice, including the importation of slaves.  In other words, when the constitution was being framed the founders PUNTED on addressing and outlawing slavery because there was no consensus among them.  And even after importation of new slaves was outlawed the slave trade continued as slaves from the eastern portion of the south were relocated to deep south to work on massive plantations, thus setting the stage for southern reliance on slavery for economic gain, which directly led to friction with the north, which in turn led to the civil war. 
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: MSNBC's Chris Matthews goes ballistic, calls Bachman a ' balloonhead'

    It's about Bachmoon's statement that:
    '...the Founding Fathers..'. She didn't say 'some'. 'a few' or even 'most'. She was referring to all of them.

    Was Lincoln also 'obviously wrong', then? Lincoln referred to the "fathers of the government" ; he didnt say some, or even 'most'....
     
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