My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:


    Are you suggesting that Martin would have been foolish to be unconcerned that an unidentified person who is not a police officer is following him around in the dark?



    No but, it doesnt give cause for attacking him.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    If someone suspicious is stalking you, you cannot stand your ground with your fists.

    If someone punches you, you can stand your ground by shooting them dead.

     



    lol If someone is physically attacked they have a right to stand their ground and defend themselves. If someone thinks someone may be stalking them they do not have the right to  walk out and attack that person.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    The medical report stated that he experienced nausea and dizziness days later which is consistent with a concussion.

     

     

     

     I  have a funny feeling that again, that medical "report" is just recounting Zimmerman's own hearsay statements about how he felt back then.



    LOL I'm sure you do

    It was deemed "admissible" so, there must have been some relevance

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    a social narrative that says WE SHOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES WITH A GUN.


    The social narrative and the law sayous you do not have that right unless you reasonably believe your life is in danger.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I'd make one exception and go over to the gun rights side on the question of home invasion: I think your life should be more or less forfeit if you break into someone's house and they happen to have a gun......

    .....at least, as long as you aren't lying face down surrendering to them. I don't believe in sadistic killings. My point is that the homeowner shouldn't have the burden of making careful calculations in the dark about whether the burglar might have a knife, gun, etc.

     

     

    However, I see something wrong with the concept that people can initiate a confrontation/fight, and then shoot the other person dead upon developing a fear that they might lose the fight they started.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    So do you feel that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation/fight?

     

     

     

     

     

    Just becuase he didn't stay put doesn't mean he initiated the confrontation/fight.

    Yes he followed and Martin didn't like it as can be ascertained from his phone with Jeantel when he stated that there is a "crazy a33 cracker" following him, choice of words does give a glimpse of his state of mind.

    The actual start of the confrontation after that point is a little gray.  It could be that Martin was frustrated had enough turned and directly confronted Zimmerman or he intercepted immerman who had turned around and was heading to his vehicle.  How it started reaaly doesn't matter.  The crime started with Martin striking Zimmerman in the face breaking his nose and then proceeding to to knock him down and strike his head to the pavement (aggravated assault and battery has occured) at which time Zimmerman defended himself the only way he could with his gun.

     

     

     

     



    No, the crime started when Zimmerman started chasing Martin - the crime is called 'menacing' and any accidental death that results is by definition 'manslaughter'.

     

     

     

     

    If Martin was frustrated and turned to confront Zimmerman, than Zimmerman's version of events are a lie.  According to Zimmerman, he returned to his vehicle after the 911 call and then went to look at a street sign where Martin was waiting to ambush him.  Come on.

     

     

     

     



    The only reference to menacing in FL law has to do with dogs.  Some state's have menacing laws tied to brandishing guns in a menacing way, but that happened late in the interaction.

     

     

     

        Title XLV
    TORTS Chapter 767 
    DAMAGE BY DOGS View Entire Chapter 767.11  Definitions. As used in this act, unless the context clearly requires otherwise: (1)  “Dangerous dog” means any dog that according to the records of the appropriate authority: (a)  Has aggressively bitten, attacked, or endangered or has inflicted severe injury on a human being on public or private property; (b)  Has more than once severely injured or killed a domestic animal while off the owner’s property; or (c)  Has, when unprovoked, chased or approached a person upon the streets, sidewalks, or any public grounds in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, provided that such actions are attested to in a sworn statement by one or more persons and dutifully investigated by the appropriate authority.

     

     

     


    In Florida, it's called "aggravated stalking" - the manslaughter charge is called "aggravated manslaughter" and there is even a special statute that applies to minors under the age of 18.

     

    A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(2)(b) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

     

     



    Apparently the prosecution didn't see it that way.

     




    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     




    Celebrate?

     

    What is the actual evidence that aggrevated manslaugter of a child occurred?

    Every murder is a homicide but, every homicide is not murder or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

    The EVIDENCE did not support your feelings or theory!

    It is ignorant statements like this that keep the country divided!

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     




    Celebrate?

     

    What is the actual evidence that aggrevated manslaugter of a child occurred?

    Every murder is a homicide but, every homicide is not murder or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

    The EVIDENCE did not support your feelings or theory!

    It is ignorant statements like this that keep the country divided!



    Zimmerman's version of events supports aggravated manslaughter of a child.  Martin is dead and was 17, so all that's left to fit the definition is culpable negligence, meaning did Zimmerman fail to use reasonable caution that put somebody in harm's way.  Chasing Martin through an alley with a gun is not reasonable caution.  Shooting a lighter unarmed man in the chest during a fist-fight is not reasonable caution.

     

     

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    I can't say I am surprised at the verdict...a bit disappointed in the whole process to be honest..but not surprised.

    I felt at times that it was Martin on trial..not Zimmerman. There are some bottom line things that I can't get away from.

    A 17 year old boy is dead. But for the bad decisions made by Zimmerman..Martin would be alive today.

    Based on what we know..which is about the same as what the jury knew..this case was doomed from the beginning. We only have one side of the story..Zimmerman's, but there are some things we know.

    We know from the 911 call that Martin started running. We know that the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow him. We know that Martin did not have a gun. We know that Zimmerman did.  I can't get past the idea that Martin had as much right to defend himself as Zimmerman did..

    I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of racism. I think he is guilty of profiling..of making assumptions about a male walking through his neighborhood in a hoodie. I think based on the way Martin was dressed, Zimmerman assumed he was a criminal..as evidenced from his comments to the 911 operator.

    I look at the broader picture here. If Zimmerman had not been carrying a gun..none of this would have happened. Does anyone in their right mind really think Zimmerman would have followed Martin if he wasn't armed? One defense witness after another got up and said Zimmerman was essentially a coward..so without that gun..Zimmerman is staying in his car. You can bet the bank on that.

    Hopefully..this is a rare situation..but really these are the types of things that happen when you have permissive gun laws. 1008 other people were killed in FL from guns.

    Zimmerman may not be sitting in a jail cell..but he's going to pay for his actions that night for the rest of his life. The homeowner's association has already settled a lawsuit from the Martin family to the tune of 1+ million. Zimmerman will be next on the list of civil lawsuits and the parents will probably prevail.

    Sad and tragic situation. Ironic that Zimmerman declined to pursue the Stand your Ground defense. Stand your Ground laws need to be looked at. Any law that makes killing a human being should be held to extraordinary scrutiny.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     




    Celebrate?

     

    What is the actual evidence that aggrevated manslaugter of a child occurred?

    Every murder is a homicide but, every homicide is not murder or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

    The EVIDENCE did not support your feelings or theory!

    It is ignorant statements like this that keep the country divided!

     

     



    Zimmerman's version of events supports aggravated manslaughter of a child.  Martin is dead and was 17, so all that's left to fit the definition is culpable negligence, meaning did Zimmerman fail to use reasonable caution that put somebody in harm's way.  Chasing Martin through an alley with a gun is not reasonable caution.  Shooting a lighter unarmed man in the chest during a fist-fight is not reasonable caution.

     

     

     

     

     



    What does Trayvon being "lighter" have to do with anything? I've lost count of the times I've seen a much smaller guy tune up a much bigger guy in a fight. 

     

    I also didn't realize it was officially reported that Zimmerman chased Trayvon through an alley with his gun out. Interesting.

     

    How many of those lighter guys wound up shot in the chest?  None?  Then maybe it was reckless behavior.

    Zimmerman says on the 911 call that Martin is running, and he's following him.  Running and following equals chasing.  He doesn't come out and say he's armed, but since he was armed when "looking at a street sign" it's not really a leap for the jury.

    Open and shut.

     

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

     

     

    I find it absolutely amazing that the largest thread we have on the "political" forum is about a trial that has absolutely NO impact on the future of our country. I have refrained from posting in here mostly because I didn't pay any attention to the trial. I think Zimmerman is an idiot, but I'd suspect he is innocent of any crime under the law.

     

    Either way it doesn't affect me or you if Zimmerman is innocent or guilty.

     

    Things going on right now that are more important:

     

    - The US Government killing people without trial (Dorner)

    - The US Government bombing people in the middle east based on age, sex and location (signiture strikes)

    - The US Government executing the friend of the Boston Bomber while was unarmed.

    - The US Government sending weapons to the Syrian rebels (read: Al Qaeda)

    - The US Government escalating tensions between us and Iran.

    - The US Government spying on its own citizens to ensure none of us are "terrorist". (we are all the enemy now?)

    - The US Governments insane abuse of power.

     

    You will notice I said nothing about Snowden, because the outcome of ES has very little impact on the country as well. The information he released is of MUCH more importance.

     

    The government wants us so badly to be concerned with the Trayvon/Zimmerman case because it divides us against ourselves. Instead of concerning us with the militarization of the police in this country, because that pins us against the powers that be.  We have fallen right into the trap!

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    I can't say I am surprised at the verdict...a bit disappointed in the whole process to be honest..but not surprised.

    I felt at times that it was Martin on trial..not Zimmerman. There are some bottom line things that I can't get away from.

    A 17 year old boy is dead. But for the bad decisions made by Zimmerman..Martin would be alive today.

    Based on what we know..which is about the same as what the jury knew..this case was doomed from the beginning. We only have one side of the story..Zimmerman's, but there are some things we know.

    We know from the 911 call that Martin started running. We know that the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow him. We know that Martin did not have a gun. We know that Zimmerman did.  I can't get past the idea that Martin had as much right to defend himself as Zimmerman did..

    I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of racism. I think he is guilty of profiling..of making assumptions about a male walking through his neighborhood in a hoodie. I think based on the way Martin was dressed, Zimmerman assumed he was a criminal..as evidenced from his comments to the 911 operator.

    I look at the broader picture here. If Zimmerman had not been carrying a gun..none of this would have happened. Does anyone in their right mind really think Zimmerman would have followed Martin if he wasn't armed? One defense witness after another got up and said Zimmerman was essentially a coward..so without that gun..Zimmerman is staying in his car. You can bet the bank on that.

    Hopefully..this is a rare situation..but really these are the types of things that happen when you have permissive gun laws. 1008 other people were killed in FL from guns.

    Zimmerman may not be sitting in a jail cell..but he's going to pay for his actions that night for the rest of his life. The homeowner's association has already settled a lawsuit from the Martin family to the tune of 1+ million. Zimmerman will be next on the list of civil lawsuits and the parents will probably prevail.

    Sad and tragic situation. Ironic that Zimmerman declined to pursue the Stand your Ground defense. Stand your Ground laws need to be looked at. Any law that makes killing a human being should be held to extraordinary scrutiny.

    " Above all..be the heroine in your life..not the victim" Nora Ephron



    How can you possibly say is seemed like Martin was on trial?  Did you watch any of the coverage?  Apparently not.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     




    Celebrate?

     

    What is the actual evidence that aggrevated manslaugter of a child occurred?

    Every murder is a homicide but, every homicide is not murder or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

    The EVIDENCE did not support your feelings or theory!

    It is ignorant statements like this that keep the country divided!

     

     

     



    Zimmerman's version of events supports aggravated manslaughter of a child.  Martin is dead and was 17, so all that's left to fit the definition is culpable negligence, meaning did Zimmerman fail to use reasonable caution that put somebody in harm's way.  Chasing Martin through an alley with a gun is not reasonable caution.  Shooting a lighter unarmed man in the chest during a fist-fight is not reasonable caution.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    What does Trayvon being "lighter" have to do with anything? I've lost count of the times I've seen a much smaller guy tune up a much bigger guy in a fight. 

     

     

    I also didn't realize it was officially reported that Zimmerman chased Trayvon through an alley with his gun out. Interesting.

     

     

     

    How many of those lighter guys wound up shot in the chest?  None?  Then maybe it was reckless behavior.

    Zimmerman says on the 911 call that Martin is running, and he's following him.  Running and following equals chasing.  He doesn't come out and say he's armed, but since he was armed when "looking at a street sign" it's not really a leap for the jury.

    Open and shut.

     



    Thank god you were not on the jury, because it is apparent that you come into this with a already formed opinion that will not be changed by the facts.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: My 2 Cents on the Zimmerman case

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    I agree - the prosecution chose the wrong felony charge from the get-go.  It just seems like a very strange and twisted thing for conservatives to celebrate.  Aggravated manslaughter of a child is an open and shut case.

     




    Celebrate?

     

    What is the actual evidence that aggrevated manslaugter of a child occurred?

    Every murder is a homicide but, every homicide is not murder or 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

    The EVIDENCE did not support your feelings or theory!

    It is ignorant statements like this that keep the country divided!

     

     

     

     



    Zimmerman's version of events supports aggravated manslaughter of a child.  Martin is dead and was 17, so all that's left to fit the definition is culpable negligence, meaning did Zimmerman fail to use reasonable caution that put somebody in harm's way.  Chasing Martin through an alley with a gun is not reasonable caution.  Shooting a lighter unarmed man in the chest during a fist-fight is not reasonable caution.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    What does Trayvon being "lighter" have to do with anything? I've lost count of the times I've seen a much smaller guy tune up a much bigger guy in a fight. 

     

     

     

    I also didn't realize it was officially reported that Zimmerman chased Trayvon through an alley with his gun out. Interesting.

     

     

     

     

     

    How many of those lighter guys wound up shot in the chest?  None?  Then maybe it was reckless behavior.

    Zimmerman says on the 911 call that Martin is running, and he's following him.  Running and following equals chasing.  He doesn't come out and say he's armed, but since he was armed when "looking at a street sign" it's not really a leap for the jury.

    Open and shut.

     

     



    Thank god you were not on the jury, because it is apparent that you come into this with a already formed opinion that will not be changed by the facts.

     



    I wouldn't have convicted him of Murder 2, but if the jury had a better grasp of what manslaughter charges really meant, they surely would have convicted on this charge.  Look at the CNN interview with the Juror - she knows Zimmerman was guilty of something, she just doesn't know what.  If you had polled the jury "do you think Zimmerman was reckless in his decision-making" you would have had an anonymous "yes" and that's all you needed for this type of manslaughter.

    So my point is stop celebrating the guy - he's not a murderer, but he is a felon.  No more "Zim's going to kick MSNBCs a55!".  No more setting his picture next to a dead 17-year-old as your avatar.  

     
Sections
Shortcuts