No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PS911fan. Show PS911fan's posts

    No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022561.php

    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201002240063

    The latest RW meme is to conflate the nuclear option (created by GOP to end the filiabuster) with the reconciliation process....the video shows how the RW congressmen and senators out and out LIE about what the process is KNOWING how the process was used to pass many key pieces of legislation including the Bush tax cuts.

    Once you watch the video (especially the statements from Judd Gregg), everyone should just sit back and just tell the truth for once....

    Supporting articles with video or more facts:

    http://preview.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124009985&live=1



    http://mediamatters.org/research/201002240066


    http://www.congressmatters.com/story/2009/8/20/20309/1501







     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    PS

    Yes both both parties have used reconciliation in the past to get what they want.  But at this point in time with the Healthcare reform issue polarizing the country never mind normal partisan politics, it is not the time to use reconciliation.  The people don't want it and their is little support for it beyond the Blue blog environments, as an example it is one of the primary reasons that Scott Brown was elected to the Senate to be the 41st vote against the current Healthcare Bill. 

    The message from the people has been to go back to the drawing board and create a thoughtful bill that people can understand, not an ill conceived 2000 + page bill that is so cumbersome and full of items and consequences that are not understood.  In addition, the people want to get the economy under control before we start looking at enhancements/creation of new entitlement programs.  Lastly you're right; it is ironic that the GOP is now the protector of Medicare when the LW Progressive Dems are willing to negatively impacts seniors to get a pet vision passed.

    One last thing; if the Dems really got it, they would go back to basics and listen to the people.  If they head down the path of reconciliation the upcoming midterm elections will set the Dems back 30 years not just 8 years.  The progressives tend to listen to their own small constituency too much and forget they are not the majority of the Dems, they just happen to be the most vocal.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PS911fan. Show PS911fan's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    PS Yes both both parties have used reconciliation in the past to get what they want.  But at this point in time with the Healthcare reform issue polarizing the country never mind normal partisan politics, it is not the time to use reconciliation.  The people don't want it and their is little support for it beyond the Blue blog environments, as an example it is one of the primary reasons that Scott Brown was elected to the Senate to be the 41st vote against the current Healthcare Bill.  The message from the people has been to go back to the drawing board and create a thoughtful bill that people can understand, not an ill conceived 2000 + page bill that is so cumbersome and full of items and consequences that are not understood.  In addition, the people want to get the economy under control before we start looking at enhancements/creation of new entitlement programs.  Lastly you're right; it is ironic that the GOP is now the protector of Medicare when the LW Progressive Dems are willing to negatively impacts seniors to get a pet vision passed. One last thing; if the Dems really got it, they would go back to basics and listen to the people.  If they head down the path of reconciliation the upcoming midterm elections will set the Dems back 30 years not just 8 years.  The progressives tend to listen to their own small constituency too much and forget they are not the majority of the Dems, they just happen to be the most vocal.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe

    I dont recall you being so concerned about polarization during the time when the most polarizing president in history, George W. Bush forced through several items that were highly controversial during his 2 terms.

    the rest of your comments support the RW argument about "starting from scratch" but most people hated the sausage making process the senate went through......but people do want health care and and they do want a public option.....your comments are fairly spurious ...especially on GOP protecting Medicare and the idea that Dems actually want to hurt seniors....sounds like you love those imaginary death panels......your fav Sarah Pailin continues to whine about and people like you keep passing around as truth.....your comments on those issues are frankly FALSE.

    Not passing health care will affect the dems way more. People need to really understand the bill and the Dems have not done a good job of focusing on the main points. the GOP has not been honest in the smallest bit on this bill and that is wrong.

    You have also not addressed the lie here.....why do you give the GOP a pass on calling reconciliation the nuclear option when it is very clear that is was not the same as the name given to the stop the fillibuster effort. Why do you give a pass to Fox who played video of Dem leaders and the president speaking about the end of the fillabuster as if they were speaking about the reconciliation process. 

    You claim the GOP has the better interest here, if so then why the massive lies?



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sk8ter2008. Show sk8ter2008's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    Obama may want to try the reconciliation to attach a bill that affects 1/6 of our economy and has little public support but, the dems in the house and senate may want to be re-elected in nov and because of that may not vote for it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1984-Redux. Show 1984-Redux's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    Sk8ter.. wake up. You're having a nightmare.
    Dems have and WILL continue to always do the 'right thing' (for them) over the needs of the country. I have great belief that the Dems will vote for themselves AND their self preservation. I can see them now .. on the train station platform as the train departs the station and Obama waves from the caboose.. alone.

    Bye bye Bama !!  The beginning of the end. 

    Note: political parachutte sales in Washington have skyrocketed. Time to bail.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"


    I dont recall you being so concerned about polarization during the time when the most polarizing president in history, George W. Bush forced through several items that were highly controversial during his 2 terms.

    the rest of your comments support the RW argument about "starting from scratch" but most people hated the sausage making process the senate went through......but people do want health care and and they do want a public option.....your comments are fairly spurious ...especially on GOP protecting Medicare and the idea that Dems actually want to hurt seniors....sounds like you love those imaginary death panels......your fav Sarah Pailin continues to whine about and people like you keep passing around as truth.....your comments on those issues are frankly FALSE.

    Not passing health care will affect the dems way more. People need to really understand the bill and the Dems have not done a good job of focusing on the main points. the GOP has not been honest in the smallest bit on this bill and that is wrong.

    You have also not addressed the lie here.....why do you give the GOP a pass on calling reconciliation the nuclear option when it is very clear that is was not the same as the name given to the stop the fillibuster effort. Why do you give a pass to Fox who played video of Dem leaders and the president speaking about the end of the fillabuster as if they were speaking about the reconciliation process. 

    You claim the GOP has the better interest here, if so then why the massive lies?

    PS,

    Let's see Bush was Polarizing for the Dems thats true.  It was due to that bad war thing after 911 and the impatience of the American people.  Much like the impatience with Obama who campaigned on gettng us right out of Iraq and not expanding in Afghanistan, ah beut then there is the reality of leadership, if you give Obama a pass you must give one to Bush.

    You're absolutely right people hated the secret deals of the Senate sausage process, so scrap it and start over, unless you support the rotten sausage plan.  I talked about Medicare, not the Palin or RW BS of death panels that's your issue not mine.

    I couldn't view the video its blocked from my location.

    But Healthcare is too important to pass with the Seante sausage and it is outrageous to make such a large change with reconciliation and a simple majority.  I would favor an amendment requiring 61% majority for all major programs, decisons and budgets.  This goes equally whether the Dems have the majority or the GOP has the majority.  I'd be happiest if we had a 3 party system of Left, Moderate, Right.  Unless there was real concensus nothing would get done.

    Help me understand the massive lies, not just opinions.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    The thread is about lies, huh?

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi today at the health summit:
    "It's about jobs. In it's life, it [the health bill] will create 4 million jobs -- 400,000 jobs almost immediately."

    There have been some whoppers, but this takes the cake.

    Unless she means, 400,000 government bureaucrat jobs?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from gs11bmm. Show gs11bmm's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    But Healthcare is too important to pass with the Seante sausage and it is outrageous to make such a large change with reconciliation and a simple majority.  I would favor an amendment requiring 61% majority for all major programs, decisons and budgets.  This goes equally whether the Dems have the majority or the GOP has the majority.  I'd be happiest if we had a 3 party system of Left, Moderate, Right.  Unless there was real concensus nothing would get done. Help me understand the massive lies, not just opinions.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe


    Health-care reform has a 10-year cost of about $950 billion. The Bush tax cuts, which passed through reconciliation, had a 10-year cost of about $1.8 trillion.  Reconciliation has also been used to address health-care at least 9 times previously, and almost exclusively by Republicans (3 times under Reagan, twice by Bush 41, and once under Dubya for SCHIP).  You do what COBRA is, right?  That little federal law that mandates you can keep your helath insurance in the event you lose your job?  You also know that COBRA is an acronym for the Consolidated Omnibus Budget RECONCILIATION Act of 1986, and that act was signed into law by Reagan ... right?

    Help Me understand the massive lies ...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    I don't see why it's so important for the average American to understand the bill, since so many of them have no clue what they're talking about on any given day.

    A large percentage of Americans still don't understand why they took "Love Connection" off the air....



    "Wrong.  A person is smart.  People are dumb, panicky, dangerous, animals and you know it."
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    Matty,

    Well this person wants to understand what the bill is going to do,  and the people have a right to know and have the expectation that their elected official knows what is in the bill.  Overall you come off a little elitist here.

    Sorry about you love connection loss.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    Interesting how it was democrats (Bob Byrd in particular) that determined that HC reform didn't meet budget reconciliation muster back in '94.  I guess things "change"
    Posted by GreginMeffa

    They do. This bill will reduce the deficit.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    The thread is about lies, huh? Speaker Nancy Pelosi today at the health summit: "It's about jobs. In it's life, it [the health bill] will create 4 million jobs -- 400,000 jobs almost immediately." There have been some whoppers, but this takes the cake. Unless she means, 400,000 government bureaucrat jobs?
    Posted by BobinVa


    Of Course you have some valid data that would prove your point.
    I didn't think so.
    But that doesn't stop the wingnuts from spouting lies at every opportunity.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    12,

    "This bill will reduce the deficit."

    If you really believe that I have a 2010 Toyata Prius with great acceleration to sell you.

    Government problems are always under estiamted from the cost perspective and over estimate in savings by a facto of five to 10.

    Our local Big Dig experience; original estimate in 1980 $2.5B in 1980 dollars, in the end it was $14.6B but if you count the cost of money it was $22B.  This is where government leaders play the numbers game.  In the end figures lie and liars figure.  With the Big Dig we actually got something in return.  I have no confidence in the big healthcare package.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    "I don't see why it's so important for the average American to understand the bill, since so many of them have no clue what they're talking about on any given day"

    Ah, the essence of liberalism....the people are too stupid (except when they voted for Obama)
    Thanks be to God we have liberals running our lives, otherwise what would happen? 
    The hardworking government bureaucrats working 10 to 2, except on holidays, fingers to the bone until they retire at 50 with a 6 figure pension...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    12, "This bill will reduce the deficit." If you really believe that I have a 2010 Toyata Prius with great acceleration to sell you. Government problems are always under estiamted from the cost perspective and over estimate in savings by a facto of five to 10. Our local Big Dig experience; original estimate in 1980 $2.5B in 1980 dollars, in the end it was $14.6B but if you count the cost of money it was $22B.  This is where government leaders play the numbers game.  In the end figures lie and liars figure.  With the Big Dig we actually got something in return.  I have no confidence in the big healthcare package.
    Posted by massmoderateJoe

    Everything either side says is based on guesstimates. In this case it's the non-partisan CBO making the estimate. They've got some pretty good numbers guys over there. If you look at some of their costs estimates in the past, they've been spot on. 
    If you have a 'gut feeling' about costs then please don't be offended if I go with the CBO on this one.
    As for the big dig... That was locally run and included cost-plus contracts. 
    This is a law that sets prices, the opposite of cost-plus contracts, so no comparison.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    "I don't see why it's so important for the average American to understand the bill, since so many of them have no clue what they're talking about on any given day" Ah, the essence of liberalism....the people are too stupid (except when they voted for Obama) Thanks be to God we have liberals running our lives, otherwise what would happen?  The hardworking government bureaucrats working 10 to 2, except on holidays, fingers to the bone until they retire at 50 with a 6 figure pension...
    Posted by BobinVa
    I think chiefhowie would disagree on your generalization of gov't workers. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
     "I pray God when the Democrats take back control we don't make the kind of naked power grab you are doing."...... Then Sen. Biden commenting on the threat of Republicans using the "nuclear option" to get some judges up for a vote. PS911fan - it's politics, get over it. 
    Posted by Newtster
    Then the wingnuts shouldn't get bent out of shape when the dems 'play politics'.
    Get over it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1984-Redux. Show 1984-Redux's posts

    Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option"

    In Response to Re: No escaping this RW LIE - reconciliation as "nuclear option":
    I don't see why it's so important for the average American to understand the bill, since so many of them have no clue what they're talking about on any given day. Posted by Mattyhorn


    No sarcasm from this cynic. Nothing demeaning. You make strong points.
    Dismissing the American public from understanding the biggest change to our society in history at a cost that will put generations into debt while lowering the quality of the best health care on the planet and putting it in the hands of an inept/corrupt government?
    Maybe you could have put a little more thought into this one Matty.

    Kind regards, G. Orwell
     
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