Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]I'm always amazed when seemingly sane people deny that man can influence nature.  Nevermind the facts or the science, these people just devoutly believe that nothing man does can affect nature and that fits the definition of insanity.
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    You comparing or confusing "nature" and "global climate change"???
    Really?

    Of course man affects nature!!
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]I'm always amazed when seemingly sane people deny that man can influence nature.  Nevermind the facts or the science, these people just devoutly believe that nothing man does can affect nature and that fits the definition of insanity.
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    Not denying the influence.  a leaf falling in Peking influences the weather. 

    Just not on board with the key tenets of this pagan religion called global warming. 

    Should we clean up pollution?  Of Course.  Should we be careful with our resources?  Of course.  Should we try to indoctrinate people, including school children with the posit that man is a major factor in global warming?  No.  the science is wanting.
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    Of course there is a manmade component of impact but the $64K question is how much and how much is cyclical, how much is tied to solar activity or cosmic rays.  This is where figures lie and liars figure.

     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!! : Not denying the influence.  a leaf falling in Peking influences the weather.  Just not on board with the key tenets of this pagan religion called global warming.  Should we clean up pollution?  Of Course.  Should we be careful with our resources?  Of course.  Should we try to indoctrinate people, including school children with the posit that man is a major factor in global warming?  No.  the science is wanting.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    Amen skeeter, well said.
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]The science is not wanting.  What is wanting is a credible explanation of how the prloliferation of modern culture (industrialism, consumerism, advances in living standards, deforestation, pavement, biological undiversity) can have no impact.  Sometimes you just have to admit that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck there is believe it or not a pretty decent chance it actually is a duck.
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    Again; it's not that thise things have "no impact" of course they do. Pavements cause a disruption in b=natural water drainage, deforestation with re-seeding can have long term effiects on eco-systems and air quality but, that's not the point and you know it.
    The claim is that man (industy, transportation) is emitting "greenhouse gases" that will cause irrepairable damage to the earth and mass casualties or destruction of mankind to a great extent.

    That simple is not true!
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!! : At what percentage do we say ah fuggit that's some other generation's problem?  10%? 35%? 75%?  And what rational person believes that if a percentage cannot not be known in advance assume 0%?
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    I think most of it is due to the natural cylce.  Maybe 1/3 is man induced.  Does that mean we ignore it no, we need to transition to cleaner energy but we need to develop and perfect it before we roll it out on a mandated grand scale.

    I'm all about moderation.

     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]The science is not wanting.  What is wanting is a credible explanation of how the prloliferation of modern culture (industrialism, consumerism, advances in living standards, deforestation, pavement, biological undiversity) can have no impact.  Sometimes you just have to admit that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck there is believe it or not a pretty decent chance it actually is a duck.
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    That science cannot explain it means that the science is wanting.
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!! : Don't tell me what I know, Professor.  It simply is true.  Its as true as the Big Bang, magnetism, and gravity.  All these things you cannot explain, but science can.  Just because you are too stupid to understand, too obtuse to comprehend, and too lazy to learn does not make it untrue.  There are millions of true things you do not understand.
    Posted by movingtarget3[/QUOTE]

    I'd be careful what what you'd categorize as an absolute truth.  If what CERN reported yesterday is accurate and can be validated by other sources, than what we've deemed as truth in physics just got turned upside down
     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    Don't tell me what I know, Professor.  It simply is true.  Its as true as the Big Bang, magnetism, and gravity.  All these things you cannot explain, but science can.  Just because you are too stupid to understand, too obtuse to comprehend, and too lazy to learn does not make it untrue.  There are millions of true things you do not understand.


    Very telling. Just YOU stating it is true and making comparisons between global effects does not make it true.
    Ahhh and then the anticipated attack and associated ambiguity.

    You must be vested in Al Gores money making machine
     OR
    Be completely naive and trusting to their self serving interests.

    Remember Chicken Little? You MUST !!




     
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    Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!

    In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nobel Prize winner resigns over description of global warming being caused by man is incontrovertible!! : But that supports what we're saying about global warming. If those results hold, that is one set of scientists using one of two means to pull the rug out of established and accepted theory. In peer reviewed experiments. That's completely different from some politician calling 98% of scientists in the field liars who are committing fraud for funding, nevermind the coal dust wafting from the utter b*stard's pockets. And it's also completely different from some self-identified conservative popping on BDC and insisting that because he personally doubts man is causing global warming based on seven years of cool temperatures. The problem in the global warming debate is that the underlying theory has not been disproven, and the facts are still to be coming in for some time. They appear to have convinced 98% of scientists in the field that man is most likely causing some warming through emissions; there are disputes about how much warming; there are disputes about what its effects will be. That's not a dispute about the fundamentals. If the 2% dissenters want to be vindicated they need to either accumulate a lot more data, come up with a compelling reinterpretation of data, or pull the rug out from under some fundamental aspect of the theory. Sort of like how these people said "hey, um, we think we might have just broken special relativity; please try this at home and confirm whether or not we screwed up" THAT hasn't happened yet, and THAT is why it's dangerous to listen to the absolute deniers. The whole point is that the serious warming is just barely getting started, and we can't very well wait 50 years and see. Because if 98% of scientists in the field are right, it will be too late to reverse at that point. It won't matter if we stop all emissions. I'd rather not completely screw over my children, even if I may not be here to see it.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    Excellent and very revelant points all around.  I was simply pointing out that stating "it's settled science, everyone agrees with it" isn't necessarily a valid enough answer if it turns out that one of the cornerstones of physics for the past century is turned on its head

    Having said that I agree that we need to heed the advice of our best and brightest, but we need to take into account that while 98% agrees man has an impact on climate, they can't quantify that impact.  I think this helps fuel skepticsm from those middle of the road folks that are on the fence (the hard-core skeptics are a lost cause, true of any fringe group of deniers),  we're told that its a certainity but we can't back it up with anything more concrete.

    Without that knowledge, I think we need to tread lightly on what to/not to do and how it'll impact what is looking to be a fragile economy.  Too draconian an plan that more of the extreme MMGW believers would propose could be devastating, and to quote your close "I'd rather not completely screw over my children, even if I may not be here to see it" if our impact turns out to be insignifican
     

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