Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

    Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare to Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums by 64-146%

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to bigdog2's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

    Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare to Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums by 64-146%

     

     




     

    No, No, No,.............this cannot be.  Airborne-angryguy told us just last week that O-care was saving all kinds of money in California.  Who do we trust.....Forbes or angryman? 



    Gotta go with Airborne...he knows all. How dare you even doubt him....shame on you...shame, shame on you...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    angry got his info from Paul Krugman. Here is where he went wrong:

    Writers sometimes worry if a day will come when they have nothing more to say. As long as Paul Krugman is around, I will never have that worry.

    Boston University professor, Lawrence Kotlikoff has suggested that Krugman return his Nobel Prize. I hope he doesn’t. As long as someone with Krugman’s professional status gets his facts wrong in column after column, and does so in an arrogant and pompous manner, attacking the integrity and hurling insults at all who disagree with him…well, there will always be a market for a writer who is able to show that the scourge of sensible people everywhere has written one more erroneous editorial.

    Krugman may not always be wrong. On some economic issues he may actually be right. But when it comes to health care, he almost never misses. He is wrong 100% of the time.

    In Monday’s New York Times column Krugman pronounced ObamaCare a success before it has even been tried. Why? Because the premiums to be charged in California health insurance exchange are apparently lower than what the experts thought they would be:

    Well, the California bids are in — that is, insurers have submitted the prices at which they are willing to offer coverage on the state’s newly created ObamaCare exchange. And the prices, it turns out, are surprisingly low. A handful of healthy people may find themselves paying more for coverage, but it looks as if ObamaCare’s first year in California is going to be an overwhelmingly positive experience.

    I did a quick check and discovered that if a 25-year-old in Los Angeles chooses the least expensive plan offered on the California health instance exchange, the premium will be $142 a month. Yet the cheapest plan offered on eHealth today is only $92 a month.

    Aah…let’s see…Everybody thought health insurance premiums would be 100% higher. In fact, they are only 60% higher…Hooray…Break out the champagne!

    I’ll come back to these price comparisons in a minute. For the moment, I would ask: what kind of an economist would celebrate an expected price decline without asking what happened to quantity or quality? This is an Econ 101 mistake.

    As it turns out the health insurance to be sold in the California exchange excludes some of the best hospitals and the best doctors. Also, the fees paid to providers will not be the same as commercial insurance are paying. They will be somewhere between the commercial rates and Medicare rates. This means that people with exchange acquired insurance will be less desirable to providers from a financial point of view than people in orthodox plans. As the Los Angeles Times explains:

    People who want UCLA Medical Center and its doctors in their health plan network next year, for instance, may have only one choice in California’s exchange: Anthem Blue Cross. Another major insurer in the state-run market, Blue Shield of California, said its exchange customers will be restricted to 36% of its regular physician network statewide.

    And Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, one of Southern California’s most prestigious and expensive hospitals, said it’s not included in any exchange plans at the moment.

    Krugman points to the experience of health reform in Massachusetts in predicting how wonderful health reform is going to be:

    Massachusetts has had essentially this system since 2006; as a result, nearly all residents have health insurance, and the program remains very popular. So we know that ObamaCare — or, as some of us call it, ObamaRomneyCare — can work.

    But what has really happened in the Bay state? Insurance sold in the Massachusetts exchange pays doctors and hospitals only about 10% more than what Medicaid pays.And for reasons that are not entirely clear, doctors are less willing to see the newly insured (with exchange subsidies) than Medicaid patients.

    The Massachusetts reformers believed that once everyone was insured, patients would go to the doctor’s office for primary care rather than to the hospital emergency room. But in expanding the demand for care, they (just like ObamaCare) did nothing about supply. The newly insured can’t go to doctors’ offices for their primary care if there aren’t any more doctors’ offices.

    Here is what is happening on the ground. Traffic to hospital emergency rooms in Massachusetts is higher today than before health reform. Traffic to community health centers is almost one-third higher than it was before reform. Yet, the time it takes to get care is growing. The wait to see a new doctor in Boston today is two months ― the longest wait in the entire country.

    On balance, the only thing that seems to have changed in Massachusetts is that patients are waiting longer. They are going to the same places to get care that they went to before. They are getting the same care from the same providers. In the process, more money is being moved around. A lot more money.

    Let’s return to the subject of California premiums. Krugman links to a Johnathan Cohn New Republic column claiming that premiums on the newly created healthy insurance exchange will actually be lower that they are today. Yet this assertion is based on comparing premiums in today’s small group market with expected individual premiums on the health insurance exchanges. That’s not the right comparison. Small group premiums are significantly higher than individual premiums in most states. The relevant comparison is today’s individual insurance premiums versus the individual premiums in the exchange. Exchange premiums are going to be higher.

    With health reform, California premiums will be higher than they are today, but the sticker shock will not be as severe as in other states. The reason: California already has unisex rate requirements. As a result the age differential for males (60-year-old versus 20-year-old) is already close to the 3 to 1 band required by ObamaCare. In states without unisex regulation, the age differential would be 6 to 1.

    Still, middle class families in California should brace themselves. The surprises in ObamaCare are going to be just as arbitrary and unfair on the west coast as they will be in the rest of the country.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2013/05/30/when-it-comes-to-healthcare-issues-paul-krugman-is-wrong-100-of-the-time/

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    Regardless of whatever good the ACA will bring to millions, Republicans will cherry pick its flaws and call it a miserable failure.

    One day America will have Single Payer system like the rest of the civilized world, and the Know Nothing wingnuts will love it and strenuously deny they ever opposed it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    Regardless of whatever good the ACA will bring to millions, Republicans will cherry pick its flaws and call it a miserable failure.

    One day America will have Single Payer system like the rest of the civilized world, and the Know Nothing wingnuts will love it and strenuously deny they ever opposed it.




    Its just a short boat ride to Cuba if, you really want that system of heathcare!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    Regardless of whatever good the ACA will bring to millions, Republicans will cherry pick its flaws and call it a miserable failure.

    One day America will have Single Payer system like the rest of the civilized world, and the Know Nothing wingnuts will love it and strenuously deny they ever opposed it.

     




    Its just a short boat ride to Cuba if, you really want that system of heathcare!

     




    Yeah those Cubans, Canadians, English, Swedes, Norwegians, French, etc all have it backwards, obtaining health care should be a battle to death where only the strong (and wealthy) survive.  Makes sense. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    I look forward to the day when I'll have to wait 6 months to get an MRI....should be fun times

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    I look forward to the day when I'll have to wait 6 months to get an MRI....should be fun times



    I had a relative that died because of that. He lived on prince edward island and the wait for an MRI was over a year and a half because they have 1, yes 1, MRI machine on the island. even on the mainland the wait was over 8 months. And when you have a disease that is killing you every second you arnt getting treatment, 8 months is far too long to wait.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    Gotta love that corporate sponsored content.  Makes ALEC look like pikers.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 



    BOOM!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:



    I had a relative that died because of that. He lived on prince edward island and the wait for an MRI was over a year and a half because they have 1, yes 1, MRI machine on the island. even on the mainland the wait was over 8 months. And when you have a disease that is killing you every second you arnt getting treatment, 8 months is far too long to wait.



    Sorry for your loss.

    It's the mentality of bring us all to the same level (of misery) since that's only fair.

    We should have a mentality of "give everyone the opportunity to have the best" help those that try and fail by giving them another opportunity.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 



    Were all of the charges for people from single-payer systems?  What would the costs of the same procedures have run in their native lands on average?

    There could be many reasons for medical tourism, both to and from the U.S.

    As with most things, people will pay whatever they can afford.

    Many foreign state-run plans will also pay for expenses incurred in the states.

     

     

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 




    More people leave this country for surgery abroad, than come to this country for surgery.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to UserName99's comment:


    More people leave this country for surgery abroad, than come to this country for surgery.




    Really?? any evidence of that??

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    I look forward to the day when I'll have to wait 6 months to get an MRI....should be fun times

     



    I had a relative that died because of that. He lived on prince edward island and the wait for an MRI was over a year and a half because they have 1, yes 1, MRI machine on the island. even on the mainland the wait was over 8 months. And when you have a disease that is killing you every second you arnt getting treatment, 8 months is far too long to wait.

     



    That is indeed tragic, if true.  I have family in the maritimes, too, and while PEI isn't far off-shore, it's sparse and rural which can add to its isolation.  (Same goes for parts of NS and NB.) Certain cancers are also over-represented on the island due to pesticide use - incidental perhaps, but salient.

     

     

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 

     




    More people leave this country for surgery abroad, than come to this country for surgery.

     

     



    Sure

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    At one of the Boston hospitals I work for there was $51M in charges for the International payer line for FY12. That's a hell of a lot of people coming from those "civilized" countries that have single payer systems. Seems odd that people from these "civilized" counties would come here when those other countries have a much better healthcare system than the US. 

     



    Were all of the charges for people from single-payer systems?  What would the costs of the same procedures have run in their native lands on average?

     

    There could be many reasons for medical tourism, both to and from the U.S.

    As with most things, people will pay whatever they can afford.

    Many foreign state-run plans will also pay for expenses incurred in the states.

     

     

     

     



    Missed the point entirely

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    I look forward to the day when I'll have to wait 6 months to get an MRI....should be fun times

     



    I had a relative that died because of that. He lived on prince edward island and the wait for an MRI was over a year and a half because they have 1, yes 1, MRI machine on the island. even on the mainland the wait was over 8 months. And when you have a disease that is killing you every second you arnt getting treatment, 8 months is far too long to wait.

     

     



    That is indeed tragic, if true.  I have family in the maritimes, too, and while PEI isn't far off-shore, it's sparse and rural which can add to its isolation.  (Same goes for parts of NS and NB.) Certain cancers are also over-represented on the island due to pesticide use - incidental perhaps, but salient.

     

     

     

     

     



    It is indeed very true matty. My grandpa lived with MS for quite a while getting treatment here in the US at the VA hospital. My great uncle ( the one who lived in PEI) was believed to of had late onset MS, and because of the level of healthcare treatment in canada, my grandpa ended up living almost 5 years longer than my great Uncle.Even though my grandpa had been diagnosed with MS 18 years earlier than my Great uncle.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    I did a quick check and discovered that if a 25-year-old in Los Angeles chooses the least expensive plan offered on the California health instance exchange, the premium will be $142 a month. Yet the cheapest plan offered on eHealth today is only $92 a month.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Comparing apples and ashtrays.

    The cheapest plan offered today are catastrophic plans that do not even cover doctor visits.

    Every plan on the exchange has a minimum requirement including preventive care and screenings.

    But hey, if you nitwits want to keep obfuscating the facts, knock yourselves out.



    Not to mention the fact that unless that 25-year-old is making $80K plus a year, he is eligible for subsidies.  The reality is he is probably paying less than $92/month for a far better plan.

     

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    Yup...another Boston hospital has $37.7M in charges for International business. That's a total of $88M for just TWO US hospitals.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Not only will the ACA drive premiums up in Ca. 64 to 146% the IRS will police it!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Here's another obfuscation in your piece.

    The Massachusetts reformers believed that once everyone was insured, patients would go to the doctor’s office for primary care rather than to the hospital emergency room....Traffic to hospital emergency rooms in Massachusetts is higher today than before health reform.

     

    If you follow that link this is what the study says:

    Low-severity visits among publicly subsidized or uninsured patients decreased from 43.8% to 41.2% of total visits for that group (difference=2.6%; 95% confidence interval [CI] 2.25% to 2.85%), whereas low-severity visits for privately insured and Medicare patients decreased from 35.7% to 34.9% of total visits for that group (difference=0.8%; 95% CI 0.62% to 0.98%), for a difference in differences of 1.8% (95% CI 1.7% to 1.9%).

     



    Wow..a whole 2.6% huh

    Of course the introduction of $100+ ER visit copays might have a little something to do with people changing their ER visit behavior...

     

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