Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    The President per usual demeaning his own country and pandering to an ethnic group;
    " Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land," President Obama told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
    Whoops, there were no "Mexicans" then, just Spanish subjects, as Mexico as a country was not recognized until 1821.

    Beyond that, what type of wishy-washy kumbaya statement is that? The British, French, Dutch or Spanish  did not practice 'diversity' back then; they only happened to "share the same land", when they were killing each other on a bloody battlefield.  
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Whoops, there were no "Mexicans" then, just Spanish subjects, as Mexico as a country was not recognized until 1821. Beyond that, what type of wishy-washy kumbaya statement is that? The British, French, Dutch or Spanish  did not practice 'diversity' back then; they only happened to "share the same land", when they were killing each other on a bloody battlefield.  
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    My guess is he was saying the people who lived in what would become Mexico (New Spain), since they weren't entirely spanish at that stage (as the spanish mixed more freely with the native popoulation than say the British did in the colonies). In a sense, the people of Mexico, preceded New Spain's independence from Spain.

    [QUOTE]The President per usual demeaning his own country and pandering to an ethnic group; " Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land," President Obama told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.[/QUOTE]

    Let me get this straight, acknowledging the historical reality that many people inhabited the americas prior to the creation of the united states is somehow anti american?
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    Let me get this straight: the fact that North America was colonized by different countries meant they "we all shared the same land [of plenty]". Did they hold hands and sing?
    Does he want Mexicans to come and share the land of plenty now?
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : When the truth hurts, the insults fly.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]
    some leftwing lunatic
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Let me get this straight: the fact that North America was colonized by different countries meant they "we all shared the same land [of plenty]". Did they hold hands and sing? Does he want Mexicans to come and share the land of plenty now?
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    I think we was just pointing out that the Americas have a rich heritage that is shared by diverse groups of people. Personally I felt the speech was a little jingoistic and appealed too much to emotion. But I wouldn't crucify the guy over it.

    Like WhatisitNow I don't see how you are getting kumbaye out of this. But even if it were there, why would you find the idea of peaceful co-existence so terrifying? What do you want Obama to do? Would you be happier if he proved his manliness by grabbing a Mexican, ripping open his chest cage and eating his heart? But what do you expect from a guy who held hands with the president of Mexico and the Saudi King...oh wait, that was Bush, not Obama. Sorry.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from movingtarget2. Show movingtarget2's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]The President per usual demeaning his own country and pandering to an ethnic group; " Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land," President Obama told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Whoops, there were no "Mexicans" then, just Spanish subjects, as Mexico as a country was not recognized until 1821. Beyond that, what type of wishy-washy kumbaya statement is that? The British, French, Dutch or Spanish  did not practice 'diversity' back then; they only happened to "share the same land", when they were killing each other on a bloody battlefield.  
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    They were called Mexicans, Bobin.  Mexico was the north american part of New Spain.  But I guess you don't grasp the idea.  Good thing for you there was no Massachusetts until 1789.  But hey, there was no Virgina either.  And there was no Virginia for a few years in the mid-19th century either.  Some would say there really isn;t a Virgina today either, just South Washington and the untamed Hinterlands.

    Asshat.
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shumirules. Show shumirules's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    Obama I am sure thinks that the native americans spoke Spanish.
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Obama I am sure thinks that the native americans spoke Spanish.
    Posted by shumirules[/QUOTE]

    Long before there were 57 states, for sure.
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    Patagonians are "American".  Inuits are "American".  Everyone in between are "American", whether southern, northern, or 'meso-'.

    Either way, the Mayans and Aztecs had some k-a civilizations before Cortez and his rampaging caucasians obliterated them.  This doesn't mean white folks everywhere should be blamed or even held accountable, BUT it does mean that a little historical sensitivity can go a long way. 

    Personally, I don't think any single group's grievance toward the u.s. gubmint trump that of the native american tribes, but that's just me.

    Of course, when ignorant americans still think that columbus (or worse, Jesus H.) 'discovered' america, then what are they supposed to believe...??  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    Obama's speech did channel to a lesser extent the radical leftist white liberal guilt well stated by mattyhorn.

    Gee, not all whites should be blamed or held accountable for colonizing North America. Bully for you, mattyhorn. How dare the human sacrifice of thousands by the Aztecs be interrupted ...

    But weren't the original European settlers 'illegal immigrants' ? They therefore were the Auntie Zenuitis of their day, and deserved free lifetime housing and disability payments from the Native Americans...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sk8ter2008. Show sk8ter2008's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    It was Aztec tribes in the land that is now Mexico in the 12th century. They were conquered by the Spaniards in the 14th. Their largest city was Mexica which is now Mexico City and the land mass was named Mexico.

    Maybe the Mexicans should give it back to people of Aztec lineage.

    just sayin
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Maybe the Mexicans should give it back to people of Aztec lineage. --------------------------- Sorry, they're dead.  Their a handful of Mayans selling silver bracelets in Cancun though.
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]

    The mayans were illegal immigrants from Peru. 8)

    Just kidding, from what I remember the mayans did migrate from Peru but, they brought a lot of culture and survival needs to the region, engineering architecture (pyramids and other structures) they also were intelligent enough to farm for food and commerce.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Obama's speech did channel to a lesser extent the radical leftist white liberal guilt well stated by mattyhorn. Gee, not all whites should be blamed or held accountable for colonizing North America. Bully for you, mattyhorn. How dare the human sacrifice of thousands by the Aztecs be interrupted ... But weren't the original European settlers 'illegal immigrants' ? They therefore were the Auntie Zenuitis of their day, and deserved free lifetime housing and disability payments from the Native Americans...
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    The history isn't about good natives versus corrupt evil invaders. Bad things were done on both sides, and no group was perfect. But again, the point is there is a rich mix of traditions in the americas. That is the point. It isn't just a white story.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : You're off by a few hundred years with respect to the Spanish conquest. In 1521, Spain conquered and colonized the territory, which was administered as the viceroyalty of New Spain which would eventually become Mexico.
    Posted by 12-Angry-Men[/QUOTE]
    Remember that the oldest skull found in NA is of a Caucasian European woman... She was here before any other known people...

    Scientists from Liverpool's John Moores University and Oxford's Research Laboratory of Archaeology have dated the skull to about 13,000 years old, making it 2,000 years older than the previous record for the continent's oldest human remains. However, the most intriguing aspect of the skull is that it is long and narrow and typically Caucasian in appearance, like the heads of white, western Europeans today.
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : Remember that the oldest skull found in NA is of a Caucasian European woman... She was here before any other known people... Scientists from Liverpool's John Moores University and Oxford's Research Laboratory of Archaeology have dated the skull to about 13,000 years old, making it 2,000 years older than the previous record for the continent's oldest human remains. However, the most intriguing aspect of the skull is that it is long and narrow and typically Caucasian in appearance, like the heads of white, western Europeans today.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    I remember reading about this. My understanding is the consensus is still that the clovis culture people (who crossed over from Siberia) were here first. But there are some other arguments out there (I believe still not widely accepted) that they shared the continent with caucasians, and that clovis culture was actually a fusion of the two (I think this is called the Solutrian Hypothesis). But I think that is still not widely accepted. Here is the dissenting view:

    [QUOTE]
    Not every specialist, however, is convinced of the apparently mounting evidence of an early European migration. "I personally haven't found it very convincing," Professor Chris Stringer, the head of human origins at the Natural History Museum in London, said. "For a start, there are lots of examples in archaeology where various artefacts from different parts of the world can end up looking similar even though they have different origins," he said. "Most humans in the world at that time were long headed and it doesn't surprise me that Peñon woman at 13,000 years old is also long headed."[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Obama's speech did channel to a lesser extent the radical leftist white liberal guilt well stated by mattyhorn.
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    Recognizing that in fact other people happened to live on the continent and we killed them is "radical leftist liberal guilt"  You do realize that in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest?    It's simply what did happen.

    It's history.  This isn't high school, and ignorance doesn't make you cool Bob-O.

    I have to wonder if perhaps your type is a threat to our future national security.  Our economic, and hence military, might will not continue forever.  Once it wanes, the world will have little use for a country of snotty as*holes whose greatest pride is not giving a sh*t about anyone else.
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : Recognizing the in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest is "radical leftist liberal guilt"? It's history.  This isn't high school, and ignorance doesn't make you cool Bob-O. 
    Posted by WhatIsItNow[/QUOTE]

    Typical left wing assaults on American Exceptionalism. We didn't exterminate them all deliberately. We simply concentrated them into small tracts of land, camps to concentrate their population if you will, and allowed them to die off either during the moving process or over time naturally. And I ask you, where would the Native American population be today had we not done this? Can anyone here deny that Indian Reservations are as close to heaven as one will get here on earth? I think not! And now you expect us to characterize this as some kind of genocide. Revisionist!
     
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    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]
    Posted by getinvolved[/QUOTE]

    Is that what you made for show and tell?  How cute!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    "You do realize that in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest?    It's simply what did happen. '

    European bad, Native American good....got it. Liberal guilt, diss the U.S.
    The clash of different cultures,  conquest and struggles,  is the story of human history. Native Americans on the continent exterminated others, before they themselves were conquered.

    There were horrible atrocities by the US government in the 1800s , the sin was terrible, Andrew Jackson probably the most guilty.
    But it is not simple. Since I have Native American blood, clearly all were not exterminated;  Native Americans are a part of America.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]"You do realize that in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest?    It's simply what did happen. ' European bad, Native American good....got it. Liberal guilt, diss the U.S. Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]


    Nope, sorry.  It's simply what happened.  You're just being an idiot.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]"You do realize that in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest?    It's simply what did happen. ' European bad, Native American good....got it. Liberal guilt, diss the U.S. The clash of different cultures,  conquest and struggles,  is the story of human history. Native Americans on the continent exterminated others, before they themselves were conquered. There were horrible atrocities by the US government in the 1800s , the sin was terrible, Andrew Jackson probably the most guilty. But it is not simple. Since I have Native American blood, clearly all were not exterminated;  Native Americans are a part of America.
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    Bob, no one is saying it was simple. No one is saying the Europeans were all bad and the natives were all good. But just because both groups were flawed, that doesn't diminish the atrocities our forebears committed. This is true of any historical evil. Evil rarely occurs in a vacuum of simplicity. And I don't think this is about white guilt. This is about being self reflective enough when it comes to our own history to learn from it.
     

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