Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : Typical left wing assaults on American Exceptionalism. We didn't exterminate them all deliberately. We simply concentrated them into small tracts of land, camps to concentrate their population if you will, and allowed them to die off either during the moving process or over time naturally. And I ask you, where would the Native American population be today had we not done this? Can anyone here deny that Indian Reservations are as close to heaven as one will get here on earth? I think not! And now you expect us to characterize this as some kind of genocide. Revisionist!
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    You left out the part about accidentally exterminating the buffalo in order to remove the primary source of food for the plains indians.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    I read that in a 10 year period, the native populations of Central and South America went from 11 million to 1 million.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]I read that in a 10 year period, the native populations of Central and South America went from 11 million to 1 million.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    I read that as well. If true, I think it was more the product of diseases introduced by the Euopreans.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mynameisAugustWest. Show mynameisAugustWest's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Obama I am sure thinks that the native americans spoke Spanish.
    Posted by shumirules[/QUOTE]

    Hopefully you can too, since you clearly struggle forming sentences in English.


    'I'm sure Obama thinks that the Native Americans spoke Spanish'.  Free lesson.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]The President per usual demeaning his own country and pandering to an ethnic group; " Long before America was even an idea, this land of plenty was home to many peoples. The British and French, the Dutch and Spanish, to Mexicans, to countless Indian tribes. We all shared the same land," President Obama told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Whoops, there were no "Mexicans" then, just Spanish subjects, as Mexico as a country was not recognized until 1821. Beyond that, what type of wishy-washy kumbaya statement is that? The British, French, Dutch or Spanish  did not practice 'diversity' back then; they only happened to "share the same land", when they were killing each other on a bloody battlefield.  
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    Maybe that explains the 50+ "states" he talked about during his pre-coronation execrise. You do realize that they had to be SOMEPLACE. East LA hadn't been created yet
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]I have to laugh when some leftwing lunatic tries to argue that we should give amnesty to illegals because the Pilgrims and others came here "illegally". In other words, Native Americans had open borders and gave everyone amnesty. How'd that work out for them??
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    Sure they did... right before they all went to war with each other and erradicated many a smaller tribe off the map. Can't blame 'em... they had to set up their smoke shops someplace. So, just who did what to who?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : My guess is he was saying the people who lived in what would become Mexico (New Spain), since they weren't entirely spanish at that stage (as the spanish mixed more freely with the native popoulation than say the British did in the colonies). In a sense, the people of Mexico, preceded New Spain's independence from Spain. Let me get this straight, acknowledging the historical reality that many people inhabited the americas prior to the creation of the united states is somehow anti american?
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    FIDO! Nice try!

    Tell us who the Mexicans stole their land from? You know, the occupiers that the Spaniards took care of (Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas). Think that maybe, JUST maybe, that THEY stole it from someone else by way of war and genocide, the simplest way to eliminate to enemy?

    Naw! That stuf is only reserved for us nasty Anglo Eurpoeans. All that stuff that happened before the Pilgrims got here or before our expansion westward never happened. All those tribes sat around, pssing the peace pipe around, group hugging, refelcting how the Braves would beat the Indians, and chanting Kumbaya (they never could sing). Even the Mexicans were interlopers, as they stole the land from the Spanish. So, who gets this world then /> Who is the true owner? (Caution, be careful....)

    Funny how Big Ears' revisionist history reflection didn't consider that as having to take place. He was better off trying to come up with the names of his 51st-57th states (AND capitals; gotta have the capitals ya know, to get full credit).
    A good spin would be him having a cocaine moment relapse. Well, at least that would explain a lot.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]Patagonians are "American".  Inuits are "American".  Everyone in between are "American", whether southern, northern, or 'meso-'. Either way, the Mayans and Aztecs had some k-a civilizations before Cortez and his rampaging caucasians obliterated them.  This doesn't mean white folks everywhere should be blamed or even held accountable, BUT it does mean that a little historical sensitivity can go a long way.  Personally, I don't think any single group's grievance toward the u.s. gubmint trump that of the native american tribes, but that's just me. Of course, when ignorant americans still think that columbus (or worse, Jesus H.) 'discovered' america, then what are they supposed to believe...??  
    Posted by Mattyhorn[/QUOTE]

    Here's your test:

    Q If the Aztecs and Mayans had "K A" civilizations before Cortez and the Vatos arrived, tell us who's "A" they "K'd" to get so all powerful? Could the same iltellectual diplomacy they obviously used be used in the Palestinain/Israeli situation? Somalia? seeing how it was so wonderfal, all emcompassing, and without bloodshed, right? 

    BONUS QUESTION:  Why is it that history revisionists insist on stopping at what the Euros did to the New World natives, and not consider what THEY did to their adversaries?  Could it be that that portion of the discussion doesn't meet to your socio-political views, therefore it never happened? Which way do you want it?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : Recognizing that in fact other people happened to live on the continent and we killed them is "radical leftist liberal guilt"  You do realize that in fact, in history, Europeans inadvertantly killed off most native americans through disease, and then deliberately exterminated the rest?    It's simply what did happen. It's history.  This isn't high school, and ignorance doesn't make you cool Bob-O. I have to wonder if perhaps your type is a threat to our future national security.  Our economic, and hence military, might will not continue forever.  Once it wanes, the world will have little use for a country of snotty as*holes whose greatest pride is not giving a sh*t about anyone else.
    Posted by WhatIsItNow[/QUOTE]

    And your failure to discuss or even consider how the tribes Euros encountered
    when they got here got in "power". Like those wacky Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans. Was nobody home when they decided to settle where they eventually did? In other words, absolutely nothing bad happened in the New World before the Spaniards and other Euros got here, right? It was all big, bright 60's flowers, lots of background music by The Partridge Family and The Cowsils (or was that Muzak?), huge pot lucks every Saturday night, and lots of "sharing"?

    Too bad to see youre still stuck in junior high. As foir our economic and military might? You're absolutely right. As long as Obamaramadingdong and his ilk have the keys to the Wh, we're all at risk from both dangers. As for the rest of the world? How pius do you think they are? It's proven that EVERY country was settled by tribes that stole it from an enemy, who stole it from an enemy, who stole it from an enemy. Perhaps they need to wipe off their own noses before passing judgement.

    BTW: I don't give a rat's pitute about what the rest of the world thinks. If it wasn't for the US, all Europe would be called Germany, and the Far East would have the Rising Sun as their national flag. No one was going to be able to stop them; not England, not Russia.  NO ONE BUT THE USA. Then, of course, at that point we were just about everyone's friend that was on teh business end of the stick vs the Third Reich and Japan.  My, how convenient!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]I read that in a 10 year period, the native populations of Central and South America went from 11 million to 1 million.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    PUDDLES! Good to see you haven't evaporated or something/

    These numbers were undoubtedly accumulated by Obamaramadingdong's union run census takers. But, using his logic, 1 million were "saved" by that activity, whatever it was.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

    Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”

    In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.”:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama: “Mexicans” Were Here “Long Before America Was Even An Idea.” : FIDO! Nice try! Tell us who the Mexicans stole their land from? You know, the occupiers that the Spaniards took care of (Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas). Think that maybe, JUST maybe, that THEY stole it from someone else by way of war and genocide, the simplest way to eliminate to enemy? [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I said so in my post. Never said it was simple, or that the natives were all good and the euros were all bad. But that still doesn't justify what we did to the native americans later on. And Mexicans are the descendants of both spaniards and the natives. The spaniards mixed with the local population.

    [QUOTE]Naw! That stuf is only reserved for us nasty Anglo Eurpoeans. All that stuff that happened before the Pilgrims got here or before our expansion westward never happened. All those tribes sat around, pssing the peace pipe around, group hugging, refelcting how the Braves would beat the Indians, and chanting Kumbaya (they never could sing). Even the Mexicans were interlopers, as they stole the land from the Spanish. So, who gets this world then /> Who is the true owner? (Caution, be careful....) Funny how Big Ears' revisionist history reflection didn't consider that as having to take place. He was better off trying to come up with the names of his 51st-57th states (AND capitals; gotta have the capitals ya know, to get full credit). A good spin would be him having a cocaine moment relapse. Well, at least that would explain a lot.
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    No one is saying we don't own the land, or that we need to give the land back to any group because of something that happened two hundred years ago. All people are calling for is a realistic understanding of our own history, one that includes the warts as well.

    AZPAT, as usual you sound like a moron, because you aren't even bother to read the content of our posts. You see a few key words and react to that, rather than our specific points. I guess we shouldn't talk about slavery as a bad thing either, because back in Africa the would be slaves engaged in war and occassionally in slavery, right? I guess talking about the holocaust, we shouldn't sympathize with the Jews too much, because Jews in palestine at the time were fighting with the arabs. No one is denying that European civilization produced some very good things (things that the right in this country often wants nothing to do with by the way). But no civilization is perfect. And our forebears engaged in exploitative practices, as well as imperialistic ones. Heck this country was founded on an anti-imperialist notion. Part of our hertitage is to reject some of the things European civilization engaged in.

    Here is the key AZPAT, understanding history isn't like masterbation. It's not about making yourself feel good. It is about understanding the past as clearly as possible. As objectively as possible. It is not about constructing a narrative that aids patriotism, or assists the self esteem of our nation. Nor is it, by the way, about how bad the Europeans were and how good the natives were. These are all morally simplistic and historically simplicistic understands of history. If you want to learn from history, you need to understand it with an open mind.

    By the way, I will agree with you that guys like Howard Zinn go way too far. He looked at history through a specific lens, that ended up distorting his interpretation of events. His justification was, that the history of the powerful had already been written and was the standard narrative, so a history of the powerless was a needed balance. Personally I think it just shifted the pendulum the other way. But that style of history isn't really being taught in higher education any more. That really was more of a baby boomer thing. Hegel's thesis, antithesi, synthesis is at work here. We went from one extreme to another and are moving into much more balanced terrain. Today's serious historians, are far less political than the historians who were active 30 years ago.

    So you can rail against appologists, revisionists, activist historians all you want. The fact is you are ralling against a fad that expired long ago. Now you'll still find that mentality in lots of critical studies departments. In lots of English departments, etc. But you won't find it in abundance in History departments.Just like no one takes marxist historians seriously any more. They don't take leftist or rightist historians seriously anymore. Grand theory, activism and the linguistic turn, have all left the building.
     

Share