Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : There there.  You have to keep trying if you'll ever succeed.  Here, I'll give you a second change to read it: "PS:  This one takes the cake: "You were arguing against analogies as if they were real. That's sad." In a debate, if person X uses an analogy to support his argument, then person Y can undermine the argument by showing why the analogy doesn't work. I'm sorry that escaped you.  I agree we need to fix American education, but that's for another thread."   Right.  But we didn't throw out our nukes.  They have just as much reason to guess now as they did before.  Of course, you don't have a single country to offer as a likely "they."
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    And yet you STILL didn't undermine the analogy with your argument. Keep repeating what you said all you want but that won't change your failure. Sorry!

    Um...I've already stated a non-nuclear country would not attack us. What part of that did you not get?
    But there are other nuke holding countries that could. Not likely but I've learned to never say never.
    But again, it's not about an actual country with no nukes attacking us. It's about the fact that there's just really no need to going around announcing strategies. What is strategy of every country that has nukes? Do you know?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Oh of course it wasn't necessary.  I'll agree to that in a heartbeat.  Just some slightly miscalculated political showmanship.    I'm just going after anyone like macnh, who seems to think that Obama just endangered us by showing that he's a wuss. I say it was miscalculated because Obama just doesn't seem to grasp the capacity of Americans for breath-taking stupidity...aka...anyone who seriously thinks that this announcement somehow endangers America.
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    Then why the fcuk are you arguing with me. Been saying the same damn thing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    there are other nuke holding countries that could. Not likely but I've learned to never say never. Posted by hawkeye01


    The announcement was that the promise only applied to countries without nukes.

    You think Obama somehow made a no-no by announcing this policy, because no one is ever supposed to announce a "strategy." 

    I counter by arguing that there is no identifiable country that could possibly be made more likely to attack us by the announcement.

    You tell me that I am being naive and snarky.

    You continue to insist that Obama somehow made a no-no by announcing this policy, because no one is ever supposed to announce a "strategy." 

    You then ask why I am arguing with you.

    This is pointless.  I'm talking to a retard*d dining room table. 




    One last time:  I am arguing with you because you think that this is somehow a bad revelation of strategy. I am arguing because I disagree with that assertion.  I think it was neither good nor bad - it is completely harmless and irrelevant to world events.

    The only "bad" thing about it is that it gives morons another false talking point to bray about - that Obama is a weak socialist.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : The announcement was that the promise only applied to countries without nukes. This is pointless.  I'm talking to a retard*d dining room table. 
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    Based on the article I read it was only N. Korea and Iran that were exceptions. He also announced limiting new nukes. Well, if other countries dont...Ok toughguy?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Based on the article I read it was only N. Korea and Iran that were exceptions. Ok toughguy?
    Posted by hawkeye01


    The relevant portion of the article was exerpted earlier in the thread:

    "the United States is explicitly committing not to use nuclear weapons against nonnuclear states that are in compliance with the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, even if they attacked the United States with biological or chemical weapons or launched a crippling cyberattack. "

    BUT "the new strategy would include the option of reconsidering the use of nuclear retaliation against a biological attack, if the development of such weapons reached a level that made the United States vulnerable to a devastating strike." 

    AND
    "Mr. Obama rejected the formulation sought by arms control advocates to declare that the “sole role” of nuclear weapons is to deter a nuclear attack. "

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html?hp


    Also, "But the president said in an interview that he was carving out an exception for “outliers like Iran and North Korea” that have violated or renounced the main treaty to halt nuclear proliferation."

    Iran and Korea were examples. 




    He's not being naive at all about this.  He's promising not to nuke a hypothetical country we wouldn't nuke in any foreseeable circumstnaces, he's being clear that there are non-ennumerated exceptions to the promise, and he's being clear that we might just change our mind.

    If keeping people guessing is a good thing, then I think you have to agree that he played his cards and did better than if he kept them close to his chest.....

    Unless this is some sort of threat to bomb Iran if they don't stop trying to get nukes or a threat to nuke them if they get and use nukes...I don't know what it's suppose to be.  I don't like it, since when I read the article, my first thought was "great...as if tea partiers needed another nonsense rallying cry"



    As for limiting new nukes, we don't need them.  Yet.  I seriously doubt this is going as far as simply throwing out all our nukes and not building any.  If it approaches that, then I will vote for a republican to build some new nukes at the next chance I have.  In the meanwhile, we aren't getting invaded.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Ok. The relevant portion of the article was exerpted earlier in the thread: "the United States is explicitly committing not to use nuclear weapons against nonnuclear states that are in compliance with the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, even if they attacked the United States with biological or chemical weapons or launched a crippling cyberattack. " BUT "the new strategy would include the option of reconsidering the use of nuclear retaliation against a biological attack, if the development of such weapons reached a level that made the United States vulnerable to a devastating strike."  AND "Mr. Obama rejected the formulation sought by arms control advocates to declare that the “sole role” of nuclear weapons is to deter a nuclear attack. " http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html?hp
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    That's different than the article I had read earlier.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ltown1. Show Ltown1's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : You can sleep well at night knowing that he simply doesn't have the balls.
    Posted by ItsATravesty


    He had the balls to shove the health care bill but the behinds of the GOP.  



     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    Anybody with half a brain knows not to announce to your present or possible adversaries what your limits will be in the event of a conflict.

    That is the point of my argument.  Obama defies common sense and ignores human nature.  For such a smart guy, he's not that bright.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    Anybody with half a brain knows not to announce to your present or possible adversaries what your limits will be in the event of a conflict. That is the point of my argument.  Obama defies common sense and ignores human nature.  For such a smart guy, he's not that bright.
    Posted by macnh1



    Oh I see, you're argument is that you're right because you say that you are right.  Well, we're convinced now!


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    Who cares abot nukes!  Which line do I stand in for my free stuff from Obama?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItsATravesty. Show ItsATravesty's posts

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    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    Who cares abot nukes!  Which line do I stand in for my free stuff from Obama?
    Posted by skeeter20

    Sorry son... you don't qualify.
    You have a job
    You have a home
    You have health insurance
    You saved your money

    We have to take care of the 'other' folks (intentionally did not say Americans).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Sorry son... you don't qualify. You have a job You have a home You have health insurance You saved your money We have to take care of the 'other' folks (intentionally did not say Americans).
    Posted by ItsATravesty


    WHAT!?!?!?  NO FREE STUFF FROM OBAMA!?!?!?

    who's going to pay my mortgage?  Who is going to put gas in my car?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Oh I see, you're argument is that you're right because you say that you are right.  Well, we're convinced now!
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    How am I not right???
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Oh I see, you're argument is that you're right because you say that you are right.  Well, we're convinced now!
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    Ok, what's Russia's policy? How about China's? How about ANY country that has nukes? Do you know any countries policy? Other than the US of course.
    It's widely know, except for yourself, that militarily you NEVER show your hand. You NEVER take options off the table. Logically speaking it makes no sense never mind militarily.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

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    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : How am I not right???
    Posted by macnh1


    Reread the posts in pages 1-3 of this thread. That's why you're wrong
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Ok, what's Russia's policy? How about China's? How about ANY country that has nukes? Do you know any countries policy? Other than the US of course. It's widely know, except for yourself, that militarily you NEVER show your hand. You NEVER take options off the table. Logically speaking it makes no sense never mind militarily.
    Posted by hawkeye01


    The option isn't off the table.  It's in the article I previously quoted. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : The option isn't off the table.  It's in the article I previously quoted. 
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    And if that was what I was talking about you'd have an EXCELLENT point. However, it wasn't what I was talking about so you don't have much of a point at all. 
    The option of holding our card close to the vest is certainly off the table. But it's been repeated to you and you still don't seem to grasp it. I'm done. Giving me a frickin headache
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : And if that was what I was talking about you'd have an EXCELLENT point. However, it wasn't what I was talking about so you don't have much of a point at all. Obviously it ain't getting through to you. Time to move on as you're giving me a headache.
    Posted by hawkeye01


    Man you're a joke.  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

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    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Man you're a joke.  
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    Thanks for proving my point
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : And if that was what I was talking about you'd have an EXCELLENT point. However, it wasn't what I was talking about so you don't have much of a point at all.  The option of holding our card close to the vest is certainly off the table. But it's been repeated to you and you still don't seem to grasp it. I'm done. Giving me a frickin headache
    Posted by hawkeye01


    ROFL.  The option of holding our card close to the vest is off the table?  What kind of idiot are you?  

    The announcement was non-committal.  He explicitly stated that we'd reconsider if we wanted to. 

    And as I've patiently tried to explain to this retard*d dining room table, the way the promise is crafted shows it doesn't actually apply to any real country.

    1.  A country without nuclear weapons
    2.  That is in compliance with the non-proliferation treaty.
    3.  That is not North Korea, Iran, or any other country "like" them.
    4.  That for some unknown reason attacks us.

    If such a country exists, then yes, we have shown them our cards by telling them we won't nuke them.  Oh wait, but we will if we decide they are "like" Iran or North Korea.  And we will nuke them if we decide to "reconsider" the promise.

    Damn we're so locked down!  We showed them the whole game plan!  ROFLMAO.



    But you just can't engage in that thought process.  All you can say is that I am stupid because your repeated assertion that "you never show your cards" - completely divorced from the actual facts - proves that Obama showed his cards and is thus bad.

    Again, can you even begin to describe what cards we've shown?  No. Because we haven't shown any. You can't point to a country that anyone has any reason to believe meets #1-4 




    I mean do you honestly think that if it were absolutely necessary to use a nuke despite the promise, that Obama wouldn't do it because he'd remember the promis?  Really?

    Well if against all probability you believe that he would consider himself "bound" by the promise no matter what, you would also have to remember that he left himself two outs anyway:

    1.  Calling a country "like" Iran or North Korea exempts the country from the promise.

    2.  "Reconsidering" the promise allows him to withdraw it.

    Obama gave up the "option" of keeping our cards close to our vest?  Swing and miss.  I can't believe you're actually disputing THAT point.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : ROFL.  The option of holding our card close to the vest is off the table?  What kind of idiot are you?   The announcement was non-committal.  He explicitly stated that we'd reconsider if we wanted to.  And as I've patiently tried to explain to this retard*d dining room table, the way the promise is crafted shows it doesn't actually apply to any real country. 1.  A country without nuclear weapons 2.  That is in compliance with the non-proliferation treaty. 3.  That is not North Korea, Iran, or any other country "like" them. 4.  That for some unknown reason attacks us. If such a country exists, then yes, we have shown them our cards by telling them we won't nuke them.  Oh wait, but we will if we decide they are "like" Iran or North Korea.  And we will nuke them if we decide to "reconsider" the promise. Damn we're so locked down!  We showed them the whole game plan!  ROFLMAO. But you just can't engage in that thought process.  All you can say is that I am stupid because your repeated assertion that "you never show your cards" - completely divorced from the actual facts - proves that Obama showed his cards and is thus bad. Again, can you even begin to describe what cards we've shown?  No. Because we haven't shown any. You can't point to a country that anyone has any reason to believe meets #1-4  I mean do you honestly think that if it were absolutely necessary to use a nuke despite the promise, that Obama wouldn't do it because he'd remember the promis?  Really? Well if against all probability you believe that he would consider himself "bound" by the promise no matter what, you would also have to remember that he left himself two outs anyway: 1.  Calling a country "like" Iran or North Korea exempts the country from the promise. 2.  "Reconsidering" the promise allows him to withdraw it. Obama gave up the "option" of keeping our cards close to our vest?  Swing and miss.  I can't believe you're actually disputing THAT point.
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    Ah yes more insults. You've already lost the argument when you resort to such low tactics
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Ah yes more insults. You've already lost the argument when you resort to such low tactics
    Posted by hawkeye01


    "Such low tactics"?  Right.  You have never insulted me.  Ok...     

    Since you're just going to play games......
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!:
    In Response to Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!! : Indeed, my good sir.  Those low tactics you would never, ever, engage in. 
    Posted by WhatIsItNow


    You're right I wouldn't. When have I resorted to insulting you with name calling? When have I ever called you stupid or retarded? 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickrand3. Show rickrand3's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    macnh1 GREAT POST!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tristelune. Show tristelune's posts

    Re: Obama NO nukes when defending America!!!

    So if a non-nuclear country attack US with non-nuclear weapon, we will retaliate with non-nuclear weapon. If a nuclear country attack using non-neclear weapons, we still retaliate using non-nuclear weapon. If a nuclear country attack with nuclear weapon, it violate the non-proliferation treaty therefore qualify for a nuclear retaliation. Then of course, you have those country that goes into the exception list. So......... what's wrong?
     

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